Post your TACVIEW dogfights.. Help us become better

WildBillKelsoe · January 25, 2013

I'm starting this thread after getting 'precision' nailed by AI. If you have TACVIEW, post your victories (and wounds) here...

Thing is, AI is using a SFM, therefore, no way in hell, would we be able to mimic the devilish maneuvers it performs, at least without a buffet, a stall, or worst case, a splash....

But as far as human vs human behaviour, well... it is certainly a challenge.. At least both use AFM... so no weird looking, hate provoking maneuvers down this isle...

Oh, and btw, I've been practicing M-64 bombings lately. I've come up with a 40-55 dive angle, 400 kts speed, and sideslip elimination just before the dive. All these can deliver within 50 meters, and the blast will take care of the rest... Speaking of M-64's, are they as ballistic (explosive power, not trajectory) as Mk-82's of A-10C? So long as you have the targets with gyro inside the pipper, and the aim off distance is close to FPM on final, the results are amazing!!

Konrad Friedrich · January 25, 2013

Ah... another victim... :D

WildBillKelsoe · January 26, 2013

I take it you're the tick a claymore produces just before going off in COD? Cuz that's how I feel with AI. 19 flights in 2 days. not one splashed AI. Outrageous.

WildBillKelsoe · January 26, 2013

I've come up with an idea: edit the mission. strip AI from all ammo. This is the best practice yet.. today, I jammed my flaps at 20 by overspeed. couldn't 'get in the saddle' with the AI more so... I think I'll skip AI engagement for the moment.. Funny thing is, I followed him back to Novoryssk and schwacked him as he was taxiing to parking area. The voice of wags came to life...

Fakum · January 26, 2013

[quote=

Oh, and btw, I've been practicing M-64 bombings lately. I've come up with a 40-55 dive angle, 400 kts speed, and sideslip elimination just before the dive. All these can deliver within 50 meters, and the blast will take care of the rest...

What is your altitude before you start your dive?

Konrad Friedrich · January 26, 2013

19 flights in 2 days. not one splashed AI. Outrageous.

I shot him down 35 times in the last two weeks...

But don't ask how hard it was... grrrgghhh... :furious:

The only good thing with our perky bastard AI is that he really keeps you on your toes and you learn to fly as hard and precise as you possibly can...

The thing that bothers me most is not it's extremely precision flight abilites - it's the fact that he refuses to fall down even when heavily damaged...

I also found that a final kill shot appears to be only possible when you hit him from behind.

Whereas head-on gun hits seem to have little or no effect...

Unfortunately it drives away newbies that may come from CoD or RoF or whatever.

Konrad Friedrich · January 26, 2013

strip AI from all ammo.

Forget it. ;)

The AI does not fight without ammo.

He just will avoid you.

Our daring AI hotshot is smart enough to play the coward at the right time.

It really is even more annoying to get him down because you'll need a long time to get in shooting range. :joystick:

And then there is still the fact that the players gun are apparently loaded with peas... :mad:

Sigh... it feels like throwing cotton balls at him... :cry:

WildBillKelsoe · January 26, 2013

What is your altitude before you start your dive?

10K ft.

Fakum · January 26, 2013

Thanks,, was running some practice myself the other day, found 6-7 k was adequate, but didnt give me really enough time to line up and monitor side slip, but I suppose that would get better over time. 10k would seem to allow for more alignment, but for multiple passes, I find that its tough to get back to that altitude in short time.

WildBillKelsoe · January 26, 2013

Thanks,, was running some practice myself the other day, found 6-7 k was adequate, but didnt give me really enough time to line up and monitor side slip, but I suppose that would get better over time. 10k would seem to allow for more alignment, but for multiple passes, I find that its tough to get back to that altitude in short time.

15 k ft also is nice.. Generally higher than 10,000 ft, around 2 nm, set rpm to 2400 and throttle to 31 in hg , correct sideslip as you rollout, put the gyro on the cross and on the target and release BOTH bombs. I don't like releasing singles for the balance is annoying afterwards.

Break maneuver is using rolls only without ailerons..

I can post a quick video if you want.

Fakum · January 27, 2013

I would like to see your video, thanks

Suchacz · January 27, 2013

I'm starting this thread after getting 'precision' nailed by AI. If you have TACVIEW, post your victories (and wounds) here...

Back on topic please! I'm interested too :thumbup:

recoilfx · January 28, 2013

This is the modified 1 vs 1 mission with the AI set to excellent.

General points for medium/low attitude fights:

Open your rads manually

Keep the speed up to cool engine

Turn at > 200mph, keep looking at the speedometer!

Horizontal scissor seems to work very well, use combat flaps when you have speed

Shoot first at merge, it'll scare the the AI to not fire!

I can't figure out how to actually beat the AI energy wise, so I just learn how to out gun him :)

In the first few minutes, i actually lost the ai due to sun glare, so if i looked aimless, it is because I was :)

p51d-1vs1-ai-excellent.zip

1vs1hard.trk

WildBillKelsoe · January 30, 2013

This is the modified 1 vs 1 mission with the AI set to excellent.

General points for medium/low attitude fights:
Open your rads manually
Keep the speed up to cool engine
Turn at > 200mph, keep looking at the speedometer!
Horizontal scissor seems to work very well, use combat flaps when you have speed
Shoot first at merge, it'll scare the the AI to not fire!

I can't figure out how to actually beat the AI energy wise, so I just learn how to out gun him :)

In the first few minutes, i actually lost the ai due to sun glare, so if i looked aimless, it is because I was :)

Thanks for that recoil. However, I disagree with shooting first to ward off the AI. He'll always shoot from a head-on. This is my attempt to learn the AI tricks. I've unarmed him from the editor. I know its not much, but here is how AI acts:

***NOTICE***

this is a cheat. Don't press spoiler if you want to keep trying.

The AI first shoots whenever you are at 1.0 G

That means you must constantly turn and burn.

Second, if done right, the engine setting that works for me, is 2700 RPM, 46 inHg of Manifold Pressure. Lock both.

Third, As soon as you start, face him, and at 0.9 nm apart, shoot him (IF YOU CAN SEE HIM) just spray around his frame then turn right 10 degrees and up (if you are at his level) or down (if you're below him) @ 0.5 nm... Point is, you'll intersect paths at some point. No, you must break that intercept for the coming maneuver.

Once he's past you, the entire engagement is now flaps and smooth turn dependent. Drop your flaps quickly while turning over your nose and having the reflection of the canopy glass suite looking at him behind. Do not use excessive elevator at any time, unless you're about to be shot at. The buffeting and stalling is very severe with flaps up, and generally, stay away from buffet except on the top vertical and he's in front of you, and not behind you (or you'll end up dead shortly for he has incredible aiming accuracy at the top of the sphere).

If the above is good so far, he'll level off, and at the top of vertical, you'll level also off but behind him and lower than him and to his left.

Next, he'll start a rudder/aileron spoof down turn and you have to zoom in a bit to see where he is pointing and remember never point your nose ahead of him unless he's 0.1-0.3 nm and as a side note, put the diamond reticle pipper (dot) always on center with rudder trim tab 2 clicks so its just like 1-2 mils away from the center cross. This will help once he gets in range by closure and the shooting is further assisted by aileron turn to walk the dot onto the cross.

Finally, if you lose sight of him, every 5 seconds change direction and altitude with flaps working until you contrast him to background (sky is the best from low altitude, and sea/land is best from high altitude provided his colors are not drab or black. If you can't see him, that doesn't mean he's left you. Mother****er is diligent. Turn on labels just to re-acquire and then continue in sim.

Distances: 0.5-0.9 is safe from behind with random turnings on your part. 0.1-0.4 is danger in head on. Speaking of head on, don't let your nose point in his direction all the time, break high/low, left/right, 10 degrees, flaps on and off.

1.0-1.3 gives him ample distance to align with you. If that happens, get altitude and turn crazy without buffet. As he approaches for each 0.1 afterwards, turn again so he'll not have constant ball on his slip.

Key areas to protect in your aircraft according to attacking clock position.

12 (head on) propeller, bottom canopy

3-9 (lateral) top and bottom canopy

6 (behind) flaps, ailerons and elevators

and never give him your underside. If you do, he'll always schwhack your K-14 or wing fuel line or electrical.

He's on my 6!!!!

Pull up, deploy full flaps (from 0.1-0.6) and turn against his flight direction. He uses rudder to correct. Rudder has limits of 30 degrees, so turn 45 up or low, with ailerons only.

Watch your speed in a climb and prepare to neutral stick or push it slightly forward around 90 mph, then pull without buffet and go down.
In a dive, watch the ground, and deploy flaps to retard descent rate while using only ailerons and slight touch of elevator to level off
Watch the left tank. If its coming to 25 gallons, switch to the R.H. main tank.
If shot, check these quickly - hydraulic pressure gauge, ammeter, and MP/RPM. If RPM/MP going haywire, reduce both, break off and recheck.
Keep ear for engine sounds and if strange sounds heard, look at coolant/carburetor gauges.
Develop motor reflex memory for stall/buffet ailerons, and keep stick away from that zone.

Set stick curves to + 24-29 for pitch and roll.

Here is unarmed AI:

Edited January 30, 2013 by WildBillKelsoe

VIMANAMAN · January 30, 2013

Hey Bill,

Just installed Tacview and been messing with it - it's pretty cool isn't it - I'll post one or two when i can work it out - did a test attachment in the 'testing sigs,etc...' section, and it worked fine, but now I can't re-post them - any ideas?

Nice video setup there - you ought to consider having a camera just on the engine settings / T&Ps maybe.

What video software is that? That split screen thing is funky!

VIMANAMAN · January 30, 2013

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=29207

This may (or may not) be a link to one of the Tacview files:)

[EDIT - post #37 on that thread - sorry for the trip round the houses - have manflu and never done this b4 - END EDIT]

Edited January 30, 2013 by VIMANAMAN

WildBillKelsoe · January 30, 2013

Hey Bill,

Just installed Tacview and been messing with it - it's pretty cool isn't it - I'll post one or two when i can work it out - did a test attachment in the 'testing sigs,etc...' section, and it worked fine, but now I can't re-post them - any ideas?

Nice video setup there - you ought to consider having a camera just on the engine settings / T&Ps maybe.

What video software is that? That split screen thing is funky!

Hey Vman,

you can use mediafire.com or rapidshare, or any other file hoster for tacview.txt files. I'm using a purchased home edition of Tacview. Serif MoviePlus X5 is what I'm using as video editor. I've rendered the revised tracks from sim to OGV and converted them by a purchased OGV converter. Serif produces some great effects too. Visit serif.com for more info.

I've just wanted to show that flaps alone dictate the turn radius with little to no elevator changes. You can see it clearly as I'm trying to get my nost in front of him. If used elevators, I'd stall. Speed used was 46 inHg and 2700 RPM with occasional 3000 rpm boosts to closure.

Edit: attachments downloaded and working fine.

Edit 2: this is the tacview for the video upstairs. check it out.

Edited January 30, 2013 by WildBillKelsoe

VIMANAMAN · January 31, 2013

That's some really nice flying Bill - seeing it on the tacview made me revisit your vid again - nice going :thumbup:

So you set the AI up with no ammo - but he still appears more than happy to tangle - an excellent training 'mode' by the looks - did you have to set it to specifically engage your unit, or is this as normal i.e. no specific target set? This method (with lower AI skill set) would help people starting out, as it's only possible to learn defensive moves to start with.:)

Anyway really nice flying Dude.

WildBillKelsoe · January 31, 2013

That's some really nice flying Bill - seeing it on the tacview made me revisit your vid again - nice going :thumbup:

So you set the AI up with no ammo - but he still appears more than happy to tangle - an excellent training 'mode' by the looks - did you have to set it to specifically engage your unit, or is this as normal i.e. no specific target set? This method (with lower AI skill set) would help people starting out, as it's only possible to learn defensive moves to start with.:)

Anyway really nice flying Dude.

Hey V, just open the mission, click on the AI at any skill, and strip him of any ammo. His skill was excellent though, not lower skill. I've also tagged the armed AI after he practically destroyed my K-14, on his retirement. Hell I even landed on same field and as I taxied down runway to slower speeds, I found his debris where I shot him! very satisfying when you nail the AI. remember, defensive from 3 to 9 o'clock, offensive from 9 to 3 o'clock.

VIMANAMAN · January 31, 2013

Hey Bill, I realised you were flying against Excellent level AI mate, hence rep inbound your pos.

I meant for anyone just starting out, in which I don't include you mate, you were here from the start:) - I meant for anyone who wanted to practise manoeuvring, engine / energy management & gunnery - i.e. generally keeping up with the bugger and dishing some out.

As we know it's a hell of a learning curve - not blowing the motor, not speed stalling, managing high and low speed flight, keeping it 'clean', etc.

This 'dis-armed AI' method (with the skill level 'tuned' appropriately) would be a good training method, so they weren't getting shot down all the time (as at least I was when I started out).

I found it difficult to learn with tracers flying over me head, only one gun working and no gun sight :D or dangling from a parachute for that matter :D

It's a damn good training idea!

I really like your idea of a CEM summary as well - this is missing at the moment and would help us all. I'll help if I can.

Sorry I was unclear - V

NineLine · January 31, 2013

Hey V, just open the mission, click on the AI at any skill, and strip him of any ammo. His skill was excellent though, not lower skill. I've also tagged the armed AI after he practically destroyed my K-14, on his retirement. Hell I even landed on same field and as I taxied down runway to slower speeds, I found his debris where I shot him! very satisfying when you nail the AI. remember, defensive from 3 to 9 o'clock, offensive from 9 to 3 o'clock.

Maybe even better would be to make yourself invulnerable so that you can hear when you are taking hits, then you know if you are doing something wrong at least :)

Seems like a bug that he would engage with no ammo too. Gonna check that out ;)

VIMANAMAN · January 31, 2013

Maybe even better would be to make yourself invulnerable so that you can hear when you are taking hits, then you know if you are doing something wrong at least :)

Seems like a bug that he would engage with no ammo too. Gonna check that out ;)

Or we could just use the invulnerable setting... that's a good point, I was forgetting about that.

(I thought that was supposed to be permanently on anyway:))

WildBillKelsoe · February 1, 2013

then again, invulnerable kills hardcore, which is my kind of flying. I'll post a video of the armed AI soon. In the mean time, lads and lasses, keep practicing with unarmed AI!!!

recoilfx · February 1, 2013

Another tip, if you are so sick of fighting and losing to the P51D ai right now, try to set up a mission with the L39ZA instead - they are much much easier to take down. You out turn and out accelerate them pretty quickly.

VIMANAMAN · February 1, 2013

then again, invulnerable kills hardcore, which is my kind of flying. I'll post a video of the armed AI soon. In the mean time, lads and lasses, keep practicing with unarmed AI!!!

Yeah I'm with you on the immersion thing - Invulnerability does kind of diminish realism to a pretty large degree - a useful tool though nonetheless.

It would be cool to have a unarmed AI target ship as a training option though - less intimidating - more relaxing practise session - still some realism problems with it but not as many as invulnerability certainly.

As SiThSpAwN mentions it is odd that the AI without ammo doesn't just 'bug out' though, but you seem to have demonstrated it, so nice one.

I'll give it a go if I ever get a mo.

V

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