CPU Core number 3

[Demongornot]

CPU Core number 3, what i talk about ?

Everyone know that DCS only handle a single CPU core, its not really nice when we know that it was a CPU based game (like almost every aircraft sim)

 

Actually sound use its own CPU core if one are available, and DCS will soon be only available for 64 bits computer, almost everyone have one, but almost everyone who using 64 bits system have a quadcore CPU, single and dual core its rare now.

 

EDGE will be release, but not soon, i'm sure we have to wait more than a year for see this new terrain engine to be release.

And we must don't have illusion, before a long time it will be full of bug and badly optimized, and it will work ONLY with Nevada map, a lot of people will still using Georgia for a lot of mission, even the campaign, and it will be for sure really badly optimized and will have lag for a lot of reason, mainly cause with new terrain engine ED will take the occasion to create more 3D object, mainly cause of Las Vegas.

And for the time before it will be release and for free user or those who don't will be able to buy it before a long time, the Georgia will still CPU limited game, even with really huge CPU.

 

The problem of CPU based game is that CPU power, even for the most powerful available today, it will still create FPS issue, cause CPU are not made for this and its why we have graphic card, and that's why the GPU computing is something that we see much more now, cause GPU can easily do what CPU lag for try and to finally not that's good, i know that DCS will never be GPU based, and the problem is that even with the best GPU card available we will still have no more FPS than what we will have with a 3 time less powerful one graphic card, demo here :

CPU based its bad, mainly with its not optimized and when it can only take single core (even if the sound process use its own core but i don't get why when we hear it, but its another thread)

 

Actually the simulator know a really big issue, a single explosion or smoke can make people lag so much that they will probably crash, its a little funny for something capable to show a lot of chimney smoke and the 1/3 size of the Georgia.

 

 

 

I spoiler this area cause its useless for you to read this if you don't want to read any criticism about graphic engine or how we can do better or any complain.

 

If say 1/3 and not 1/1 cause the size effect its TOTALLY false, look at any big unit and try to told me that it don't look like a an RC model, put camera in front of any soldier and try to told me that you feel like having the same size than this guy, game like Battlefield 3 also use the same tweak, if guy seem to look smaller than what they are in real its cause they are, Arma 3 have the real size/scale for human view from a screen, but every simulator or aircraft game don't have.

And i still nice to only say 1/3�

Cause for some people with optical illusion or accustom of simulation its not impossible to enter in immersion (when its not killed by lag)...

It just cause it take less performance to do it small scale, but its not impossible to do better visual with realistic scale for better performance, Battlefield 3 have 1/1 scale and take 2 time more performance than Arma 3 (even in Alpha for the moment) who have 1/1 scale and who have visual range 5 times greater than what full map of Battlefield is, and notice than Arma 3 have a lot of details, visual render are greater than BF3, it can handle the same number of unit/effect and ever more and it was create by a way smaller team.

And this problem and comparison its EXACTLY the same for DCS and every simulator situation, we can have a way more better for not much performance needed, BF3 -> Arma 3 is the best example but it can also be applied to simulation.

 

Anyways lets back to the original subject.

 

 

 

Actually effect like smoke, explosion and things like this is a big issue, its not a simple little problem that almost no one have, its a big problem who completely affecting the software and the gameplay and that everyone have, a SINGLE CBU97 make me lag, and i have a really huge computer, like fly at low altitude make me lag cause of the dirt under the aircraft, the simple effect of dirt behind the aircraft drop my FPS from 90 in good condition to 10 FPS, even if i don't look at this dirt cloud and with mirrors disable.

And the worst part of this was that the smoke effect look really bad (smoke effect including, smoke from explosion, fire, damage, dirt, smoke pod and contrail and any other smoke based effect).

 

Like everyone know the AI are also not really the best of the world, with the ATC way too much simple and the bot who always collide and who have really bad combat action, its need to be improved, a lot...Mainly with multiple aircraft position available, no one will want to be the copilot of a bot who fly really bad...

 

So why not using another CPU core for visual effect and AI ?

 

(Message for people always say that everything its impossible)

Don't told me that it was impossible, a lot of game/software use identical kind of thing and it work very well, and some software like this are created by codder with amateur skill level.

(Message for people so septic that they don't believe in septic people end)

 

Why ?

First cause the game will soon handle 64 bits and its the perfect occasion to create this during this low level structural change.

Also cause today people with single or dual core processor its rare and they will anyways don't be able to use the actual version of the game without having less than 5 FPS.

 

The reason was that with its own core, effect wont cause problems anymore, it will totally and definitely fix the FPS issue for effect and a lot of things, cause everything (CPU based) who can be switch to a new CPU core will help a lot, and rather than make i don't know what change for the next patch for try to tweak the smoke, it will be a better idea cause it will permit to test a lot of things for the upcoming EDGE even it if will be different, it will provide better user support and alpha test support for the future, and open something new to customer can permit to find a lot of bug or door for optimization that tester and codder config wont reveal.

 

I don't know what will be doing for the next patch who will maybe optimize smoke effect, but it will be like try to heat an house without door and windows by adding a lot of radiator and even make a fireplace in the middle of the lounge...

 

Adding new core for effect can open new door for modders and permit to optimized and lets people change it, and it can also open door for Third Party codders, like in FSX aircraft like PMDG or VRS who using their own flight model independent of the game.

 

And it will permit to having a better AI, actual are really bad, it collide on everything and rather than just avoid other aircraft they are attract by them, i have try to fly really close of a tanker (no standard flight, not in tanker active mode) really close to the wing, under and over, he don't react, seem logical, but i have cut off road just front of him and really close, he don't react and i have do it a lot, lightly over and under him, nothing happen, i have even touch him with my talk and nothing happen he just keep the trajectory and turn at the waypoint when needed (not a dead pilot issue).

Soldier are really really really bad, no strategy, they just don't move and wait to be killed, they don't run when under fire, they just return fire, even unicellular creature show intelligence and survival skill.

And the problem completely change the product and the simulation quality when combat is affected, create a simple mission with unit on the ground and use any A10C F15 F18 SU25 SU25T SU27 or any other aircraft you want in CAS task and lets them attack the unit with correct waypoint action setting.

They will just fly ahead of the target, dive, fire, pull up slowly, do a big turn and take a trajectory who will make them strike 1 time per 2/5 minute, real A10C can do 3 gun run per minute in average attack profile, and they active fly trajectory permit to the pilot to avoid a lot of eventual AAA shoot...

Or just formation fly, i remember in FC2, one of the first thing i have try with AI was formation flight, i was number 1 of 4 ship in close formation flight, 10 time closer than the closer possible for DCS actually, just after take off they rejoin formation and fly on my right, i was able to do loops, high G turn even minimum radius and they still be able to follow me at the same distance without problems except sometime that i do a roll, they don't roll with me and was lost.

Now even on a big formation they are not able to keep correct position, try an escort flight with "follow" task in advanced waypoint action and set position for a close flight with your aircraft, lets the AI flight at your left, 20m at same altitude, turn slowly at the right, he will be lost and turn left, you have great chance to collide with him cause he will never turn before you are...far away...

 

AI need they own core to be able to using more CPU power and be more smart (or stop to be brainless it fact), it can provide advanced AI action, realistic dogfight/detection/ground strike/navigation/escort/formation flight and other action with more advanced AI script and maybe their own application (some amateur modders in FSX have create external application fr bots, so the greater of the original software can do it too) it can permit to adding more complex flight model do AI, they do error that no pilot are stupid enough to do, and they never do error than real life pilot do like pull too hard on G and pass out or even stall or overspeed, no one can say that the sim don't need AI capable of pass out, stall or over G/overspeed their payload/aircraft, it was an IMPORTANT needed feature, if bot was not realistic, the simulator was not realistic and its not a simulator.

Also AI AFM will be nice cause see AI able to land with a single landing gear available and don't crash, aircraft leveled, taxi, park and walk away to take a coffee rather than crash landing who can be important for some mission with script or trigger where landed safely unit will be repair ream and back to fight (just a trigger/script who make respawn the original aircraft when he park his aircraft) or just for give us the "kill" of the bandit down, after all its cause of us that he have low chance to survive on landing.

 

Even the ATC who are actually really too simplified and who can't even correctly handle this by need 3h to answer a simple clear for start up/taxi and sometime just don't answer at all (with radio correctly turn on and frequency correctly setup).

 

 

So a third CPU core will permit :

 

_Fix most for the performance issue that customers actually have and provide better service.

_Permit experience and test for future development.

_Update the visual effect, adding new or just lets modders do it and officially integrate their work inside the simulator after this (everyone will be happy)

_Update AI with better performance including :

 

 

-New logic and strategy for global unit

-Collision avoidance improved

-Realistic ground attack profile with realistic timing (time its really important in simulation)

-Dogfight/BVR and interception improvement

-Realistic pilot error like over G, pass out, overspeed, crash cause of altitude or maneuver mistake, dogfight maneuver error

-Advanced flight model who handle better damage with crash landing or AI try to land with a wing and half of other and who can stall/roll and crash

-Formation flight/escort and follow task improved, maybe possibility follow pilot in close formation when loop or roll like aerobatic team

-Better communication with AI with improved Datalink/JTRS use and better communication and realistic detection

-Allow player to be wingman or any other in formation than the leader (like Falcon 4.0 the really old one can do)

-More realistic and advanced aeronautic procedure/maneuver and action

-Possibility to up to 12/16 or even more ship LFE (mainly with Nevada where a lot of Red Flag mission will be done)

-More AI aircraft without big performance issue

-More performance for route or formation following for ground and sea unit

 

_Improved ATC capable of better navigation, collision avoidance, holding pattern, ground navigation, mission control center (in real wars we don't send unit and lets them just be completely independent by group, all aircraft are manage by mission control center, its an important thing)

_Possibility to handle civil air traffic with rare helicopter and some aircraft like real life in training/light conflict situation and more performance for car traffic (and maybe Third party liner/civil aircraft).

_Possibility to handle airport follow me car, ground crew (important with F/A-18C who will adding carrier OPS) with Marshaler (with action subtitle for those who don't know it, even FSX have a mods for this http://www.simflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Marshaller-signalling-I-have-arrived-at-my-parking-location.jpg ) and guy for aircraft control surface check and even with advanced animation (created by modders why not) weapon specialist, rearming/refueling and other ground crew people.

_Optimize airport area (who make lag cause of the number of object, but take off and land its the most critical part of a standard flight, we must never lag at this part of the mission)

 

And a lot of other possibility, i have just mentioning the most important and the must have one.

 

A new core available will be one of the most important change ever after DCS World itself and before EDGE.

This touch about performance, bug, realism and quality.

 

And in a first time make new core exploitation available and export effect and AI inside will not be long and really hard to do.

Every codder with basic knowledge about core use will totally agree with me, a lot of amateur can today create software available in multicore use and make things like effect and AI using other application than the game is clearly what some modders do for FSX, we (user) can manually force core affinity for the game for a core and the modder's software in another core.

Its just an example but it was totally possible to do effect and AI in an isolated application and use this application in another core.

 

So this is my wishlist, my wish is a small step from the codder side and a giant leap for simulator future and performance issue.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Demongornot

[St3v3f]

Just on the topic of CPU vs. GPU

Don't overestimate the power of GPUs. Of course they have more flops than CPUs and they are a lot faster calculating some stuff. But think, if they were as awesome as you make them sound, then why does Intel still exists? Why hasn't Nvidia taken their place, after all, their GPUs must be so much better than the Intel CPUs?

 

The answer is simple. Because they aren't.

 

GPUs have their strong point in performing the same operation many times simultaneously. That's what they're build for. You have many many pixel that need to be calculated and you perform the same operation with different input on all them.

 

CPUs are universal. They don't parallelize things. But they have a significantly higher clock rate. And that means that they are faster in performing operations that influence each other. If the output of one operation is required as input for the next one, you can't run the second one before or simultaneously to the first. That is the weakness of GPUs and that is why we still have our Intel or AMD clockwork.

[sobek]

So this is my wishlist, my wish is a small step from the codder side and a giant leap for simulator future and performance issue.

 

Demongornot, with all due respect, you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. This is coming from someone who does programming for a living.

 

When you say that every programmer can today program stuff that uses 4 cores i'd say yes, you are right, because that's usually small apps that could run on a fraction of the CPU time they are using if coded properly. Coding a full blown sim to utilize several cores is a different beast entirely.

 

You are taking oranges to compare them to pomegranates as a base for your assumptions.

[tintifaxl]

Be it as complex as it may, but this has to be tackled in the near future.

 

If you look at the gains in computing power of a single core of a cpu there's not much in it - we know further development of the sim is limited.

[Demongornot]

And Skepticism is back again...

Damn, everyone with this kind of negative reaction do NOTHING except avoid a possible BIG and IMPORTANT update of the game, are you paid for defending the game and its actual feature/coding structure ?

 

 

Anyways for answer :

St3v3f :

First yes its Off topic, its a simple example and i'm still having right.

By your logic, my GPU card is 1,115 Ghz and memory is 1,5 ghz for a 3Go of internal memory, my graphic card have a single core...

My CPU have 3,5 Ghz base frequency and up to 4 Ghz in turbo mode on 4 core 4×4 = 16 Ghz and my Memory (16Go) run at 1,6 Ghz.

 

By your logic, my CPU are 10 time more powerful than my GPU and my memory for the same speed have easily in any condition (hard to fill 16 Go) more than 3Go available.

 

And by your logic, i can be able to play any game maxed out without GPU (just using a GPU for connect screen).

 

The example in my video its only for show that GPU its build FOR visual rending, you say yourself

 

GPUs have their strong point in performing the same operation many times simultaneously. That's what they're build for. You have many many pixel that need to be calculated and you perform the same operation with different input on all them.

 

I have never say that GPU are more powerful than CPU for everything, i have just say, for everything about graphic/rendering and a main part around the game they are, and even for physic, like this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cnp97EaW68 real time, and i have already try it.

I talk about CPU BASED game rather than (the logical thing) a GPU based game, example for old game like Red Alert, in this kind of game the only thing that your GPU do is work for you to see the scree, only the CPU use this game, bug its OK cause its a light game, but for a game like DCS World, its really bad, mainly when its under optimized and it don't take multicore (the famous winning duos).

 

Maybe i have not give enough details of what i talking about but in the context i was clearly talking about rendering and graphic, maybe physic and ability with GPU Computing too, but not about replacing everything with GPU, don't get me wrong.

But if we forget the game/rendering, physic and other side of what GPU are done for, i completely agree, CPU are way more powerful than GPU, but its not what i have say.

 

 

 

Sobek

I know what i talking about, my work is Inventor and its my job to having working idea and judge of the possibility of make it real, i never advance an idea without be sure that it can work.

 

If you real carefully the end of my topic i have say.

We can use an isolate application for AI and effect.

 

Its not a big deal, FSX its a great example of this, a lot of programs, some create by company with a certain number of codders like Just Flight with Traffic X, and other that was made by amateur who create random or programmed traffic, and we don't talk about the own codder of the game but external codder without access to the source code, Even AI Carrier or Follow Me car is both good example of the possibility to use AI in a separate application.

Its the same thing for effect, they are CPU based and it affect GPU, and i have a bug report about this (i will write it in the bug and problems part don't worry, but i will do some test and benchmark before for having more details about it) when explosion and smoke effect (from CBU 97 or any other bomb) are present, rather than use more power in my GPU and my CPU, both have a lower use at the same moment that i have performance drop, its the cause of the actual lag of everyone with smoke and other effect, and its cause it was CPU based.

 

 

And we can, like the AI use an isolated application for effect.

Its not the hardest thing to do and not the longest, and make run two different application in their own core its also not a big problem, and it can be a simple, costless and easy/fast to do solution that will make everyone happy, ED by having possibility to test and do a lot of thing in a separate core, customer by the possibility to having better performance and future feature etc etc.

 

So yes i will all due respect for you too, i know what i talking about and i also know that units possible to make easily separate application for some stuff that know that it was not easy or fast to just make a "full blown" sim itself using several core, but for two "different" programs its not an issue and even anyone with the core affinity in the task manager can force any programs to run on any core the use want.

 

 

 

Be it as complex as it may, but this has to be tackled in the near future.

 

If you look at the gains in computing power of a single core of a cpu there's not much in it - we know further development of the sim is limited.

 

Yes and no, everyone seem to think i talk about make the game itself running in 2 core + one for sound.

It is TOTALLY NOT, why everyone is stuck with this idea ?

I talk about making the game using separate apps for AI and effect.

Two core rather than a single its two time the same power, a CPU core its physically a second processor put next to the first, its not like having 4 processor for quadcore but its like having 4 processor who using common thing, like the cache memory, and the same bus, a 4 ghz CPU if its a quadcore its 4×4 ghz total power.

Effect consume way too much power, regardless the actual bug, it was since always in DCS/LOMAC/FC, use a separate app for this will change basically...Nothing, except that we will be able to same precious performance for the core who will run all the rest of the game part like physic, weather, aricraft and aircraft system, AI, map, ATC and way more feature.

In EVERY computer who having performance issue in DCS the CPU is the bottleneck, the GPU is fine and its here only for compensate what CPU do, he basically do nothing else than try to help the CPU based software, effect eat a lot of resource, make it run in another apps wont change anything, but make this "external" apps using another core will help a lot of people, and by the way we can use this core for run AI and other feature i have describe, cause AI are actually horrible (the worst i have ever see, really) and using the power of is own core will be better cause it will finally be able to create a better one, cause it will be possible to assign more computer power to the AI and do something better than simplified script, and if all of this are coded correctly, when way too much effect will be present the only thing who will happen will be a low FPS drop and a weird visual things from effect but no more huge FPS drop who make everyone crash.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Demongornot
Edit for answer to Tintifaxl

[neverminded]

Demongornot: 4x 4Ghz on a CPU are NOT 16Ghz. GPU and CPU Ghz cannot be compared to each other, as St3v3f said. So he is right.

As I see it, you don't have the vaguest idea, how difficult it is to do programming right and to have a program run over different cores. Especially, if that program already exists and has to be transformed in a program that uses all available cores (which could be 1 to 6 or even more!), Inventor or not.

Btw, have you had a look at your CPU workload when running FSX? It is using more than one CPU Core as good as DCS World.

[Luzifer]

By your logic, my GPU card is 1,115 Ghz and memory is 1,5 ghz for a 3Go of internal memory, my graphic card have a single core...

 

I don't think there even is such a thing as a graphics card with a single core anymore. The number of compute cores is typically measured in the dozens to hundreds.

[St3v3f]

By your logic, my GPU card is 1,115 Ghz and memory is 1,5 ghz for a 3Go of internal memory, my graphic card have a single core...

 

Modern GPUs have hundreds and are getting towards having thousands of Cores :)

Edited April 19, 2013 by St3v3f

[c0ff]

<Too many letters to read, stating, that we should use multicore ASAP.>

We are, and we will.

Edited April 19, 2013 by c0ff

[c0ff]

even if the sound process use its own core but i don't get why when we hear it, but its another thread

Can I ask you to elaborate?

[c0ff]

The question about effective use of multicore is of course a pretty legitimate and a hot one.

C++ code base of DCS is >1.5M lines of non-trivial and sometimes very complex code, which was mosty architectured in the single-CPU era.

The size of the team can be easily estimated using the about box of the game.

 

We are definitely moving to multicore, obviously it's the present and the future (if there's a future for PC's at all).

But DCS is our bread and butter and we just can't throw it away.

 

So the things are definitely moving, but not as fast as everyone, including us, wants.

Edited April 19, 2013 by c0ff

[c0ff]

Also, I'd keep myself from referencing FSX or Falcon4 or whatever 'great' game which ceased to exist as a Product. May be some of you dream about a company releasing super-duper-sim and then going bankrupt because of it.

 

We prefer to make everyone happy: make great sims and stay profitable to make even greater sims with fun and pleasure.

Edited April 19, 2013 by c0ff

[falcon_120]

I really think that was clear enough for everyone to understand, If they don't maybe they

just don't want to.

Thanks for the clarification c0ff.

[HiJack]

Thank you c0ff. I sure hope ED and the PC survives for a long time in the game business. It's a hard competition from other platforms I know.

[Demongornot]

Wow a lot of answer...

 

@Neverminded

The CPU is not 16 Ghz but its the equivalent, each core can be use with 4 Ghz, its not something like 4ghz for 4×1 or thing like 4Ghz available for a single core only if 3 other are not used, the CPU itself is not 16 ghz i agree but its the equivalent cause he can use 4 different application who need 4 Ghz each or just a software who can use 4 core.

And you don't have the vaguest idea of what i talking about and you have for sure (like everyone see to do here, but i can understand that no one read untill the end, it was long) don't read the end, one more time i don't talk about make the simulator using 2 core for itself + another for the sound, i talk about using AI and Effect as a split application, and separate application mean = easy possibility to use another CPU core.

I know how difficult it is to bring an already existing program by itself and in a single application inside multicore support and i also know that we have to totally rework the source code, that why i talk about split feature and make it using external apps who can EASILY be switch the any core we want, like mods and other addon for FSX who using their own apps like FS Passenger, Follow Me car, FS Traffic, AI Carrier and other things like this.

And i don't know if FSX have multicore support, but still NOT change what i talking about, in fact someone already do a software who really acting on the game, look at the clickable radio menu by PeterP : http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/84648/

It was not the perfect example of what i talking about, but it still be something close.

Anyways DCS using 2 core, one for the sim itself and another for the sound, if something like the sound can be exported with actual game structure, AI and effect can also be.

 

 

@Luzifer & St3v3f

If you have a 1ghz prrocessor, you can split it into billions of logical core as you want, it will still have 1 ghz.

Like the HT technology for CPU 4 physical core at 4 ghz CPU will still have 4×4 and not 4×8 Ghz with 8 logical core, each core have 2 Ghz available and if one take 3 Ghz his "brother" will only have 1 Ghz left, it can have how many core for all process he want, it will still have the SAME total computing power.

 

@C0ff

_I totally understand that you can't read all my thread but sadly you miss the most important part.

Yes i know that DCS will moving to multicore support, but not before a long time and probably only with EDGE.

My idea permit "immediate" change and improvement of visual effect/performance and AI

 

_What you mean by "Elaborate" ?

 

_And i know that.

And i understand what you say and if i just was saying : please move NOW DCS into multicore support, its answer will be clear and simple, but i have not say it even if, cause of my long post and cause of the title, it look like.

I and also know that for modifying the actual game and bring it to real multicore support it was long, complex and take a lot of process.

And i have already see the size of the team.

 

And yes multicore is the future and the present of PC, we already have 4 core, some have 6, and soon 8 and 12 will be really common.

 

And my solution was NOT a true multicore support in fact, just a temporary solution who can permit to using another CPU core and have better support with visual effect/performance, AI and available feature, ideal for Third party, community modders and for you ED team.

 

I know that visual effect, (maybe also physical effect like more advanced weather/aircraft vortex and turbulence can be adding) and AI can be split of the game main process and using they own executable, and another executable mean easy possibility for anyone to use core affinity and lets the game using 3 core and i know that using a single process in multicore support (what everyone think i talk about) its one of the most difficult task.

And my idea was available really fast cause split the CPU Based effect process and the AI in an external application its not the longest or the hardest task ever and who know it can maybe be available for the 1.2.4, cause i propose a really simple idea completely far away from make the whole game using multicore support, and Effect cost a lot of performance to everyone, and the AI are not the best and need to be improve and profit of more process power, so you can do both in the same time.

And actually visual effect have a problem (i will study it and post it into bugs and problems part of the forum) and everyone complain and have a real performance issue of FPS drop who can cause for 50% of the time a crash, it was a reallu big ussie, you can profit to correct this and make it using an external process rather than the main process of DCS, and it wont take anymore too much computing power in the core where it run, it mean big issue correction and better support, and AI also will probably change (even a little) for the use of multi position UH-1H helicopter, so it was also the best time for split AI to another process.

And like i have said, my idea can help you ED Team to work and experiment more actively a lot of new feature and possibility for the real multicore support.

I also know that in a first time split app for effect and AI wont give us a big performance change, but it will still a better performance than actually and permit to improve a lot of feature.

 

_And i agree, even if a lot of feature and optimization are missing DCS is great, and in the future, with global map and maybe civil aircraft support it will be way better than FSX or any other civil/military aircraft sim.

[c0ff]

_I totally understand that you can't read all my thread but sadly you miss the most important part.

Yes i know that DCS will moving to multicore support, but not before a long time and probably only with EDGE.

My idea permit "immediate" change and improvement of visual effect/performance and AI

 

1) EDGE has nothing to do with the simulation part. It's a graphic/terrain engine.

2) Sorry for missing your idea to split everything into separate executables/processes, which will then communicate with each other in a magical way.

 

SHAMELESSLY EDITED:

 

_What you mean by "Elaborate" ?

You've said" even if the sound process use its own core but i don't get why when we hear it, but its another thread"

I'm interested what did you mean exactly.

What's wrong with the sound from your point of view?

Edited April 19, 2013 by c0ff
Sorry for being rude.

[hypersonik]

I am running a single GTX480 with a I5 and getting great frames (30- 50-80) on maxed setting ; on the dust effect (GBU-87 is the exception).

 

Things will get better ; just not overnight ... as mentioned .

:thumbup:

[Demongornot]

1) EDGE has nothing to do with the simulation part. It's a graphic/terrain engine.

2) Sorry for missing your idea to split everything into separate executable/processes, which will then communicate with each other in a magical way.

 

I know that EDGE was a terrain engine, referring to what was announced it was with EDGE that multicore and probably multi GPU usage will be available.

EDGE was the perfect occasion to stop to using CPU based game and open to correct GPU usage, new terrain/graphic engine mean also big change in the code structure, almost everything have to be completely done another time, that the reason why Duck Nukem Forever took this long to be release, its cause the graphic engine was changed and it mean need to do one more time all code since almost the begin.

And the logical way will be to profit only of this for change the game main and source code rather than do it twice, but its your choice...

 

And magical ? so i'll send a mail to everyone who can make running mods/addons in another app for a lot of game with modding support and ask them to give me magic lesson, i have always dream to make appear a bunny from my hat...

Export ? he exporting level are enough for create a whole cockpit with ALL gauge, screen and anything working, the radio with TARS is another example of exporting/importing information to the game.

The main process will for sure have to calculate effect with things like position, time, size, duration and things like this, but its not what make the game lag, its the CPU based effect and it can be process by another core, it will not be the first time that effect will be computed by a separate apps.

 

Same for AI, they can use basic script for exporting data and rather than use completely expired script they can use way more and really profit of a real computing power with trajectory calculation and a lot of things that actual script are clearly completely unable to do.

 

For both AI and effect several AMATEUR have already do it for a lot some game or software with modding support.

 

 

For the sound i have already create a thread for explain how wring it is :

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104369

 

Now excuse me i will be unavailable for answer for a certain time, i will do the work of your tester team and make a bug report about the FPS drop caused by effect by collecting data.

 

 

I am running a single GTX480 with a I5 and getting great frames (30- 50-80) on maxed setting ; on the dust effect (GBU-87 is the exception).

 

Things will get better ; just not overnight ... as mentioned .

:thumbup:

 

I running on crossfire (disabled for DCS) HD7970 Lightning with a Ghz edition for the first slot one and an I7 3770k at native 3.5 and 3.9 with turbo overcloack to 4 Ghz with turbo and i don't have more FPS than you.

Also i have a lot of time constating LESS performance with minimum graphic and low screen definition than Max setting and maximum screen definition.

But yes i'm wrong and the sim was perfectly optimized, everyone know it...

Edited April 19, 2013 by Demongornot

[hypersonik]

But yes i'm wrong and the sim was perfectly optimized, everyone know it...

:prop:

just stating the fact that not everyone gets 10 FPS from some dust .Sure its not perfectly optimized & could be better ... time to wait for EDGE.

[Luzifer]

@Luzifer & St3v3f

If you have a 1ghz prrocessor, you can split it into billions of logical core as you want, it will still have 1 ghz.

Like the HT technology for CPU 4 physical core at 4 ghz CPU will still have 4×4 and not 4×8 Ghz with 8 logical core, each core have 2 Ghz available and if one take 3 Ghz his "brother" will only have 1 Ghz left, it can have how many core for all process he want, it will still have the SAME total computing power.

That… does not even make sense.

[NineLine]

 

Now excuse me i will be unavailable for answer for a certain time, i will do the work of your tester team and make a bug report about the FPS drop caused by effect by collecting data.

 

 

Please do, I have not found a FPS drop from sound on my very modest machine. But if you have noticed an issue you should report it for sure.

 

Just out of curiosity do you use on-board sound or a separate sound card?

[Demongornot]

Please do, I have not found a FPS drop from sound on my very modest machine. But if you have noticed an issue you should report it for sure.

 

Just out of curiosity do you use on-board sound or a separate sound card?

 

The bug is really big, everytime a big explosion/visual effect is present on the sim, GPU and CPU usage decrease, its the cause of the FPS drop.

I have done a video and i just compressing it now it will be long cause its a 20 minutes UHD video, i have record it from my camcorder for avoid any other FPS drop than the game itself, FPS is running but only for show FPS, nothing more.

Its not from sound, but the have also constating CPU usage drop in the core where the sound of DCS run.

 

Its the onboard sound card of my MSI Z77A-GD65 (really nice sound card inside) shot board.

It was recorded using a Stereo mode (i have also try with my Razer Tiamat who use 7.1, my Tritton Ax Pro who using optical and my G930 in USB who using its own sound card (even if the motherboard/PCI-E sound card of user can help the Logitech, but i have no sound card installed except a little USB one since some day and only for a microphone, it don't have any interaction and the one of my Motherboard) and all sound issue i have already report for the sound don't change, regardless which sound device i use, and i was experienced it with old computer who having a Asus P6T SE without sound card and G930/ Hifi -> "Philips C355 mini hifi system".

With or without mods.

 

I was compressing the video (two time for faster youtube upload) and i will create a new topic in "bugs and problems" part of the forum with the link.

 

@hypersonik

Yes the problem is random, some people with huge config have bad performance and some with smaller PC have better performance with same graphic settings, those who don't get 10 fps are lucky, it still be really badly optimized.

 

@Luzifer

Ok so i'm wrong and you're right, i remember now that when i split into 3 identical pipe a main one with 1L/minute, i obtain 3 litter by minutes...

I brb i will ask to my bank if i can get 3 account with 500 $/€ each by split in 3 a 500$/€ single account.

[NineLine]

The bug is really big, everytime a big explosion/visual effect is present on the sim, GPU and CPU usage decrease, its the cause of the FPS drop.

I have done a video and i just compressing it now it will be long cause its a 20 minutes UHD video, i have record it from my camcorder for avoid any other FPS drop than the game itself, FPS is running but only for show FPS, nothing more.

Its not from sound, but the have also constating CPU usage drop in the core where the sound of DCS run.

 

Its the onboard sound card of my MSI Z77A-GD65 (really nice sound card inside) shot board.

It was recorded using a Stereo mode (i have also try with my Razer Tiamat who use 7.1, my Tritton Ax Pro who using optical and my G930 in USB who using its own sound card (even if the motherboard/PCI-E sound card of user can help the Logitech, but i have no sound card installed except a little USB one since some day and only for a microphone, it don't have any interaction and the one of my Motherboard) and all sound issue i have already report for the sound don't change, regardless which sound device i use, and i was experienced it with old computer who having a Asus P6T SE without sound card and G930/ Hifi -> "Philips C355 mini hifi system".

With or without mods.

 

I was compressing the video (two time for faster youtube upload) and i will create a new topic in "bugs and problems" part of the forum with the link.

 

@hypersonik

Yes the problem is random, some people with huge config have bad performance and some with smaller PC have better performance with same graphic settings, those who don't get 10 fps are lucky, it still be really badly optimized.

 

@Luzifer

Ok so i'm wrong and you're right, i remember now that when i split into 3 identical pipe a main one with 1L/minute, i obtain 3 litter by minutes...

I brb i will ask to my bank if i can get 3 account with 500 $/€ each by split in 3 a 500$/€ single account.

 

They are aware of visual effects (explosions/smoke) and the issues with FPS they are causing and are working on a fix.

[sobek]

It has already been confirmed that the FPS drops are being adressed by creating a new effect. Please understand that this takes time.

 

Edit: Sniped by a Sith. I would have at least expected something close and personal. :P;)

[NineLine]

It has already been confirmed that the FPS drops are being adressed by creating a new effect. Please understand that this takes time.

 

Edit: Sniped by a Sith. I would have at least expected something close and personal. :P;)

 

 

My lightsaber is at the shop getting tuned... :)