did he just say they are developing the FW190?

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Well P-51 was vastly superior... in number... :lol:

 

But you're right, still many people think of a really superior to everything P-51, and that's untrue historically. Last versions of Fw190A, and not so say last versions of Bf109 were fairly superior to P-51D, a model that didn't changed in deep from 1944 to Korea, while 190 and 109 had dozens of versions till the end of war, although in small numbers. If we have a real hardcore simulation here we'll see that and I guess ED would never do such a thing but hope not to find anything biased like Il-2 to give pleasure who says other aircraft were superior. And, just for clarifying, I enjoy P-51 really much and would enjoy any other WWII thing.

 

S!

[swe_badger]

DCS: Me-262, now that's something I'd like to see, engine faults and all! :)

[Krupi]

DCS: Hawker Typhoon/Tempest :P maybe one day but a spit and 109 should come after the 190 :)

 

I really hope Eagle dynamics slowly increase there non jet aicraft range, I have a feeling BoS is going to disappoint me in regards to the level of CEM. MG's Oleg and Luthier showed what they really had intended for the second generation il2 and unfortunately I don't think the new owners of the il2 franchise have quite the same vision :cry:

[Krupi]

Guys I could do with some help here if you have any advice...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1658054#post1658054

 

The game still runs quite smooth, I was surprised how low the fps was.

[LcSummers]

D-13 was always my favorite variant. Gorgeous! :)

 

 

 

Yes, best one D-11 or D-13, thats what i hope for.

 

I know its a dream but never mind. Dont want to have one of the A versions, were to slow and to heavy at higher altitudes, therefore the D-9 came in with beautiful Jumo 213A Engine.

 

D-11 and D-13 with a Jumo 213F. What a monster!!!!

 

S!

Edited January 22, 2013 by LcSummers

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

hey hey Carlo!

good to see that you heard the news as well.cant wait to build our 6./JG26 with DCS crates!

Flex purchased the P51 as well already waiting for the 190.

...so in the meantime we could use our time with flying the Mustang and study the enemy until the real thing arrives :)

 

@Krupi...well BOS seems only to become a dissapointment in regards of realism at least.i always hoped that the sequel of CLOD would become closer to realism(at least giving correct start up proceedures).now CLOD is dead, and its "sequel" will be inferiour in every section....at least thats what the devs seem to say...so for me thats definitely a no go...im not interested in kids toys.

...but a FW as detailed as DCS's P51 would really make a dream come true...and just like i said a few weeks already here in this forum...i can feel that people switch from 1c to DCS.

 

all i regret is, that i didnt purchase the P51 or the A10 way earlier already...

in regards of realism and functionality, DCS world is a godsend gift, when you are used to CLOD....dynamic weather anyone?

[Echo38]

let's hope they continue building up these flying legends and eventually release a ww2 version of flaming cliffs, that's my DCS dream

 

A WWII version of Flaming Cliffs? The world has more than enough medium-fidelity WWII flight sim-games, I should think. If all you want is a game like FC set in WWII (a much lower standard than DCS: P-51D) then all you need to do is wait for the next IL-2. As for myself, I hope that E.D. keeps their WWII aircraft as high of quality as the A-10 and P-51 are, instead of selling out and half-heartedly throwing out a bunch of less-than-realistic ersatz like Maddox & 777.

 

: /

Edited January 22, 2013 by Echo38

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

^^

+1 :thumbup:

Edited January 22, 2013 by 9./JG27 DavidRed

[NineLine]

A WWII version of Flaming Cliffs? The world has more than enough less-than-realistic WWII flight sim-games, I should think. Indeed, that's is what the next IL-2 game is intended to be like. So if all you want is a game like FC but set in WWII, all you need to do is wait for the next IL-2. As for myself, I hope that E.D. keeps their WWII aircraft as high of quality as the A-10 and P-51 are, and doesn't sell out and half-heartedly throw out a bunch of less-than-realistic ones like Maddox & 777.

 

: /

 

Oh I dont know, the idea has merit, I mean I love the P-51, and would love to have more WWII aircraft that are that complex.... that said the wait time is quite painful :) a set of aircraft with SFM released as another module... i'd get behind that. Flaming Cliffs of Dover if you will ;)

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

i would prefer the wait to get a plane on DCS level than to wait +6years to get a doezen half baked bugged planes to hit the i key....

[NineLine]

i would prefer the wait to get a plane on DCS level than to wait +6years to get a doezen half baked bugged planes to hit the i key....

 

I dont think Flaming Cliffs is half baked...

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

ok you are probably right....all i want to see avoided is the CLOD fiasco again...

and i personally switched, because of the realism DCS provides with the A10 or the Mustang, and nothing else.

[Echo38]

i would prefer the wait to get a plane on DCS level than to wait +6years to get a doezen half baked bugged planes to hit the i key....

 

Precisely--I mean, haven't we already got enough of those? Warbirds, Aces High, IL-2 Sturmovik & Forgotten Battles, and now the new IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad thing ... and that's just WWII. Do we really need yet another of these survey sims which lack high-fidelity modelling?

 

Because, Krupi and Sithspawn, that's what you're asking for. A survey sim which is incomplete in its modelling of each aircraft. Again, if you're content with something like that, then just get the new IL-2 game when it comes out, and you should be happy. That's a pretty a low standard for a DCS fanatic--I'm guessing you don't much care for DCS: P-51D on maximum realism settings, no?

 

I dont think Flaming Cliffs is half baked...

 

Half-baked means "incomplete." Flaming Cliffs is an incomplete simulation of the aircraft featured, and is intended to be so (for the "broader audience," you know). There really isn't much room for debate here: I don't see how you can call it "complete" or "accurate" if the entire engine start-up procedure is missing. Incomplete & inaccurate fits the term "half-baked," in my book.

 

P-51D, on the other hand, is approximately as complete and accurate of a simulation of the P-51D as one could possibly hope for on the P.C. It isn't 100% perfect, but I can't expect it to be. A-10C and P-51D are of the very highest standard of flight simulation that the world has ever seen, at least on a personal computer. This is the standard that makes Eagle Dynamics stand out from the myriad of lesser developers, and if they lower their standards--appealing to a "lower common denominator"--that's going to be very disappointing.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Echo38

[NineLine]

ok you are probably right....all i want to see avoided is the CLOD fiasco again...

and i personally switched, because of the realism DCS provides with the A10 or the Mustang, and nothing else.

 

Oh, I dont think we will see anything like what happened with CLOD here... and as I said, I prefer the AFM planes from DCS... but I am also impatient... so maybe some SFM planes to round things out... I would be ok with that as long as AFM legends continued to be developed as well.

[NineLine]

 

Half-baked means "incomplete." Flaming Cliffs is an incomplete simulation of the aircraft featured, and is intended to be so (for the "broader audience," you know). There really isn't much room for debate here: I don't see how you can call it "complete" or "accurate" if the entire engine start-up procedure is missing.

 

I enjoy Flaming Cliffs for different reasons than I enjoy the A-10 or P-51. But I enjoy them both the same. Saying Flaming Cliffs is half baked is only reasonable if they promised us the same complexity that we see with A-10, P-51 etc... SO no, FC3 isnt half backed, its a lower fidelity, but is enjoyable to fly from time to time.. personally not as rewarding as the AFM stuff... but it helps add to the the DCS World environment... Take all the planes from FC3, add AFM development time and it would be a shame to think how long we might have to wait for what they already add to the environment... IMHO.

 

So apply that to WWII, give me a few SFM bombers, maybe some fighters, just to tide me over... now I have a richer WWII experience while I wait for the next AFM Legends plane, whenever, and whatever it might be. DCS WOrld would only benefit, it certainly wouldnt be hurt.

[Echo38]

a few SFM bombers, maybe some fighters, just to tide me over... now I have a richer WWII experience while I wait for the next AFM Legends plane, whenever, and whatever it might be. DCS WOrld would only benefit, it certainly wouldnt be hurt.

 

My concern is that if there were a bunch of simplified aircraft released, then we would never get high-fidelity versions of those aircraft, "because those aircraft are already there." Again, what you ask for already exists, or nearly so. No need to ruin something special by demanding that it be made into something common, especially when there's already lots of that common stuff around. Y'know?

[NineLine]

My concern is that if there were a bunch of simplified aircraft released, then we would never get high-fidelity versions of those aircraft, "because those aircraft are already there."

 

I dont know where the basis of that concern comes from? If you lay the foundation, why cant you build from it?

 

I understand what you are saying though... but I dont think that needs to be a concern.

[mjeh]

My concern is that if there were a bunch of simplified aircraft released, then we would never get high-fidelity versions of those aircraft, "because those aircraft are already there."

 

Like the A-10A? Certainly ED wouldn't make a high fidelity A-10 simulator when it was already there... :smilewink:

 

I don't understand where your pessimism comes from, in the video it was stated by Wags (producer) the FW-190 is the "next DCS Flying Legends aircraft". For now we have one DCS Flying Legends aircraft out, the P-51D, so if that's the standard that the FW is built to then things look rather bright IMO

[Echo38]

I dont know where the basis of that concern comes from? If you lay the foundation, why cant you build from it?

 

Out of all of the aircraft ever half-simulated (by any developer), how many of them were ever completed? Even Eagle Dynamics doesn't typically do this, although the A-10 is an exception. We had a half-sim one in LO:MAC, and then later got a full-sim DCS one, but this is--to the best of my knowledge--the only time in history that this has ever happened. None of the other half-sim aircraft by E.D. (F-15, MiG-29, Su-25, etc.) got made into a full-sim title. They remain partially-simulated. Hence my worry.

 

I don't understand where your pessimism comes from

 

The hardcore flight sim market is the grimmest thing I could imagine for a software developer. I regard the existence of DCS: P-51 and DCS: A-10C as something of a miracle. While I have more confidence in Eagle Dynamics than I do in any other flight sim developer, by a long shot, it is still far from certain that they will be able to continue to adhere to their high standards set with A-10C and P-51D. The release of Flaming Cliffs 3, with its much lower standard, is not encouraging--while I understand that it was a sound business decision, it is nonetheless--from the perspective of a hardcore simmer--a large step backwards.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Echo38

[NineLine]

Out of all of the aircraft ever half-simulated, how many of them were ever completed? Even Eagle Dynamics doesn't typically do this, although the A-10 is an exception. We had a half-sim one in LO:MAC, and then later got a full-sim DCS one, but this is--to the best of my knowledge--the only time in history that this has ever happened. None of the other half-sim aircraft by E.D. (F-15, MiG-29, Su-27, etc.) got made into a "full" title. They remain partially-simulated. Hence my worry.

 

Well we dont know the reasons behind why the do this or that, but there are clues to why. Available information, legal reasons, time constraints, etc. I think if ED has the option, they would rather build to the level of the A-10C, the fact that they gave us more to play with in FC3 certainly isnt a reason to assume they arent committed to providing the best simulation out there. I enjoy having the F-15C while I wait for the next DCS plane.

 

Personally I know the struggles to research WWII planes, and I am not talking the stuff you can find on the internet, but the real meat and taters... the wind tunnel data, etc. SO I feel like I understand in some small way (very small) what it takes to get to the AFM level airplane... I am ok with them throwing out a couple SFM to tide us over if they were to choose to do that.

[Echo38]

Well, I suppose this is an "agree to disagree" thing. P-51D and A-10C have opened my eyes--I can't be happy with anything less. I won't even fly the half-sim Su-25 in World. Spending resources on the development of titles with anything less than the A-10C / P-51D standard is--to me--regrettable.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Echo38

[NineLine]

Well, I suppose this is an "agree to disagree" thing. P-51D and A-10C have opened my eyes--I can't be happy with anything less. Any resources spent on developing something other than more titles of that standard is--to me--regrettable.

 

Fair enough... and I agree to the extent of reason :)

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Well, I suppose this is an "agree to disagree" thing. P-51D and A-10C have opened my eyes--I can't be happy with anything less. I won't even fly the half-sim Su-25 in World. Spending resources on the development of titles with anything less than the A-10C / P-51D standard is--to me--regrettable.

 

 

^^

this...DCS made me addicted...anything less realistic wouldnt give me the high anymore:)

[Krupi]

Wooow hang on guys let me elaborate what I meant!

 

By a Flaming Cliffs ww2 sim I only meant that we can get a lot of ww2 aircraft of all types quickly and ground vehicles.

 

Then from then on cockpits could be created with the fidelity of the P-51 etc... Of course I would love to have every aircraft with the CEM of the P-51 but that would take ages, this way they would get a nice income and those that want to purchase a good CEM for there aircraft can over time.

 

Perhaps its a flawed idea, but hey they already do it with flaming cliffs don't they?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Krupi

[hegykc]

DCS: Crack cocaine

 

It will ruin everything else for you, but it feels goooood :)