Pilot Body for all DCS Modules Plea - toggle-able as is for Ka50 and P51

[zaelu]

I wish in cockpit pilot body will be added for all DCS Modules or at least details of how such feature could be moded by community should be released.

 

There was discussions about it here and there but no conclusion about it. And the situation is weird. Some planes have it... some don't. Old planes have at least the legs... now the new cockpits don't. I think the direction should be towards adding features and not removing them... especially useful ones.

 

DCS World is going towards a simulation of a airplanes world and not for a sterile avionics simulation so with each "natural" feature it is going closer towards that goal. Pilots, birds, civilian air traffic, atmosphere, etc.

 

It is a pitty that we have cool first person ejections and parachute gliding and walking on ground (be it as crude as it is at this moment) but not a complete natural cockpit.

 

Arguments pro:

 

1. Immersion

2. Movie making

3. Kneeboards

4. Toggleable

 

Arguments against:

 

1. Resources

2. Weird/bad view point design in some cockpits

 

Is it possible/wanted?

Edited April 26, 2013 by zaelu

[Kenan]

No. I want a clear view of every possible part of the cockpit.

[zaelu]

@Kenan

OK, would you make a plea for removing the pilot body in Ka50 and P51?

 

 

 

In the title I said "Togglea-able" like in Ka50 and P51... not mandatory. Also one of the arguments pro (4) was stating the same. I don't think I have to use a lawyer language full of disclaimers and warnings and caution full phrases do I? Why do you "react" without reading? Why in the earth would ED make pilot body mandatory fixed in cockpit???

 

Of course optional/togle-able.

 

 

Also... it is funny when someone says:

 

Hey would you like to have an optional thing like this?

No! I want to impose my "no thing" option for you!

 

nice...

Edited April 26, 2013 by zaelu

[nomdeplume]

Never used it in the Ka-50, wouldn't use it in the A-10, so I voted don't care. :)

[knapsak]

I used to try it in the Ka-50 but its not for me so I also Don't really care.

[TC]

No.

IMO there are some many things that would need attention, thus resources I wouldn´t want ED waste a single manhour doing this.

If I want to see legs I´ll look down :)

 

Cheers

TC

[zaelu]

Anyway i think there are a lot more important things that ED should focus on.

 

I agree. However... some features that look trivial for some are nice to see for others. Some features are even implemented by ED although many say are not needed. Examples:

 

-DCS P51 - was born out of free time work of one ED member and opened the gate for WW2 era planes.

-Pilot body in Ka50 (toggle-able :P ) was introduced with all kinds of animations... the pilot even makes some gestures after landing with the chute. Not a very top priority feature i suppose.

-Pilot body in P51 moves legs and arms from external view.

-Visceral 1st person bail out sequence from P51 which adds a bit of drama to the moment.

-Small animation of the gunsight range wire in P51

-Gazillions of cockpit lightning possibilities in Ka50, P51, A10C.

 

etc.

 

For each of the above if someone made a plea for them before they were added some people would have come and said... "Oh... drop it... is not necessary"...

[Wolf Rider]

4. Toggleable (would have to clean cockpit by default)

[Ali Fish]

choice is a good idea. but... unfortunatly this ground has been tread upon before.

 

I would like pilots for all aircraft so that our track playback abbility has the highest immersion factor. surely thats good enough reason to implement this choice ?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Ali Fish

[recoilfx]

Forget pilot body, some form of pilot health modeling is good enough for me! Right now it's next to impossible to get wounded.

[zaelu]

Why not both? Why forget the body? Why this charge on negativity?

 

And how would you represent health without the body anyway? A health bar? Where? And what is suppose to mean? If you are wounded you are incapacitated and are going to get killed if you are not RTB.

 

And what kind of wounds could you "digitally" express? Glass cuts in your face? Disorientation after a large boom near you? Limb torn off? Bleeding? Cause you don't get flu in the cockpit you know...

 

Usually the damages a human body can take inside a warplane cockpit that are not lethal but also don't deserve or need graphic representation are just bare simple incapacity on operating the controls... which leads directly to crash or limping with minimum controls to base.

 

And don't forget that rarely the pilot gets hit and wounded but the aircraft is untouched... usually the plane is worse.

[recoilfx]

Why not both? Why forget the body? Why this charge on negativity?

 

And how would you represent health without the body anyway? A health bar? Where? And what is suppose to mean? If you are wounded you are incapacitated and are going to get killed if you are not RTB.

 

And what kind of wounds could you "digitally" express? Glass cuts in your face? Disorientation after a large boom near you? Limb torn off? Bleeding? Cause you don't get flu in the cockpit you know...

 

Usually the damages a human body can take inside a warplane cockpit that are not lethal but also don't deserve or need graphic representation are just bare simple incapacity on operating the controls... which leads directly to crash or limping with minimum controls to base.

 

And don't forget that rarely the pilot gets hit and wounded but the aircraft is untouched... usually the plane is worse.

 

Both (body 3d model and health modeling) would be good - I was simply expressing that I'd be happy enough if basic body health is modeled.

 

Pilot injury is a real thing and especially relevant in planes with little armor protection. It doesn't have to be super detailed, something simliar to IL2 is enough( IMO, that is).

 

No need for health bars. Headshot equals instant death. Body injury results in red vision. Can't pull the stick as hard, and gets blacked out faster, etc...

 

Anyways, I'll stop here, didn't mean to derail the conversation...

[pii]

I wish in cockpit pilot body will be added for all DCS Modules or at least details of how such feature could be moded by community should be released.

 

There was discussions about it here and there but no conclusion about it. And the situation is weird. Some planes have it... some don't. Old planes have at least the legs... now the new cockpits don't. I think the direction should be towards adding features and not removing them... especially useful ones.

 

DCS World is going towards a simulation of a airplanes world and not for a sterile avionics simulation so with each "natural" feature it is going closer towards that goal. Pilots, birds, civilian air traffic, atmosphere, etc.

 

It is a pitty that we have cool first person ejections and parachute gliding and walking on ground (be it as crude as it is at this moment) but not a complete natural cockpit.

 

Arguments pro:

 

1. Immersion

2. Movie making

3. Kneeboards

4. Toggleable

 

Arguments against:

 

1. Resources

2. Weird/bad view point design in some cockpits

 

Is it possible/wanted?

 

So how is this done in the ka 50 and p51? I don't see anything that says pilot toggle. I would love to see ED document what all the key combos actually do. Some of them are down right baffling as to what the functions are/do.

[Cake]

Both (body 3d model and health modeling) would be good - I was simply expressing that I'd be happy enough if basic body health is modeled.

 

Pilot injury is a real thing and especially relevant in planes with little armor protection. It doesn't have to be super detailed, something simliar to IL2 is enough( IMO, that is).

 

No need for health bars. Headshot equals instant death. Body injury results in red vision. Can't pull the stick as hard, and gets blacked out faster, etc...

 

Anyways, I'll stop here, didn't mean to derail the conversation...

 

I'm not sure that we need FPS-like injury effects. I agree totally on the headshot thing, but not on the red vision. We can't really model effects like blood loss or hypoxia well. I personally do not get an visual effects from pulling less than 6g, can't say beyond that, but I know this effects different people differently. I tend to feel the effects as fatigue after the flight, but I don't get to do this kind of flying much. On the other hand, I recognize the effects of hypoxic hypoxia, but don't get headaches from it like some people do. Certainly, we don't want to model an average person's health when it comes to this. I think that black out modeling should never be stronger than what the most highly G tolerant person on earth would experience. After all, my age hardened arteries should be good for something ;)

 

What we need is for a good "unrealistic" cue to tell us approximately what G the airplane we are exposed to at any point in time. Looking at a g meter is unrealitic for this. In a real airplane, our kinesthetic sense should be giving us cues we can't get in the sim, even if we are looking away from the panel.

[cichlidfan]

So how is this done in the ka 50 and p51? I don't see anything that says pilot toggle. I would love to see ED document what all the key combos actually do. Some of them are down right baffling as to what the functions are/do.

 

Seriously, 'Show Pilot Body' is baffling?

 

 

 

Btw, I voted no since ED is a small team with limited resources and I consider the pilot body to be a waste of those resources.

Edited April 26, 2013 by cichlidfan

[pii]

Seriously, 'Show Pilot Body' is baffling?

 

 

 

Btw, I voted no since ED is a small team with limited resources and I consider the pilot body to be a waste of those resources.

 

Did I hurt your feeling or something?

 

Seriously I didn't say ALL were but finding random combos that you have no idea what they may be called can be hard to do. You'll notice its not in "Views", which is where I would think to look, and I then looked for a toggle option, but again no go, I then looked through "all" but probably was cross-eyed by all the options and small print and missed it. EXCUSE ME! Under "General" pfffttt who would have thought? I suppose it makes perfect since ,to you, to list a view options under "General?" Silly me:doh:

 

Even things that are common to each module sometimes have different names so yes it can be baffling.

 

Thanks for the help but the added BS comment wasn't needed.

BTW it doesn't even work any more in ka-50 but yet its still there so hmmm baffling.

Edited April 26, 2013 by pii

[zaelu]

Seriously, 'Show Pilot Body' is baffling?

Btw, I voted no since ED is a small team with limited resources and I consider the pilot body to be a waste of those resources.

 

 

This is why in original post I said (besides the obvious but disregarded by many "Toggle-able") that this "feature" could be developed by moders from community if info is provided!

 

I didn't touch 3Dsmax in the last 10 years but iirc you can create simple skeletal animations by just attaching the limbs to some moving points... that would be: stick,throttles,rudder pedals and the arse of the pilot to the seat.

 

We have a pilot for P51 and one for Ka50. Those pilots are not from outer space and they fit quite well any plane or heli. Even their animations are not mind boggling different from the ones required for other aircrafts... We don't have F16 yet also no Macchi to have to turn off or switch some animations.

 

 

Maybe the pilot body will not look perfect for all planes but lets remember that neither the the A10C HUD looks really natural and that is an important object in the pit.

[Wolf Rider]

 

EXCUSE ME! Under "General" pfffttt who would have thought? I suppose it makes perfect since ,to you, to list a view options under "General?" Silly me:doh:

 

 

 

 

Pilot Body, isn't a view item though, and General (listing) is the perfect place for the option. There ain't nuttin' hard or baffling about it :music_whistling:

[pii]

Pilot Body, isn't a view item though, and General (listing) is the perfect place for the option. There ain't nuttin' hard or baffling about it :music_whistling:

 

Oh so turning on an object so i can "VEIW" it shouldn't be a view option but a "genera" option? :doh:Thanks for clearing that up. Guess I'm not the super genius you are.:cry:

 

But since you're such an expert prehaps you can explain what the heck "general" even means when it come to the commands they place there and why you think veiw pilot belongs there? You know, something other than "because I say so" :music_whistling: <-Back at you

 

What's really baffling is why you got so butt hurt over me thinking some of their commands and their placement baffle me? Did you have something to do with them?

[SmokeyTheLung]

I love the pilot body option and wish it was a feature on all the aircraft.

 

Did anyone ever find out why the A-10c was left out?

[pii]

I love the pilot body option and wish it was a feature on all the aircraft.

 

Did anyone ever find out why the A-10c was left out?

 

Yeah it looks pretty cool in the p51.

[Wolf Rider]

 

Thanks for the help but the added BS comment wasn't needed.

 

 

... or your attitude, so "right back at you" :lol:

 

 

 

ps you dropped the letter l :huh:

[pii]

... or your attitude, so "right back at you" :lol:

 

 

 

ps you dropped the letter l :huh:

 

My attitude was fine until I basically got attacked for my opinion. I explained my position on the topic, said thanks and said the negitive comments wasn't needed. Whats wrong with that?

 

Then you had to stick your nose in it, so feel free to explain what was wrong with my "attitude" before you stuck your "attitude" into the middle of the conversation? Which by the way added nothing other than some more negitivity and your "attitude".

 

I also noticed you couldn't answer any of my questions. Why am I not surprised.

[MemphisBelle]

I love the pilot body option and wish it was a feature on all the aircraft.

 

Did anyone ever find out why the A-10c was left out?

 

As far as I know the main reason is the huge amount of work which would be necessary to accomplish this (in my eyes awesome feature...yes, I voted for yes :D ).

 

I have read somewhere that to make the Pilotbody possible, the whole Cockpit would need to be recreated with the extra information...whatever this means.

[Oznerol256]

As far as I know the main reason is the huge amount of work which would be necessary to accomplish this (in my eyes awesome feature...yes, I voted for yes :D ).

 

I have read somewhere that to make the Pilotbody possible, the whole Cockpit would need to be recreated with the extra information...whatever this means.

 

AFAIK The virtual cockpit is optimized to be show useful on your screen. If you put a pilot body in you would need to distort it. This would look extremly ugly. However, if you recreate the cockpit without the optimizations, the pilot body will look right, however, it may be hard to reach some buttons. In the Mig-21Bis the cockpit is soo small in real life. Many buttons would be covered by the pilots arms and legs.