159th_Viper Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Should be in the track I uploaded one page back. (The second track) Got it, Ta. You are correct - guidance is diabolical. I'll attend to a report. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojangles_25 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Aside from the missile physics.. (I can't comment as I don't know how they SHOULD behave).. I have always thought its a bit weird that FC3 aircraft can be flown with/against DCS aircraft... Surely FC3 aircraft are not up to the 'DCS standard' of realism "We could come back with hydraulics shot out, half the tail shot off, piece of the wing shot off, we had two engines and could come home with one... She really was a piece of machinery that you could fly into hell and back... And she was designed around that gun from day 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 . I have always thought its a bit weird that FC3 aircraft can be flown with/against DCS aircraft... Surely FC3 aircraft are not up to the 'DCS standard' of realism How does BFM differ between FC aircraft and DCS aircraft? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojangles_25 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 How does BFM differ between FC aircraft and DCS aircraft? Assuming the FC3 flight models are parallel in realism to DCS aircraft, then manoeuvring isn't an issue.. no aircraft type has an advantage over the other.. the tactics of the pilot come into play. I'm specifically talking about the realism of the avionics, i.e. aiming and firing the weapons whose physics are/are not in question. "We could come back with hydraulics shot out, half the tail shot off, piece of the wing shot off, we had two engines and could come home with one... She really was a piece of machinery that you could fly into hell and back... And she was designed around that gun from day 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'm specifically talking about the realism of the avionics, i.e. aiming and firing the weapons whose physics are/are not in question. DCS aircraft will have the advantage over FC3 aircraft by a country-mile, so yes, you would be correct in assuming that FC3 drivers will in this instance have a valid basis to moan very loudly indeed. That said, knowing the caliber of FC3 pilots, that will not happen :) Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojangles_25 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 DCS aircraft will have the advantage over FC3 aircraft by a country-mile, so yes, you would be correct in assuming that FC3 drivers will in this instance have a valid basis to moan very loudly indeed. That said, knowing the caliber of FC3 pilots, that will not happen :) Wouldn't the advantage lie with FC3 pilots if the avionics aren't as real and thus take less time practising/reading/learning to use effectively? This is despite how powerful or weak AA missiles are.. "We could come back with hydraulics shot out, half the tail shot off, piece of the wing shot off, we had two engines and could come home with one... She really was a piece of machinery that you could fly into hell and back... And she was designed around that gun from day 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Wouldn't the advantage lie with FC3 pilots if the avionics aren't as real..... It's not a matter of 'real' or not as FC3 avionics are real, albeit severely limited in functionality. In a DCS plane you'll have use of a fully-functional avionics-suite, tailor-made to ensure your opponent's destruction with relative ease. In a FC3 aircraft you are forced to settle for a 'watered-down' version of the same avionics-suite which, due to it's 'watered-down' state, spells bad news for the FC3 pilot. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojangles_25 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 It's not a matter of 'real' or not as FC3 avionics are real, albeit severely limited in functionality. In a DCS plane you'll have use of a fully-functional avionics-suite, tailor-made to ensure your opponent's destruction with relative ease. In a FC3 aircraft you are forced to settle for a 'watered-down' version of the same avionics-suite which, due to it's 'watered-down' state, spells bad news for the FC3 pilot. I see :) I've never thought of it like this as I don't own FC3.. Just been on the wrong end of a lot of AA missiles "We could come back with hydraulics shot out, half the tail shot off, piece of the wing shot off, we had two engines and could come home with one... She really was a piece of machinery that you could fly into hell and back... And she was designed around that gun from day 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The R-27 family and the SRM's (Sidewinder, R-73) are best tuned. AIM-7 isn't bad either. I would have thought that the AIM-7 was doing the best out of the MRM's. The ER is very fast, but it seems to burn energy a bit quickly, it's range doesn't extend very far past the AIM-7's from what I can tell. Of the best missiles, would you say that they are over or underperforming? What I really want to get an idea of is the effective range of missiles in the final build. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoidal Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Of the best missiles, would you say that they are over or underperforming? What I really want to get an idea of is the effective range of missiles in the final build. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=102583&highlight=tunguska&page=2 Asus P6T deluxe V2 | I7 950@3.8 | 6 GB DDR3 (@1600 Tri-channel) 2x ATI 5850 (crossfire-->OFF) | Creative X-Fi | SSD OCZ Vertex 3 | OCZ ZX Series 1250W PSU | TrackIR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 You won't get an idea until we are done tuning. AIM-120 and R-77 are not performing as they ought, for a variety of reasons, some not solvable by the time of the 'final build', those issues having mostly to do with trajectory shaping. Right now there is a big effort to get these missiles performing as best as possible with respect to some known performance metrics, while other performance parameters have to be guessed (eg ... how do you define Rmax? The definition of 'greatest range at which a non-maneuvering target can be intercepted, taken literally, is useless). In the end, we may or may not be able to achieve correct missile parameters. Many things factor into this. Of the best missiles, would you say that they are over or underperforming? What I really want to get an idea of is the effective range of missiles in the final build. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoidal Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Those posts make me think we are in a early early early alpha state 1 Asus P6T deluxe V2 | I7 950@3.8 | 6 GB DDR3 (@1600 Tri-channel) 2x ATI 5850 (crossfire-->OFF) | Creative X-Fi | SSD OCZ Vertex 3 | OCZ ZX Series 1250W PSU | TrackIR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 No, they are not. The physics model is done. Getting the parameters right for the missiles is another thing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberst Zeisig Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yeah seems for me You have a really hard time hitting maneuvering targets by 120s. And that´s just after me switching from fc2 Mig29S to fc3 F15 to get to know her benefits.:( To get this some more picturesque, could someone have quick look at two of the missions I´ve just flown. [vs. 2 Mig29s Skill High]. Often they evade all of my 8 120s all shot closer 10nm, except the first 2. Or You tell me perhaps some basic mistakes I do ....Hardfail.trkDamn hard work.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Good combat flight is understanding the nature of things and the feeling to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IASGATG Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 120C's shouldn't be shot before 8nmi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shein Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Okay so I have to ask... Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't people happy with the performance of the missiles in FC2? so it begs the question... why do we not use those performance parameters? is it because of the missile AFM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theChris Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 120C's shouldn't be shot before 8nmi. why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Dragon Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 minimum effective range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberst Zeisig Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 ???? Anyway I fired them at diffrent ranges, also far less then 10nm. But to get closer at two bandits with their (alltogether) 12 Missiles is hard work as You can see on the files. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Good combat flight is understanding the nature of things and the feeling to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Why are we having this discussion? Somebody please enlighten me, bearing in mind that missiles are currently, as with FC3 as a whole, in the Beta stage and as such a W.I.P. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JujuMan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Useful for the PhD graduates studying rocket ballistics I suppose.... Nothing else... ;) _________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 There's no PhD material in here :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danilop Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 :D Yeah, this is simply overview ... hey, we don't use differential equations and integral calculus in arguing ... yet :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Fortunately, they are not needed :D What the model requires is rocket thrust for a given time, and we do get the boost and sustain phase, thus letting us cover all of the AAM rocket motor configurations, and the drag and lift profile. There are things that are dealt with by the guidance section (a lot of WEZ 'expansion' depends on the guidance section, which can fly the missile in such a way as to maintain its velocity for the longest possible time), but a change in guidance is not going until later probably. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Okay so I have to ask... Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't people happy with the performance of the missiles in FC2? No, launch platform speed had nothing to do with missile speed, and missile speed itself was hardcoded. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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