NEW PATCH, CBU'S

[awdrgyjo]

I wonder if anyone can indulge me, I have downloaded the new patch, but as yet, I have not found the time to fly, has the issue regarding the lack lustre performance of the CBU-87, and CBU-103 been addressed yet, also anything else major, regarding pacifically the A-10? a reply would be much appreciated, and, thanks in advance to the kind sender.

[TZeer]

Nope

 

 

Edited May 10, 2013 by TZeer

[MagnumHB]

Wags has said that new effects for the CBU-87/103 are currently being worked on but weren't completed in time for 1.2.4. Hopefully we'll see them in 1.2.5.

[maturin]

I don't know for the life of me why they don't just make the FX for cluster weapons client side in a hot fix. Sure, it would stink not to be able to see other people's bomblets going off, but at least it would keep people from crashing for stupid reasons why they go and tinker with their derp of a 90s engine.

[TZeer]

Cause it's not related to the graphics during explosion.

 

When you drop a CBU 87, it breaks up in hundreds of small 3d models. 3d models are built up by objects. When a CBU 87 breaks up, there are suddenly 2000+ more objects in the world that has to be calculated.

 

1x A-10C is roughly 100 objects. So you can compare it to 20 A-10C appearing in your view instantly.

 

And it doesn't matter what GPU you are running, as the number of objects are handled by the CPU.

[maturin]

And those calculations should be absolutely, 100% client side, with hit resolution performed on the bomber's machine. To it otherwise is sheer insanity.

 

It shouldn't matter to anyone else's computer where every last little bomblet is. They'll never see them anyways, except in the replays, and there's no reason why the actual positions can't approximated with a rain of sprite. The dud rate is high enough to cover any discrepancies.

 

And really, if this was the real virtuality engine, there would be no problem having 20 A10s appear simultaneously. And you know how much crap THAT engine gets from fans.

[159th_Viper]

I might have misunderstood, but I am fairly certain that the OP's question is directed at the 87/103's performance as regards to success against ground units and not the performance hit the 87/103's have on framerates.

[SkateZilla]

i tend to show the bad guys some GAU love before i use anything else...

[Yellonet]

Cause it's not related to the graphics during explosion.

 

When you drop a CBU 87, it breaks up in hundreds of small 3d models. 3d models are built up by objects. When a CBU 87 breaks up, there are suddenly 2000+ more objects in the world that has to be calculated.

 

1x A-10C is roughly 100 objects. So you can compare it to 20 A-10C appearing in your view instantly.

 

And it doesn't matter what GPU you are running, as the number of objects are handled by the CPU.

Actually it is related to graphics, the slowdown only occurs when the the bomblets explode, not when they separate from the canister.

If you drop a CBU-87 over water there is no slow down.

[SkateZilla]

it's an Emitter issue, just like smoke problems. has nothign to do with 3D objects.

 

20 A-10Cs do no have the same Polygon count as 20 bomblets, the A-10Cs win that by a 1500:1 ratio. it's not the number of objects either, Cuz I only ever got a FPS hit during the actual Explosion Effects, or smoke.

 

those are both emitters,

 

 

Not saying that Object count dont have an effect on other areas (ie flying over or looking at certain parts of the terrain), but for CBU's the issue is Particle Emitters

Edited May 10, 2013 by SkateZilla

[Rusty_M]

Also, if it were to do with just the calculation of the bomblets, it would have been a problem for even longer. IIRC, this started with 1.2.2

[TZeer]

Actually it is related to graphics, the slowdown only occurs when the the bomblets explode, not when they separate from the canister.

If you drop a CBU-87 over water there is no slow down.

 

it's an Emitter issue, just like smoke problems. has nothign to do with 3D objects.

 

20 A-10Cs do no have the same Polygon count as 20 bomblets, the A-10Cs win that by a 1500:1 ratio. it's not the number of objects either, Cuz I only ever got a FPS hit during the actual Explosion Effects, or smoke.

 

those are both emitters,

 

 

Not saying that Object count dont have an effect on other areas (ie flying over or looking at certain parts of the terrain), but for CBU's the issue is Particle Emitters

 

I only did this test one single time before. But did a new one to test the water etc.

 

Looks like we are right and wrong at the same time

 

- It does not happen over water

 

- It does happen when there are explosions

 

- The object count skyrockets to over 7000!! during the explosions....

 

This over water, somewhere between 300 and 400 objects.

 

 

This is over land and with explosions. Everything is similar until the explosions starts.

As soon as the first impact comes, the object count skyrockets and chokes your CPU.

 

[maturin]

Maybe the game is laying down a grid of objects (in greater quantities than the drawn explosions) to see what they collide with and what vehicles are hit.

 

When there should really just a be a homogenous damage field with a chance to escape hits...

[Yellonet]

When there should really just a be a homogenous damage field with a chance to escape hits...

That might be too simplistic as it would not account for cover.

[maturin]

That might be too simplistic as it would not account for cover.

Like what?

Isn't the game world too simplistic to offer any serious cover?

 

At least to vehicles. Some infantry might be able to hide in FOBs, but those poor suckers get targeted by Mavericks and can't even lie down to hide, so I'm not going to lose sleep over their hit detection.

[Kaktus29]

i think much can be done to make the CPU load easier.. programming stuff to make it run smooth is an art.. a terrible programmers can complicate to such a degree the whole thing grinds to a halt.. so its hard and easy at the same time.. is it really necessary to have each bomblet simulated? and have its own SFM? ..or god knows what else?..

 

a simple cover area calculation for the weapon and altitude you release it should be enough. .then have the percentage of targets that can be destroyed and you get a simplified math equation with no drop in Frame rates. and also not much different outcome on the ground with today's more complicated calculations..

[Rusty_M]

But, as demonstrated, the fall of the objects isn't the problem. The problem is something to do with the explosion of each, and apparently, that these explosions are creating objects. Could this be ED's attempt at beginning to model frag patterns, or a mistake within the effect? Who knows? They have stated that they're working on it and I do have faith.

[SkateZilla]

"Objects" isnt restricted to 3d Meshes/Models/EDMs.

 

A Sprite (from a Particle Emitter) Could be considered an Object.

 

A Shadow Stencil of the 3d EDM or Particle from the Emitter could be considered and Object.

 

The explosion on land vs the explosion on water has a drastic change in "Presense"

(More Particle Emitters( Multiple types of Fire, Smoke, and Shockwaves emitters, and More Particles for Each Emitter, more Light sources, more shadows")

 

vs the standard "splashes" on water

[Pivot2163]

Nope

 

 

 

Now that's some funny ****, I don't care who you are...:megalol:

[awdrgyjo]

I might have misunderstood, but I am fairly certain that the OP's question is directed at the 87/103's performance as regards to success against ground units and not the performance hit the 87/103's have on framerates.

 

Viper is indeed correct, I was referring to the damage that the CBUs inflict, rather than the graphics and frame rate performance, at the moment, the results of a 87/103 attack are so poor, they have, for the time being, become redundant, which is rather a shame, because I personally feel they are the most versatile bit of kit, that the A-10 carries.

[whitehot]

it's an Emitter issue, just like smoke problems. has nothign to do with 3D objects.

 

20 A-10Cs do no have the same Polygon count as 20 bomblets, the A-10Cs win that by a 1500:1 ratio. it's not the number of objects either, Cuz I only ever got a FPS hit during the actual Explosion Effects, or smoke.

 

those are both emitters,

 

 

Not saying that Object count dont have an effect on other areas (ie flying over or looking at certain parts of the terrain), but for CBU's the issue is Particle Emitters

 

 

 

Exactly. At least imho

[Yellonet]

Viper is indeed correct, I was referring to the damage that the CBUs inflict, rather than the graphics and frame rate performance, at the moment, the results of a 87/103 attack are so poor, they have, for the time being, become redundant, which is rather a shame, because I personally feel they are the most versatile bit of kit, that the A-10 carries.

The real CBU-87/103 relies a lot of fragmentation to destroy and damage targets, but fragmentation and blastwaves seems to be modelled quite poorly in DCS at the moment (still).