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SU-27 DACT

Shein

By Shein
in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1 & 2

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Shein

Shein

Posted
Posted

DACT stands for dissimilar air combat training, if you were unaware.

So I was thinking of putting together a series of missions for the Su-27, similar to the F-15's DACT. I have 2 questions for everyone:

1. anyone be interested in this?

2. (here's the kicker) how would you rate the western jets in DCSW from easiest to hardest in terms of WVR and BVR? The F15 DACT followed a logical progression, of older generation fighters to new and faster fighters. However I have NO IDEA who would come out on top BVR or WVR between an F-16 and F-18.

So please, discuss! let me know your opinions!

FanBoy2006.01

FanBoy2006.01

Posted
Posted (edited)

That would be great!

 

I have just started flying the Su 27 (MiG 29C and F 15C are my favorites.).

 

I think allot of people would be interested because the Su 27 and 33 is very popular.

 

Unfortunately I can not help you with rating the aircraft; but I can offer you some idea on how to find out.

 

Back when I started studying again I only had LOCKON and not Flaming Cliffs 1.

 

Sometimes when my computer would be on while I was busy with unimportant stuff. So I decided to make something to entertain myself.

 

I would create simple missions with AI only aircraft and let them fight it out to see who is the winner. Usually 4 against 4, same altitude, head on and with so big a separation that neither parties could shoot at the beginning of the mission and that they have to close on each other.

 

I found that for BVR the one that shoots first would usually win; because it would force the other party to go defensive. Sometimes with SARH missiles the defensive party might even break the lock on the enemy and waste their first shots. This was for LOCKON Patch version 2.

 

For instance. I found that the Mirage 2000 (MICA Radar) would beat MiG 29A (R27R); but would loose to MiG 29C (R-77).

 

The F14 (AIM-54) was the best with MiG 31 (R-33) second. I think this will not be the same for FC2 anymore.

 

What was also interesting was that an F14 with AIM-54s and AIM-9s would fare better that one with Aim-54s, AIM-7s and AIM-9s.

I think that was because at some stage the F 14 with AIM-7s also would use them over the AIM-54s that was still onboard if the distance is close enough.

 

My conclusions where that the missile with the longest range would be the deciding factor. But ECM would play a role as well (Su 27 (R-27ER) without ECM would loose to F 15 (AIM 120) but SU 27 (R-27ER) with ECM would beat F 15 (AIM 120) - NB I am not sure about this point though.).

 

What I did for for WVR was that I would place two aircraft at the same speed and at the same altitude, heading in the same direction with a little bit of horizontal separation. I would arm them with the same armament I would give them for BFR (A realistic mix of the best missiles that the aircraft can carry.).

 

Horizontal distance was arbitrary and I did not take corner speed into account. The speed I chose was usually 900km/h.

 

I can not remember what I got for WVR. But I think Mirage 2000 (MICA IR) and F 5 (AIM 9M) and MiG 29 (R73) was the top 3. This last statement could be completely off. I think I dropped the Su 27's feul to half. It was only for kicks so I did pay allot of attention to the outcome.

 

Something interesting I also found was if you take two similar aircraft with similar loads and fuel (I did this with Su 27 only.), the one that is gaining altitude in the merge usually defeats the one that is descending.

 

In conclusion I think you for both WVR and BVR you can just sort the aircraft from easy to hard according to how difficult they are for you to beat them.

 

As for F 16 versus F/A 18. I am intrigued.

 

PS. Skill level was set the same of course.

Edited by FanBoy2006.01
HiJack

HiJack

Posted
Posted

DACT Multiplayer for TEAMWORK :D

 

I have made Multiplayer and Singleplayer series of the DACT so 1 to 6 people can play online and select form a range of aircrafts. If played in Singleplayer you just load the number of bandits you want. When in multiplayer you just fly over one assigned waypoint to load a mission with more bandits if you are on a dedicated server with no admin.

 

Download here:

http://ge.tt/3xG6acW/v/0

 

Enjoy!

 

138th.Jack

karambiatos

karambiatos

Posted
Posted (edited)

the thing is the AI being the AI, they become more dangerous depending on the armament you give them, so if you give an F15C aim9s along with aim120s itll be easier to win against it, then if it has aim120s only (good luck dodging an aim120 from close range), but id like to learn how to doge aim-120s when its at or higher than mach 2.5

Edited by karambiatos

A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record.

 

=&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things

Shein

Shein

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Funny you mention it Fanboy, I do the same thing! although its not always foolproof; I've seen a mig29a beat a su27 wvr with guns only, and I'm pretty sure the su-27 is supposed to be superior.

Thank you everyone for your feedback, I'll definitely make this and post a link here!

Though I'll probably wait for the next DCS patch (any day now) because if I make it sooner, the new skins with the next patch will probably break the skins for the SU-27. I had it happen with a georgian oil war modified campaign I made a while back, and now if you try to run it the KA-50's all have the NO SKIN skin on.

Also, I'll post a list for the aircraft I'm going to use in order when I've fleshed it out :thumbup:

pepin1234

pepin1234

Posted
Posted

2. (here's the kicker) how would you rate the western jets in DCSW from easiest to hardest in terms of WVR and BVR? The F15 DACT followed a logical progression, of older generation fighters to new and faster fighters. However I have NO IDEA who would come out on top BVR or WVR between an F-16 and F-18.

So please, discuss! let me know your opinions!

 

The russian fighters seem downgraded compared with the F-15. So the best strategy to training and get a good fit, is the Awacs, but the F-15 pilots say they have not bullseye orientation and they are disadvantage, so few servers use the Awacs. Does not matter how much we training because with the new missiles features and the new strategy of ED the Su/migs always will be in disadvantage, but go ahead, I am sure lot of people wish to training.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Shein

Shein

Posted
  • Author
Posted

alright so here's the lineup! (one mission for each plane) (another set for versus 2 planes)

 

BVR sequence:

 

F-4 (aim-120b)

F-14 (aim-54)

Mirage (MICA-AR/IR)

F-15c (aim-120c)

 

WVR (heaters) sequence:

 

F-4

F-14

F-15c

Mirage

F-18c

F-16c

 

Guns Only:

 

F-4 (had to make sure this one even had a gun; some F-4's didnt!!)

F-14

F-15

F-18

F-16

Mirage

 

And then maybe a couple challenge missiles, like V1 F-15 WVR with aim-120's loaded up, if you're a glutton for punishment...

What do you guys think? additions? change the order? I'm trying to keep the difficulty scaled in each category...

  • 2 weeks later...
Shein

Shein

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Its all done guys! And uploaded to the dcs website, just have to wait for it to be approved.... Soon as it is I'll post a link... Stand by

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