03 and 07 May 2013 Updates

[upupandaway]

To me, ED has not deviated from what they announced regarding HiFi / LoFi modules: Matt mentionned the "FC3+" Su27 and F-15C with AFM as "F-15C Eagle and Su-27 Flanker for DCS World"

DCS F-15C and DCS Su27 will be when they are available with the full avionics.

 

Not really, it´s just the part of the future roadmap that doesn´t go well with people, because there is a little turn in the road ahead. When available, they will becomes DCS-modules.

[Kaktus29]

many posters are missing a point.. ED actually tries to hide it as well.. what they are trying to do is using "stealthy" moves to de-finance themselves from LockON franchise and bleeding percentage of profits every time they sell FC3 to Ubisoft..

 

They want to have DCS and only DCS, so if they sell anything DCS it goes to their coffers only..

 

FC3 and FC2 and all the rest is just a drag they had to endure at the moment but not anymore.. so they want to upgrade a little bit (adding AFM is quite an upgrade btw) and deliver the modules to the DCS world..

 

Did they choose bad words when they announced DCS 15/27?yes, but i don't think it was intentionally, .. because it is DCS 15/27 since they will exist in that world but they will not be DCS moduled like A-10C or BS .. which is okei.. for the time being..

 

They need to get rid of Ubisoft overcast and re-market themselves with DCS worldwide and to new customer base.. after that i think DCS hi-fi modules will start coming out.. sadly for us waiting simmers it means waiting for 2 years or more before we get some serious hi-fi modules like 15/27.. man, i would enjoy just about anything DCS right now.. give me a Il-76, or A320, Tu-204.. )lol..

[Yskonyn]

many posters are missing a point.. ED actually tries to hide it as well.. what they are trying to do is using "stealthy" moves to de-finance themselves from LockON franchise and bleeding percentage of profits every time they sell FC3 to Ubisoft..

 

They want to have DCS and only DCS, so if they sell anything DCS it goes to their coffers only..

 

FC3 and FC2 and all the rest is just a drag they had to endure at the moment but not anymore.. so they want to upgrade a little bit (adding AFM is quite an upgrade btw) and deliver the modules to the DCS world..

 

Did they choose bad words when they announced DCS 15/27?yes, but i don't think it was intentionally, .. because it is DCS 15/27 since they will exist in that world but they will not be DCS moduled like A-10C or BS .. which is okei.. for the time being..

 

They need to get rid of Ubisoft overcast and re-market themselves with DCS worldwide and to new customer base.. after that i think DCS hi-fi modules will start coming out.. sadly for us waiting simmers it means waiting for 2 years or more before we get some serious hi-fi modules like 15/27.. man, i would enjoy just about anything DCS right now.. give me a Il-76, or A320, Tu-204.. )lol..

 

That is a good point.

Oftentimes they have explained the burden that LockOn/FC lays on progression because that brand is still owned by Ubisoft.

[upupandaway]

Did they choose bad words when they announced DCS 15/27?yes, but i don't think it was intentionally, .. because it is DCS 15/27 since they will exist in that world but they will not be DCS moduled like A-10C or BS .. which is okei.. for the time being..

 

Good point overall.

At some point I started to wonder if they really proof-read the update- and poadmap posts because there usually are several obvious typos in them. dont´consider all this as an attempt at deception.

[chev255]

Did they choose bad words when they announced DCS 15/27?yes, but i don't think it was intentionally, .. because it is DCS 15/27 since they will exist in that world but they will not be DCS moduled like A-10C or BS .. which is okei.. for the time being..

 

Again, DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27 will exist as full high fidelity products, but not in near future.

What we may get this year is F-15C for DCS World and SU-27 for DCS World.

[Kuky]

It's like friendzone meme: "keep telling yourself it's better than nothing."

 

right direction? 10 years, same products over and over again, same map.

 

Why are you here? If you recommend everyone to stop buying anything other than full blown DCS module then you will never see that full blown DCS module... and FYI, Frostie has said it well, AFM is one of the harder parts when doing full blown DCS module so ED working on this for 2 very popular fighters is no small thing and is only a step forward towards that full blown DCS fighter... actually 2 full blown DCS fighters and this is beside other modules other developers are working on already :music_whistling:

[jctrnacty]

 

Guys learn to enjoy what we have today and look forward to the fact we have an organisation (I'm not aware of any others doing what ED are doing) that have the passion and the skill to work on keeping our hobby alive. There will always be the "next module/aircraft" and I'm not saying for one minute not to get excited or feel disappointment - but just keep it in perspective.

 

TRue. I couldnt write it better. Put it in the stone

Just my 2 cents. ED do this all for us, sim fans. They do listen, as you can see they added 6dof pits into FC3 which wasnt planed. They are working on new terrain engine, they are rewriting particle effects and explosions because they do listen to all complaints on the forums. And yes, they do it all for us !!!!!

The problem is you cant get all at once and fixed in 1 day. Anyone with average IQ realizes this. And all those comment about being dissapointed and so on are not worth the mentioning.

Simply put, they want to make this sim the best possible with the best experience for all virtual pilots here who visit these forums and play this sim. So again, and i am repeating myself, FOR US!!!!

Edited May 8, 2013 by jctrnacty

[upupandaway]

actually 2 full blown DCS fighters and this is beside other modules other developers are working on already :music_whistling:

 

Hey, don´t forget the beautiful Hornet. 3! :D

All these serious complaints come less than 2 weeks after the release of the DCS: UH-1H...

[Yskonyn]

Hey, don´t forget the beautiful Hornet. 3! :D

All these serious complaints come less than 2 weeks after the release of the DCS: UH-1H...

 

The Huey is not an ED project. It's Belsimtek.

[upupandaway]

The Huey is not an ED project. It's Belsimtek.

 

But it´s a new DCS-level product. We just got a new product from that line and now people are going crazy because they are supposedly being deprioritized in favor of more casual content and "money grabbing". People also complain of the lack thereof - in the past and in the future. ED also has to take care of other issues concerning their engine/platform as a whole, not just modules - and they will be doing so with priority for quite some time. With the UH-1 and the Mig-21 there is an immediate supply of DCS-level aircraft, for example.

[Kuky]

Here's one more thing most people do not realize (including myself :D)... if you don't get "your" popular DCS aircraft and instead there are few other DCS aircraft released this is not a bad thing as many people (including myself) like the idea of lot of (and different) aircraft within a simulator and they don't need to fly it... once the aircraft they like comes along, the inclusion of many others becomes very welcome... they are different types of targets, support aircraft, transport, escort... it is basically a large stable of different aircraft and this is what we all want, isn't it? I mean, wouldn't it be boring if there was only DCS F/A-18 and no other DCS fighter for opposition? Everything would be AI and we all know AI is not so "I-ent" :D

[Lucas_From_Hell]

For the people who complain about ED "changing focus to simplers stuff", or wasting time, or resources, or developing something you don't want, just a friendly reminder:

 

THE AFM IS ONE OF THE MAJOR STEPS OF MODELLING A DCS MODULE. THEY DID NOT GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO DO IT, THEY HAD IT READY AND DECIDED TO SELL IT SO THAT EVEN THEIR MOST BASIC STANDARD OF SIMULATION IS MORE REALISTIC.

 

This is a step TOWARDS hi-fidelity simulation, we'll get rid of 2D cockpits and SFM. While avionics are still in the oven, at least.

 

Think of it as a waypoint really. You need to go through 1, 2, 3 and 4 to get to 5. Releasing a product along the way does not (I repeat, does not) mean you're not going to 5, it just means you have completed all secondary objectives in the previous waypoints. This will also save them time later because it means the testers' team, the community itself and the developers can fine-tune the flight model and 3D cockpits, and do any bug-solving earlier on so that when all systems are brought up to DCS standards, those concerns are out of the way.

 

Once again, this is a step UP. Now even casual gamers will have to deal with a more complex (and much more punishing) flight model. It'll be much easier to stall, spin, roll too much, wobble all over the place, damage the A/C if you over-G. Missile evading and knife-fighting will change drastically because now whoever's at the stick will have to not only think of how to plant a warhead on someone else's tail and not get one stuck up theirs, but also how to keep the thing flying.

 

This is already big news, it's the first time ever we'll see a fighter with AFM - we don't really know how it'll behave at all, and how handling will change. We've seen how attack aircraft and helicopters fly, but very maneuverable supersonic fighters? It's new.

 

The sooner we have the option of buying these modules for less without the FC3 pack, for fighter pilots, the better. It's frustrating to have bought it already, that's more than obvious, but at least they're solving the issue.

[Dejjvid]

The Huey is awesome, and i admire all 3rd party devs.

What most people have been waiting for is a DCS:Fast mover.

Not an FC3 fast mover, we already have that..

[Kuky]

DCS Fighter(s) will come... guaranteed :D

 

PS: man this thread just keeps going.............................................

[MadTommy]

Not likely to happen... what I understand is that ED will create (is in process of creating) AFM for Su-27, F-15C and A-10A and FC3 aircraft will get this in future updates (I assume this will be for free for anyone that owns FC3 already)... and now (the important part)... ED will also release separate module for DCS to include F-15C and Su-27 (either as double pack or single a/c) for people who do not want or have FC3 (as it would cost more and requires Original LockON).

 

It simply does not make sense to leave Su-27 and F-15C in FC3 with all new 3D models and pits without AFM, and to have separate module for DCS of same aircraft with exact same 3D model and pit... with AFM.

 

I think ED is doing the right/good thing for themselves and customers... simply because hi-fidelity fighter module will take long time to finish, so adding AFM, along with new 3D model and pits and AFM for missiles... and you please vast majority of people.

 

If that is the case that would be great.

 

I was certainly left with the impression from the news update that the AFM would be exclusive to these new modules. It doesn't make much sense otherwise....Is ED expecting a decent number of sales if they give the AFM to FC3 as an update?

 

I won't be holding my breath... wishing but expecting to be disappointed.

[zaelu]

I think many people here would have loved instead to have just announces that some high ultra fidelity module is still being worked on and also EDGE is WIP and a charity box where they could toss a penny for EDs employees had been placed at the entrance.

 

OMG they announced that they will put "merely" AFM in F15C and Su27... is the end of the world...

 

Have glass of water from time to time... the taste might surprise you.

Edited May 8, 2013 by zaelu

[Yellonet]

And you would be wrong. What sells more among people who like to fly attack/tank busting? FC3's A-10A or DCS: A-10C?

 

(Hint: FC is the correct answer).

Is there really statistics for that?

Do you really know if someone buys FC3 for the A-10 or for for the MiG-29?

[Yskonyn]

Do those of you who keep pressing 'relax its not the end of the world' actually read any of the posts on the last 5 to 6 pages?

 

I think the general consensus already is that its not the end of the world and almost everyone is appreciative of the work ED is doing.

 

The AFM is regarded as a darn fine piece of coding too. And yes, it is a step towards study sim fidelity and yes the Eagle and Flanker might be upgraded to study sim level later on (however that is speculation at this point if they ever will).

 

ED is still loved by all.

 

But by God, are you all so thick that you can't see where poeple might be genuinly dissapointed without having a sense of entitlement at the same time?

 

It's the bunny chasing the carrot. And the bunny finds out the carrot isn't that fresh orange thing it anticipated it would be. That's all.

 

And the wording and buildup by ED themselves is to blame. Video's, interviews, a newsletter.

People get expectations from those. And people can be dissapointed if things turn out differently than they expected. Plain and simple.

 

But we still value ED. We still love seeing work being done, progress being made, whatever module it may be. And yes we understand it is all a foundation for greater things.

 

Don't try to be the Holy Avenger of the forums. Jeez. ;)

[upupandaway]

Do those of you who keep pressing 'relax its not the end of the world' actually read any of the posts on the last 5 to 6 pages?

 

I think the general consensus already is that its not the end of the world and almost everyone is appreciative of the work ED is doing.

 

The AFM is regarded as a darn fine piece of coding too. And yes, it is a step towards study sim fidelity and yes the Eagle and Flanker might be upgraded to study sim level later on (however that is speculation at this point if they ever will).

 

ED is still loved by all.

 

But by God, are you all so thick that you can't see where poeple might be genuinly dissapointed without having a sense of entitlement at the same time?

 

It's the bunny chasing the carrot. And the bunny finds out the carrot isn't that fresh orange thing it anticipated it would be. That's all.

 

And the wording and buildup by ED themselves is to blame. Video's, interviews, a newsletter.

People get expectations from those. And people can be dissapointed if things turn out differently than they expected. Plain and simple.

 

But we still value ED. We still love seeing work being done, progress being made, whatever module it may be. And yes we understand it is all a foundation for greater things.

 

Don't try to be the Holy Avenger of the forums. Jeez. ;)

 

By now I perceive the repeated disapointment and complaints at these "turning points" to be a little "overzealous" and maybe the actual "crusade" that some people embark on. What complaint ever comes without a sense of entitlement...? :)

Edited May 8, 2013 by upupandaway

[Yellonet]

The ultimate surrender move,.... instead of a small back of a target you present me with a perfect Top Down Shot...... by all means, please do that in front of me...

I'm sure someone can use the cobra in combat in a useful manner.

[Yskonyn]

You call it a complaint. Perhaps that doesn't come without a sense of entitlement indeed.

But I never complained or called it as such.

 

Being dissapointed is something different. :)

 

BTW, I thought I was going nuts a bit earlier about the debate where Wags had never used the DCS label in conjunction with the F-15 and SU-27 in his update post.

Well he did, but the post has been edited. I thought I was going nuts by refering to it earlier and obviously I couldn't find it anymore, but I have got it confirmed on another forum. :D

Bad choice of wording, eh. ;)

 

NOW the update post is nothing to get fed up over. :) A module for DCS. Like FC3 is.

[upupandaway]

You call it a complaint. Perhaps that doesn't come without a sense of entitlement indeed.

But I never complained or called it as such.

 

Being dissapointed is something different. :)

 

BTW, I thought I was going nuts a bit earlier about the debate where Wags had never used the DCS label in conjunction with the F-15 and SU-27 in his update post.

Well he did, but the post has been edited. I thought I was going nuts by refering to it earlier and obviously I couldn't find it anymore, but I have got it confirmed on another forum. :D

Bad choice of wording, eh. ;)

 

Yeah, look at my comment concerning the proof reading...

Alright, alright. I read the last 10 pages or so and replied with an eye to the general tone. That´s where the notion of a complaint came from. I just feel the need to iterate the context of the development in the last years and the relation between their prevoius statements and the present reality and that´s also why I don´t feel noticeably disappointed.

Edited May 8, 2013 by upupandaway

[ishtmail]

This post by Kuky gives me hope that ED is doing the right thing:

 

Not likely to happen... what I understand is that ED will create (is in process of creating) AFM for Su-27, F-15C and A-10A and FC3 aircraft will get this in future updates (I assume this will be for free for anyone that owns FC3 already)...

/.../

It simply does not make sense to leave Su-27 and F-15C in FC3 with all new 3D models and pits without AFM, and to have separate module for DCS of same aircraft with exact same 3D model and pit... with AFM.

 

Thanks for this one, Kuky. I know you're just speculating and don't have this info 100% confirmed, but it's a bright ray of light in this depressing thread :)

[Yskonyn]

No I never saw it as criticism towards myself. I was just the one actively posting replies.

I have a feeling most of us sort of agree in between the lines anyway, but certain points got snowed under I felt and needed reiterating as well.

All good though. We are all having the same interest at the end of the day. But a good debate is healthy for the mind, don't you think? ;)

Have a good one! :thumbup:

[upupandaway]

Hehe