control tips

[WildBillKelsoe]

Yeah, I had to do it all again cos I landed on the wrong pad and exited before seeing mission success lol. gonna go out and make me an extension to my cougar now.

 

Way past that now. Picking up trash. I dare say I now crash softly as opposed to last night when all I did was crash to death. Just need to set some curves on the sweet spot for hovering. I think we should rely heavily on ground effect with this one. Man! The shark was way tonnes easier to fly. maybe some day, someone will consider a cross-breeding and give us Chornaya Huey! well, off then to more practice and more Bravo Sierra off Capt. Benedito, that old coot!!

[Fuggzy]

By the way, I know most of us here gag at the mention of "game mode", but actually in the Huey game flight mode is the same FM, just with heavily increased damping. For those who really cannot configure their hardware for acceptable control levels, it is an option worth considering.

 

For the future, we are considering some kind of "damper" slider, similar to the "takeoff assist" in the P-51D.

 

EvilBivol,

Thank you for that suggestion! I spent my first 6 hours tweaking, re-tweaking, and tweaking again all of my axis curves and anything else I could come up with to get better control of the beast with my Cougar HOTAS. After watching the very helpful youtube videos on how to fly right and using the Controls Indicator panel to finally absorb the fact that I was massively over-controlling, I finally got to a state where I could manage to takeoff, kinda hover ok, and land without breaking anything once in a while. But even then, I was dismayed at the sheer amount of work and concentration it takes just to fly ugly but without crashing. I was beginning to think that the severe difficulty was going to take the shine off the sim for me.

 

I switched to the Game Flight Mode just to see, and WOW! :worthy: The flight model is just as complex and satisfying as it was in Realistic mode, but the extra dampening does wonders to make it ENJOYABLE to fly! Now it flies quite exactly like I had imagined it should, where all of the physics effects and forces are still in play as they should be on an old school chopper without flight stabilization computers, but the feeling like I'm constantly trying to balance a golf ball on the head of a pin is gone. A couple of smooth flights around the base later, I went to bed and slept well and happy. Can't wait to dive into the sim now. Thank you so much for the suggestion to try Game Flight mode. I'll admit that it hurt my soul to even click that choice (I'm a realism snob in every sim, so this act felt like heresy), but once I tried it I realized I'm just going to have to stifle my own ego and keep it that way. It really does fly sweet and I swear it feels even MORE realistic to me than in Realistic Flight mode.

[westr]

I have tried something and it has helped me improve so I thought id post it here and maybe it will help someone else. Under the control options you have Ins Cyclic stick and in that menu you have left right Up and down. If you assign these to something on your HOTAS so you can keep your hands on the Cyclic you can make precise adjustments to the trim position of your cyclic. As I approach I set the trim to the ideal position for a hover and find im not fighting the controls so much to maintain a good attitude for landing and eventually the hover I can concentrate more on my collective and rudder inputs and not enter into a vortex. In short im not trying to hold my stick in the right position and depress the trim button. Also like someone has previously posted try not to enter into a hover at to high an altitude. It has helped me to become a bit smoother on the controls and I think I can improve with this method.

[cichlidfan]

By the way, I know most of us here gag at the mention of "game mode", but actually in the Huey game flight mode is the same FM, just with heavily increased damping.

 

Thanks for the tip EB. There is apparently an issue with Game Flight (not Avionics) Mode. The 'Lifebar' is turned on (I had to look at the quick start guide to figure out what it was) even though I do not have Game Avionics on.

 

Note: Even the folks that want to play in full game mode will probably find the lifebar to be rather too large and too bright green. My two cents.

[mmaruda]

I was supposed to try the game mode, but after so much time spent in realistic mode, I feel like I am getting the hand of things. Everyone who still has problems hovering, falling into vortex ring, slowing down - just practice.

 

A couple of useful tips:

-watch you instruments, the artificial horizon is the most important one - if you keep it centred, you will be able to do a stable hover.

-each input you make will result in a counter-action from the heli, you need to anticipate that and correct slightly before it happens and than correct the correction... until infinity. :) Basically after you get it, you will find that you are moving your stick like a metronome.

-the collective is key to slowing down and losing altitude. Try going lower by diving and turning to lose speed. Watch your VVI while doing this. Whenever it shows around -5 you are like to go vortex. You need to pull the collective to counter that, but at the same time remember that the chopper likes to exaggerate, so you are likely to ascend. So... same as with the cyclic - constantly move the collective up and down and observe the VVI to keep the indicator where you want it. Again, anticipation is key here. If you see the indicator going up towards zero, you can be damn sure it will show +5 in 2 seconds.

 

This sim requires constant control inputs and close observations of the instruments to keep the indicators where you want them. An ideal stick would be something soft and precise with a long throw. I use a CH setup, with curves at 30. It's not bad, but something with 4 times the resolution would be in order here.

 

I was eager for some dampening special options to make it easier with my HOTAS, but now I am not sure I want it. Controlling this legendary helicopter and being able to fly where I want and land where I want (even if my flying is a bit goofy) makes me feel... make me feel... damn awesome I guess! :D

[xcom]

Few tips -

1. Collective sensetivity - The Huey gets his power from the collective mostly, now it has no coaxial effect that the Ka-50 has and no stablizers, this means that for every increasing collective you will have to compensate with rudder (Hovering only) until a certain point which the rudder can't counter the tourque impact.

So, what this means? It means that we should basicly be using a very limited % of the collective, after some tests I see that the needed sensetivity is between 20%-70% of the collective area, I went on and changed the axis tune of the collective, here is my setup -

 

{combos = {{key = "JOY_SLIDER1", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = true, curvature = {0.08, 0.28, 0.39, 0.46, 0.51, 0.54, 0.57, 0.61, 0.67, 0.81, 0.97}}}, }, action = iCommandPlaneCollective, name = "Flight Control Collective"},

 

Notice that between 20-70 % we get good sesetivity.

 

2. X and Y Axis curveture - For hovering I noticed that I was making very slim adjustments and it gets interperted to much more movment in the Huey, I went on and set my curveture to -25 for buth of them, seems to be very good for me, but it should be adjusted for any individual.

 

 

{combos = {{key = "JOY_Y", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {0.25}}}, }, action = iCommandPlanePitch, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Pitch"},
{combos = {{key = "JOY_X", filter = {saturationX = 1, saturationY = 1, deadzone = 0, invert = false, slider = false, curvature = {0.25}}}, }, action = iCommandPlaneRoll, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Roll"},

 

 

3. Trimming positions - There should be basicly 2 trimming positions you need to do, the first is the trim position that is shown in the hovering video, stick alittle back and to the left, rudder 1/4 left, this should help you hover pretty good.

The 2nd trimming position is for flight, It is basicly 2/5 forward and just abit to the right while the diamond is still on the vertical line.

 

With these settings and trims I can hover and do flights much better than before.

 

Good luck :joystick:

Xcom

[todd022]

Xcom, you using a TM warthog?

[Rotorhead]

I was kindly surprised how that "muscle memory" thing works. After first two das, I was crashing all over the place. Not only I wasn't able to hold position even roughly, but not even my heading using pedals, making hovering even harder.

 

Third day, after having a good sleep, I was still fighting the cyclic, but to my surprise, I was able to hold heading without even thinking about it! My feet have "learned" what they are intended to do, and I could concentrate more on my hands instead.

 

Even my hovering is much better now. I can hold her within 10 feet or so, and still improving. Don't want to talk big about myself, but I was really surprised by making such a progress in few days (given that I suck at anything that requires coordination of more than two limbs :music_whistling:).

 

Yes, I have still lots to learn and I know that progress rate is usually highest at the start and gradually drops. If even expert pilots took years to learn it right, I will be happy to learn it in my life. But if somebody like me can learn basics of hovering within three days, I think everybody can.

 

Just practice guys, and then practice some more. But don't sweat it too much. Take breaks, have some sleep, go outside, and then practice again. It surely works for me. :thumbup:

[xcom]

I'm using Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2, Thats why I needed to change the axis controls a lot, this stick has a small throttle.

[Grenadey]

By the way, I know most of us here gag at the mention of "game mode", but actually in the Huey game flight mode is the same FM, just with heavily increased damping. For those who really cannot configure their hardware for acceptable control levels, it is an option worth considering.

 

For the future, we are considering some kind of "damper" slider, similar to the "takeoff assist" in the P-51D.

This, unfortunately, is the option I've had to go for with the G940. Without the heavy damping the slop in the 940 means constant oscillation in straight and level flight even after trimming and hovering/landing are certainly not pretty.

 

In contrast I can throw the Shark around and can dance with that thing at low/slow and hover.

 

A 'Damping slider' would be an excellent addition for those of us with inferior hardware.

 

Grenadey

[mmaruda]

It's the same with any other stick, you just need to correct all the time. This is not a lazy-ass heli like the shark is, where you can take off, trim, set course, engage AP route follow and go make a coffee. In Capitalist 'Murica the helicopter does not fly you. :)

[Vlerkies]

I was kindly surprised how that "muscle memory" thing works. :thumbup:

 

Indeed!!!! as with anything one does that requires some finesse.

A little fine tuning on the controller front and a 'lot of practice' make the world of difference!

 

 

:thumbup:

[Grenadey]

It's the same with any other stick, you just need to correct all the time. This is not a lazy-ass heli like the shark is, where you can take off, trim, set course, engage AP route follow and go make a coffee. In Capitalist 'Murica the helicopter does not fly you. :)

I do understand that some work is required :) and was not expecting the learning phase to be easy in any way, shape or form. My point being that when you cannot adjust the curvature of the axes because you use a FFB stick then the workload is more and the effects more exaggerated than for a stick where some curve has been added to enable finer control.

 

Grenadey

 

Edit: As Vlerkies points out above, 'A little fine tuning on the controller front....'.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Grenadey
Cross-reference.

[Vlerkies]

What curve are you trying to run Grenadey? Maybe someone else with the same setup can offer some input.

Havent used a FFB stick in years but do the minor adjustments to cyclic (mainly) affect it that much?

Edited May 4, 2013 by Vlerkies

[Grounded]

Huey stable like KA-50

 

I had a lot of problems controlling the Huey at slow speed, hover and landing with my Thrustmaster HOTAS, but after adjusting the axis Y-saturation to 40-50 in both cyclic pitch/roll, it actually feels like the KA-50. With more sticktime you can raise the values back to 100, but as a starting point you will get a fairly stable heli. Of course you need to trim a lot as the Huey picks up speed due to the limited input values. Btw I set the value for saitek pro flight rudder to X-saturation 70.

Hope it makes sense.

[Grenadey]

What curve are you trying to run Grenadey? Maybe someone else with the same setup can offer some input.

Havent used a FFB stick in years but do the minor adjustments to cyclic (mainly) affect it that much?

None at all at the moment as it upsets force trim. I am about to try experimenting with SimFFB (referenced in the UH1 FAQ for FFB) as then FFB in DCS can be turned off and some curvature added to the cyclic.

 

I'll report back the results of my experimentation as I can't be the only person who still has a G940! ;)

 

Grenadey

[Vlerkies]

I can't be the only person who still has a G940! ;)

 

Grenadey

 

Yup, what I was eluding to.

 

I think the huey module defaults at 30 for curves for cyclic, i have mine at 10 now on the hog hotas, found that less was better in my case.

[wess24m]

So I just found something that helped me A LOT. leave the gun reticle up when you fly, since we don't have a prominent hud it helps you stay oriented to the horizon. Gives you reference without having to look down at the HUD, also allows you to zoom out quite a bit so you're not trying to fly "through a straw".

[Wichid]

I use 34 curve on pitch and roll and 15 on rudder.

 

Take a look at my latest flight - first half is formation (mostly) second half is a bit different. At no point do I use the autopilot.

 

[Suchacz]

I'm using extended G940.

 

I begun with curvature 25, but I'm lowering it with gained experience. Now I'm trying to fly her with zero curvature. I found, that non-linear input can be more confusing than helpful...

[Newspeedy]

Saitek X52

 

I setted my saturation of the roll and pitch to 60 in the Y axes, for the collective i putted it on 70 in the Y axes,... no curves

 

seems it's easyer to handel

[wess24m]

I'm using extended G940.

 

I begun with curvature 25, but I'm lowering it with gained experience. Now I'm trying to fly her with zero curvature. I found, that non-linear input can be more confusing than helpful...

 

I agree, it's ok if you're just going to be working on air-taxi and hovering. The video I just posted is full linear with a TMWarthog. I think a lot of people just think they're doing something wrong and mess with the curves, just like anything else it takes time and LOTS of practise.

[Tinman]

Try the following user curve on your axis tune panel for cyclic:

 

0 2 5 10 18 28 42 57 71 86 100

 

Thank you!

I just gave your curve-settings a try and it worked like a charm! :thumbup: Felt good. I even made some landings with only little forward movement.

[Cake]

Anyway, I don't know how drastically the Robinson R-22 and UH-1H Huey differ in flight characteristics (and I'm sure a great deal), but from my single hour in the sky at the controls of a chopper it feels about right.

 

I suspect a gentle touch and a lot of practice are all that's necessary.

 

According to a friend who has been thinking about buying a Robinson, and who was also an Army Huey pilot, he didn't like the R22 because it was 'twitchy' and not very stable compared to what he was used to. He tried the R44 and liked it much better.

[bthrun]

Hi everyone. This is m first post, and the DCS models are my first real try at flight simulators. I'm really enjoying DCS world, and especially the UH-1H Huey. I've tried to avoid curves and saturation changes, but after a couple days of making no progress at all, I broke down. I'm currently using a Y saturation of 75 and a curvature of 10 on both pitch and roll and it's made a big difference. Using the trimmer much more, but I think that's helped as well. Would it be a bad idea to use saturation on the rudder, as it isn't affected by trim?