DCS:Fighter vs FC3 = imbalance?

[SkateZilla]

ground power on,

Turn on the JTRS and Everything else HUD/MFD/System Related,

CDU On, EO On

APU, On

Pinky Switch Aft, Turn on External Indicator lights.

Turn on the Radios

Tune to Tower

request Start Up

Start Left,

Start Right,

finish startup procedure.

Wait for CDU to Align,

Taxi

 

about 4.5 minutes if done in the right order (minus CICU Bit Test). (yes Im aware that wasnt a detailed procedure list, common sense would fill in the rest (ie APU AC Gen etc)

 

You could set the CDU to do inflight calibration, which takes like 7 mins, but if the enemy is no where near you, you can start up, taxi and fly off in like 2 minutes or less.

Edited February 1, 2013 by SkateZilla

[SkateZilla]

isnt the SU-25T AFM too.

[NineLine]

Should you? No. Should you know how to? Yes :)

 

And the A-10C makes things very nice for you with the AoA tones :)

 

Well sure... you should also know how to SEAD in an A-10 as well... but I dont think that is recommended either, but I do it all the time. All I mean is judging the AFM on turning engagements using the A-10 might not yield the best results... I am gonna assume a AFM fighter, say the F-18, is going to corner slightly better ;)

[GGTharos]

Think of it this way: While you don't have a cocked pit right now, you can flip on your nav system as you start your engines. Or your APU for that matter. You're still going to align it in the air, although in the RL plane it probably takes less time to work it out on the ground thanks to stored position capability which I believe we do not have in-game.

 

One way or another, depending on which era of aircraft you have, you may be doing alignment in the air.

 

Like Eddie said, what we have now is not ideal for a scramble, but you can definitely work with it.

[GGTharos]

There is no SEAD (and DCSW doesn't support SEAD in any way, shape or form anyway right now, except when you have a ground commander) in an A-10, period. There is only DEAD, assuming you want to do that.

 

Technically an F-35 would be likely to just be doing DEAD too.

 

And everyone need to know BFM. It isn't just fighting, it's also formating and basic flying.

 

SEAD in an A-10 as well...

Edited February 1, 2013 by GGTharos

[NineLine]

There is no SEAD (and DCSW doesn't support SEAD in any way, shape or form anyway right now, except when you have a ground commander) in an A-10, period. There is only DEAD, assuming you want to do that.

 

Technically an F-35 would be likely to just be doing DEAD too.

 

You know what I mean though... taking on bad things on the ground I shouldnt be ;)

[Eddie]

That was my next question... surely in a high alert zone the planes must be configured so you dont do your leisurely start up... to scramble a fighter that is to intercept incoming enemy's, surely you dont want to be starting systems in the air... so is there modes for fighters that shorten start up times as far as systems and such?

 

Of course I know nothing about the time it takes to get, say and F-16, up from cold... to full operation.

 

There are established procedures to prepare most military aircraft for ground alert 'scrambles', and they are laid down in the aircrew checklists. Basically they amount to starting the aircraft and then shutting down in a specific manner so that system configurations and nav alignment etc is preserved.

[NineLine]

Think of it this way: While you don't have a cocked pit right now, you can flip on your nav system as you start your engines. Or your APU for that matter. You're still going to align it in the air, although in the RL plane it probably takes less time to work it out on the ground thanks to stored position capability which I believe we do not have in-game.

 

One way or another, depending on which era of aircraft you have, you may be doing alignment in the air.

 

Like Eddie said, what we have now is not ideal for a scramble, but you can definitely work with it.

 

When we get an AFM fighter, should that be a feature request, we have ramp start and runway start, should there be something inbetween. Is there a "quick start" mode that they use in a quick scramble situation?

[NineLine]

There are established procedures to prepare most military aircraft for ground alert 'scrambles', and they are laid down in the aircrew checklists. Basically they amount to starting the aircraft and then shutting down in a specific manner so that system configurations and nav alignment etc is preserved.

 

 

Just asked that, but this should be a feature then if we get a fighter, and the ability to set a plane on the ground in the ME set this way I think, no?

[GGTharos]

Skip the ground power, start with the APU. You're not likely to have ground power most of the time in RL, at least AFAIK.

 

ground power on,

Turn on the JTRS and Everything else HUD/MFD/System Related,

CDU On, EO On

APU, On

Pinky Switch Aft, Turn on External Indicator lights.

Turn on the Radios

Tune to Tower

request Start Up

Start Left,

Start Right,

finish startup procedure.

Wait for CDU to Align,

Taxi

 

about 4.5 minutes if done in the right order (minus CICU Bit Test). (yes Im aware that wasnt a detailed procedure list, common sense would fill in the rest (ie APU AC Gen etc)

 

You could set the CDU to do inflight calibration, which takes like 7 mins, but if the enemy is no where near you, you can start up, taxi and fly off in like 2 minutes or less.

[falcon_120]

Even if we had some kind of imbalance,which I don't think. What's the problem making a simulator of a fighter in a DCS level?. That is a present, not a problem. Furthermore when you simulate different kind of fighters and system not only you don't get balance,but you are not looking for it. We now have F15s,Su27s,Mig29s ... This planes are not exactly balanced nor they should.

My opinion on this is simple,I'm looking for something as close to the real thing as possible,if we are getting that then I'm happy :).

[SkateZilla]

Skip the ground power, start with the APU. You're not likely to have ground power most of the time in RL, at least AFAIK.

 

true, i usually only really use GP if it's availible when I land to re-pair/re-arm, that way i dont have to re-align.

[SkateZilla]

Even if we had some kind of imbalance,which I don't think. What's the problem making a simulator of a fighter in a DCS level?. That is a present, not a problem. Furthermore when you simulate different kind of fighters and system not only you don't get balance,but you are not looking for it. We now have F15s,Su27s,Mig29s ... This planes are not exactly balanced nor they should.

My opinion on this is simple,I'm looking for something as close to the real thing as possible,if we are getting that then I'm happy :).

 

I'll take Realism over Balance.

[GGTharos]

Fire up the APU before you shut down engines, it works like a charm :)

 

true, i usually only really use GP if it's availible when I land to re-pair/re-arm, that way i dont have to re-align.

[St3v3f]

If you have to PvP fight with low fidelity aircrafts vs. high fidelity ones, then the mission writer screwed up big time if you ask me, regardless of which one will have an advantage...

[SkateZilla]

well, i learn something new everyday...

 

 

 

i was just hooking up GP, shutting off the engines, repair, rearm, radio for permission to start up, start left, start right and radio for taxi clearance and im gone.

 

I just know, once getting familiar with the A_10C, The first thing I changed in my startup procedure was getting Power to the CDU as soon as power was availible from APU, as it takes longer to run the BIT and Align than the entire startup procedure once you get efficient at it.

Edited February 1, 2013 by SkateZilla

[danilop]

No one will fly FC3 anything when DCS fighter hit the World. Why? Simple, it will be couple of years from now (yeah, they're saying this year, but I don't believe that :)), so FC3 will be very old news by then ...

 

That is the reason why we've got FC3 in the first place - to keep us interested in DCS franchise until proper stuff - DCS fighter(s) arrive(s) ..

[GGTharos]

There will always be FC3 class aircraft.

 

No one will fly FC3 anything when DCS fighter hit the World. Why? Simple, it will be couple of years from now (yeah, they're saying this year, but I don't believe that :)), so FC3 will be very old news by then ...

 

That is the reason why we've got FC3 in the first place - to keep us interested in DCS franchise until proper stuff - DCS fighter(s) arrive(s) ..

[Frostie]

Flying DCS F-18 or whatever comes first I will certainly want some varied pvp opponents, low fidelity or high as long as they're a threat why should it matter.

[Exorcet]

Flying DCS F-18 or whatever comes first I will certainly want some varied pvp opponents, low fidelity or high as long as they're a threat why should it matter.

Agreed.

 

And any fidelity beats the AI, well as long as it's not Ace Combat.

[danilop]

Community is growing up rapidly. FC3 quality stuff was really great 4-5 years ago, but after tasting the DCS stuff, I have a feeling that your average combat flight enthusiast wants more now.

 

I understand that FC franchise was historically the biggest money making product for ED, but market is changing (and ED is responsible for this positive change) ...

 

You need great dedication (months) to completely master FC3 class airplane - you don't need that much more (ok, couple of months more perhaps) to master DCS class aircraft. And rewards from learning DCS stuff are order of magnitude bigger.

 

There will always be FC3 class aircraft.

[secret1962]

Remember FC3 aircrafts can startup in 15-30 secs...

[GGTharos]

I will say this again, because it seems that you believe that this is somehow an argument for something or other ...

 

There will always be FC3 class aircraft.

While the quality might increase a little for example to include 3D pits and perhaps slightly better FM and avionics, they will compare to the FC level of simulation fidelity.

 

There's no argument here, this is the way it will be.

 

 

Community is growing up rapidly. FC3 quality stuff was really great 4-5 years ago, but after tasting the DCS stuff, I have a feeling that your average combat flight enthusiast wants more now.

 

I understand that FC franchise was historically the biggest money making product for ED, but market is changing (and ED is responsible for this positive change) ...

 

You need great dedication (months) to completely master FC3 class airplane - you don't need that much more (ok, couple of months more perhaps) to master DCS class aircraft. And rewards from learning DCS stuff are order of magnitude bigger.

[GGTharos]

Try a whole minute, and even so, so what? Fly in missions where it takes more than 5 minutes to get to the enemy airfield, problem fixed.

Better yet, learn to scramble your DCS aircraft, or ask the mission maker to hot-pit all the DCS aircraft so that your startup time is zero.

 

Remember FC3 aircrafts can startup in 15-30 secs...

[KLR Rico]

If the DCS fast mover has TAD/SADL, the FC3 jets are F'd.

 

If everyone can figure out how to set their goddamn ID's, that is. :D