MasterZelgadis Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 The A-10C is a close air support bomber, often supporting infantry units. But the unit types you can set in the editor can't really play this out. There should be more types of infantry, like: - sniper/spotter (with the ability to go prone) - AT infantry (USA) - Special forces with silenced weapons Additionally there should be editor or script features like letting units go prone, take cover, lase targets "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
pepin1234 Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Not yet. It is planed for the future but I think what you want, take long. In the real life the cost of use an A-10C for a CAS could be a high cost if the aircraft is lost, other thing is inside our Simulator. For sure will bring lot of fun. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MasterZelgadis Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 What has that to do with my wish for more infantry types in DCS? "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
shagrat Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 +1 Add civillians and Insurgents (civillians with Weapons)/ para military (mixed uniforms no helmets) to that... refine tactics and difficulty "Do not engage unarmed civillians!" :thumbup: And maybe an armed and unarmed Pickup Truck??? Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 11 | Ryzen 9 7900X3D | 64GB | GeForce RTX 4090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
NoCarrier Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 While I agree with you that the current selection of infantry units is kind of sparse (would love to see parachuting airborne infantry, or mechanized infantry riding their vehicles), I think we ought to be realistic about the fact that the scale of DCS World doesn't lend itself well for infantry simulation.
pepin1234 Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 What has that to do with my wish for more infantry types in DCS? A lot... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MasterZelgadis Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 It doesn't have to be an infantry simulation, but I can't make a mission, where you have to cover a special forces unit when they do RATATATAT at enemy contact, rather that killing with a silenced shot. I Can't have a sniper in the area, M249 soliders seem to go prone when halting, but a sniper with an M249 looks stupid. Your argument is like "There is no need for T-55, T72, T-80, and T-90, because it is not a tank simulation" ;) "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
pepin1234 Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) It doesn't have to be an infantry simulation, but I can't make a mission, where you have to cover a special forces unit when they do RATATATAT at enemy contact, rather that killing with a silenced shot. I Can't have a sniper in the area, M249 soliders seem to go prone when halting, but a sniper with an M249 looks stupid. Your argument is like "There is no need for T-55, T72, T-80, and T-90, because it is not a tank simulation" ;) If you make this question about snipers, I guess you have tested the infantry. Just imagine a sniper inside our Simulator right now. We need more tools and code inside our simulator and a better FOV. I personaly think this have no sense till ED bring us a infantry module. But at the moment ED have others important things to try an infantry module. Somewhere in this interview you can read the answer about an Infantry module: http://simhq.com/_air13/air_479a.html Edited February 23, 2013 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
NoCarrier Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Your argument is like "There is no need for T-55, T72, T-80, and T-90, because it is not a tank simulation" ;) I can tell the difference between the T-80 and the T-90 through my TGP at most ranges. The difference between an infantryman carrying an M4 or a M249, not so much. Besides, do you think most of the pointy-nosed jet jockeys will give a crap?
NoCarrier Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against adding infantry units and improving the infantry side of DCS World per se; I just suspect it's a whole lot of work for relatively little gain.
shagrat Posted February 23, 2013 Posted February 23, 2013 Guys, have in mind that the TGP very well let you have a close up look, and especially with Combined Arms and JTAC integrated it would be nice to do more "realistic" missions, where the thing to worry about most is decision making with restrictive ROEs... The last full out war the A-10C took place in was Iraq... er, wait that was the A-10A. So with an A-10C I would like to have a more realistic approach of mission building and not a fictious USSR Tank batallion hunt. More civillian and differentiated soldiers / enemy foot troops and especially trucks, pick ups, mini vans etc. will spice this up a lot! Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 11 | Ryzen 9 7900X3D | 64GB | GeForce RTX 4090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
MasterZelgadis Posted February 23, 2013 Author Posted February 23, 2013 @Pepin: You are completely off topic. Where do I write, that I want an infantry module? I just want more options in the "loadout" of the AI Infantry, so a sniper rally is a sniper, and not a machinegunner, where you have to imagine he would carry a sniper gun. And in the tgp you could tell very well, if there is a machinegunner or a sniper with his spotter lying on that hill "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
leafer Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I'm game for a lot more ground troop varieties and middle eastern insurgents. While they're at it add IEDs and car bombs as well for CA. ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
luza Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) I'm game for a lot more ground troop varieties and middle eastern insurgents. While they're at it add IEDs and car bombs as well for CA. IEDS can be added to some extent using triggers and the action Explode in the ME.... Edited February 24, 2013 by luza [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Quirkitized Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 There are also landmines you can place but anyway, on topic, i'd also like to see different variants of troops. I'd even like to see the US Manpad Comms guy have no launchers on the group next to him, he could simply then be a jtac soldier, he already has radio gear on him.
Teapot Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Any infantry 'simulation' will be a joke. I'd prefer an extrapolation of cause and effect rather than having infantry simulated to a one man one unit proposition. Simulations can be good for procedural training, and even a bit of suspension of disbelief can creep in and make it and engrossing gaming experience ... with the current state of technology we see decent simulations of vehicles and we can interact with the 'realistically' ... but simulating a man on foot? I don't think home based mass market computing technology is ready for that yet. "A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft." Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!
MasterZelgadis Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 And again, I never wrote I want an infantry simulation. Please read my posts... "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
TZeer Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 +1 to this Would nice to have some variety on the troops you place on the map. That a spec op guy actually looked a little like spec op, and not just like the average soldier.
Grimes Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I tend to agree that ground AI needs to be enhanced to make infantry useful in terms of gameplay usage, however it would still be nice to have a variety of infantry types available for aesthetic and practical purposes. 1 The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
mjeh Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Adding more infantry variations can be done by anyone with some 3d-modelling skill, so long as it's only cosmetic. As I understand it, there are plenty of skilled artists frequenting this community. (Fix LOD models while you're at it, everyone's crouching from a distance :) ) Were ED to work on infantry, I'd much rather they worked on infantry AI, gave them heat signatures, made them playable (imagine how much more intense JTACing would be). And who knows, with EDGE maybe scenery detail will be good enough to facilitate it?
MasterZelgadis Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 Hm, modding is always nice, but in DCS I don't want to use them. When I make a mission, I like that people can play it without having to install mods first. So it should be in the vanilla version "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
mjeh Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I see your point, I'm just saying infantry units in their currently implemented state are rather clunky and not all that useful anyway IMO - they behave more like vehicles than infantry. That said though, I completely agree with your post. It would be very nice to have more unit variety, especially among the foot soldiers :)
pepin1234 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) And again, I never wrote I want an infantry simulation. Please read my posts... Man...!!! Here I write what you wrote in your first post: The A-10C is a close air support bomber often supporting infantry units. But... It is, but when we talking about infantry support, maybe one Heli can do a more rational work, because the risk and cost of lost a A-10 is much more high There should be more types of infantry, like: - sniper/spotter (with the ability to go prone) - AT infantry (USA) - Special forces with silenced weapons Additionally there should be editor or script features like letting units go prone, take cover, lase targets Yes I like that too, but have not sense right now if you have not an infantry module ( this my personal opinion ) Why I am talking about one infantry modules?? - sniper/spotter (with the ability to go prone) If ED do now what you want, one sniper can eliminate easyly an enemy group ( IA ) and this IA group normally should search the sniper position and set a ROE. The group should set a communication and coordinate a defence ( in this case they should hide ). If the Sniper is localised, normaly the infantry gun have not the enough range/precision to fire response a single sniper, so... two chances could support the IA group... fire with high caliber gun or request Air-support - Special forces with silenced weapons More of before, but much more complicated because the number of Specials forces. My Conclusion: Have not sense all that, if you have not a human infantry module. All I have wrote in Red is imposible now and the producers need an enormous code quantity to do all that ( real as possible ) only with more infantry IA. If you design a mission for ARMA, do you set only IA and then you sit-down to watch the confrontation??? Thats why I mention the needs to have a Infantry module for your wishes, and is not Off-Topic :laugh: Edited February 24, 2013 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MasterZelgadis Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) All of the red statements are possible with the mission editor. search the sniper position: waypoints, fire at point, whatever set a ROE: don't know what you mean by that, ROE is short for Rules of Engagement, you have that in the advanced waypoint actions or triggered actions. set a communication and coordinate a defence: Scripted radio calls. should hide: Invisible(true) request Air-support: scripted radio calls Why doesn't there have to be an infantry module for the current infantry units then? Why doesn't there have to be a tank module for the currently available tanks (there were tanks in DCS before CA)? Do we need a ship module to add ships to our missions? I still don't see your point, and in fact I am tired discussing it over and over again. My wish is having more infantry units, and with full respect for your opinion, let the ED team decide what happens with this wish. Fact is: Infantry Units are there. Giving them an M24 instead of their M4 can't be that difficult to "code" Edited February 24, 2013 by MasterZelgadis "Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler." http://www.space-view.net
pepin1234 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I still don't see your point, and in fact I am tired discussing it over and over again. My wish is having more infantry units, and with full respect for your opinion, let the ED team decide what happens with this wish. Fact is: Infantry Units are there. Giving them an M24 instead of their M4 can't be that difficult to "code" :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Tomorrow come the infantry for u... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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