DCS World TARGET profile for TM Cougar and Warthog + MFDs

Home Fries · January 12, 2018

Hi HomeFries,

I've noticed that when I use the tight turn NWS(hold S3), I can no longer use my Ant Elev knob on my Cougar to turn my wheels again. They are stuck in which ever direction I used the tight turn NWS command. I've tested this in the Harrier and F-15C. Just giving you a heads-up just in case you was not aware of it. Keep up the great work. :thumbup:

With ANT_ELEV as rudder, I originally allowed the use of the default ANT functionality (usually FOV Zoom) with S3 held. I put this in before any modules used a momentary NWS button, and then never reviewed it.

I have since disabled this "feature" for aircraft that use a momentary NWS (like the AV-8B and F-15). Since this is a global fix that affects all modules, I can't release it as a hotfix. You'll see it in 2.05, which I plan to release after 2.5 goes live. In the meantime, always use NWS mode for the AV-8B and stay away from tight turns in the F-15. :D

pimp · January 13, 2018

With ANT_ELEV as rudder, I originally allowed the use of the default ANT functionality (usually FOV Zoom) with S3 held. I put this in before any modules used a momentary NWS button, and then never reviewed it.

I have since disabled this "feature" for aircraft that use a momentary NWS (like the AV-8B and F-15). Since this is a global fix that affects all modules, I can't release it as a hotfix. You'll see it in 2.05, which I plan to release after 2.5 goes live. In the meantime, always use NWS mode for the AV-8B and stay away from tight turns in the F-15. :D

No problem at all. Thanks for the info. :thumbup:

sobe · January 13, 2018

Home Fries

First let me say that I love your profiles. However, I am getting a little too old to fully remember all of the complex command structure of your profiles. It is just getting too much for me (VN veteran). I will still keep your profiles up to date, but I am not sure how much I may use them in the future.

I am currently flying the F15 and find that buttons with just a regular press and a shifted press are at my current abilities level. Beyond that, it is just too much for me. I supplement some of the missing commands with the TM MFDs of which I now have 4 of them (anticipating the F18).

I know this is just a hobby for you, but if you ever get the desire to simplify your profiles as a separate series of profiles, I would be pleased to test them for you.

Home Fries · January 13, 2018

Home Fries
First let me say that I love your profiles. However, I am getting a little too old to fully remember all of the complex command structure of your profiles. It is just getting too much for me (VN veteran). I will still keep your profiles up to date, but I am not sure how much I may use them in the future.
I am currently flying the F15 and find that buttons with just a regular press and a shifted press are at my current abilities level. Beyond that, it is just too much for me. I supplement some of the missing commands with the TM MFDs of which I now have 4 of them (anticipating the F18).
I know this is just a hobby for you, but if you ever get the desire to simplify your profiles as a separate series of profiles, I would be pleased to test them for you.

Hi sobe,

While my profiles are undoubtedly complex in terms of code, I try to make them so that they are intuitive and convenient. Sometimes when the two goals are mutually exclusive, I try to make the features either optionally activated (i.e. enable or disable using CTS) or optional and transparent (i.e. they're there if you want them, but you don't need to use them). Even I don't use all of the features in my profiles; I just put them there as options for power users.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want the profile to be too complex for people. Once you have set up your hardware and perhaps tweaked some timing values, the profile should run just fine without further adjustments in CTS. If it has gotten to the point where the complexity of the profile gets the way of its use, please let me know with specific examples and I can adjust the feature set to be more conventional.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Home Fries

Gioppino · January 13, 2018

Thanks ;-)

sobe · January 13, 2018

Home Fries

I am sure most of your young flyers are very comfortable with your complex profiles. All I want is no more than 2 commands per button. Something like Phoenix's profiles at the top of this forum. With your new system, I am unable to modify your profiles. Don't be concerned about me and just keep doing what you have been doing. For the F18, I will probably look at your profile and then so a simpler one myself either using the target GUI or just using direct controls.

Home Fries · January 14, 2018

All I want is no more than 2 commands per button.

I assume you refer to the FC3 profiles here. Not much I can do about that: no clicking + no context-sensitive functions or buttons means that I have to shoehorn functions as a result. It makes things even worse when functions are added later and have to be further shoehorned (like the handbrake + special afterburner on the Su-33).

EDIT: If you have the Harrier, Mirage 2000, Gazelle, or Viggen I recommend trying those profiles (especially the Harrier or Viggen with the enhanced controller luas installed). I consider these to be my best profiles.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Home Fries

sobe · January 14, 2018

Home Fries

No. Not just FC3 planes. As I said, I have 4 MFDs and it is easy to program one command per button on them so I am not missing much. For non-FC3 planes, I have been using Capt. Z's Helios profiles that have a great number of commands in the cockpit on my second screen.

=36=Witcher · January 14, 2018

Hi there. I think you already know, but let me tell you this anyway: AWESOME work.

Now, a little question. I loaded the F-5e profile in DCS and started the script; everything looks good (at least, so it seems) apart from two annoyances:

1- When i press S3 to use it as shift the Communication menu pops up. It seems that releasing S3 fires BTN20, which is indeed assigned to Communication menu in DCS. Is this correct?

EDIT: I even removed all the bindings in the DCS profile to Communication menu, but it keeps popping up.

2- Why the slew control does not emulate the radar gate? Is it on purpose?

Thank you!

Edited January 14, 2018 by Lorthirk

=36=Witcher · January 15, 2018

Following up to the above post, it seems the issue is not strictly related to the automatic firing of BTN20 since, according to analyzer software, BTN20 results as pressed only when releasing S3, while the Communication menu appears when pressing S3.

Any tip?

Home Fries · January 15, 2018

Sorry Lorthirk. I didn’t have a chance to post previously. This is normal for the F-5, which also uses S3 as a PTT during startup. I have logic in there to cancel out the comms menu (by pressing it again). When I get to my PC I’ll tell you how it works and how to disable it.

=36=Witcher · January 15, 2018

Great! Thank you!

Home Fries · January 16, 2018

Lorthirk,

The profile is set to press the commswitch on release of S3 to cancel the comms menu. It does this when the logical gear state is down (i.e. the profile thinks the gear is down) and the battery is off (again, the profile thinks the battery is off). If you start the battery using the MFDs, that will inhibit the commswitch on release of S3.

Alternatively, you can go to the F-5 on the CTS Values page, then set "Clear CommMenu after holding S3" to 0. This will disable the feature.

EDIT: This feature will be disabled by default in the next release; you can always set it to 1 if you decide you like it.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Home Fries

=36=Witcher · January 16, 2018

Ok... I remember the CommMenu popping out also when taxying, but probably I was already fiddling here and there with the scheme, so I guess I may be the one to blame there. Anyway this evening I'll try to set the flag in CTS and report back. So glad is an easy fix :)

Speaking of the radar gate moved with the slew control, instead: I investigated it a bit and noticed that the slew control is mapped as two axis, while DCS expects button. Is this the reason the slew control can't be used for the radar gate?

cobragva · January 16, 2018

Sorry, everybody. Somehow my subscription to this thread dropped, and I've been busy at work and haven't been actively checking the forum.

Sometimes this happens when the FAST middleware isn't playing well. You can stop the profile, then stop and start (or restart) the Thrustmaster FAST service using the Services menu in the Control Panel. I have tried to minimize the stress to FAST, but lets just say this component is the weakest link in the Thrustmaster line.

Regarding S3, I made it so it works as NWS by default while the logical gear state is down (LLED2 is illuminated), but with gear up it only works to undesignate if tapped quickly. To use the shifted function (like uncaging a maverick), press and hold S3 and it will not undesignate the target. Same with fast slew: make sure you hold S3. If you fast slew without S3 and slow slew with S3, press S3+S1 short to resync the action/noaction toggle. If you can perform your shifted commands and still release S3 in time to execute the NWS, then you may want to reduce your TEMPO - S3/Function Modifier value in the Timing Values - TEMPO menu. Default is 300ms, but I'm quick enough that I had to reduce my value to 250ms.

For master arm, if you are not using the custom master lua, it is a toggle function. There's no way for the controller to know the in-game state, so to resync you need to hold S3 and flip the switch (this works for all other switches on the warthog throttle). This is a standard convention of mine when dealing with toggle switches (and often with discrete states as well).

For the red on the keyboard, the first thing you want to check is your modifiers. Make sure you have JOY_BTN30, 31, and 32 set as modifiers. If you do and you still have red, try re-loading the diff.lua for each controller. I don't have any issues on my end, and I have no problem at all employing the Maverick.

I assume you have TM/Gameport Rudder Pedals = 2 in your configuration. I haven't changed the code since the F-5/F-15, so I will revisit to see if new features broke old code. Thank you for the heads-up.

Hi Homefries,

Sorry, i have been pretty busy at work since the beginning of the year.

I have reinstalled everything and now, it works but still have issues. Please find hereunder my reply to your comments

S3: still no joy. as soon as I press S3, it undesignates (although I hold the button). Have you try to use the maverick with the Harrier ? When we want to uncage the maverick, does anyone can hold S3 and press TDC ?

TDC ACTION: unfortunately, it isn't well placed as when we press on it, there is a very high probability that we move the cursor at the same time.

thanks for your great support

Edited January 16, 2018 by cobragva

=36=Witcher · January 16, 2018

Lorthirk,

The profile is set to press the commswitch on release of S3 to cancel the comms menu. It does this when the logical gear state is down (i.e. the profile thinks the gear is down) and the battery is off (again, the profile thinks the battery is off). If you start the battery using the MFDs, that will inhibit the commswitch on release of S3.

Alternatively, you can go to the F-5 on the CTS Values page, then set "Clear CommMenu after holding S3" to 0. This will disable the feature.

EDIT: This feature will be disabled by default in the next release; you can always set it to 1 if you decide you like it.

So... I tried what you said, and apparently nothing changed: Comms Menu still pops up when pressing S3. So, I rolled back to the previous value (1) and now the Comms Menu pops up but then it's cleared on release, and this is correct since S20 is correctly firing. I guess that this is the intended behavior, so that's ok.

Now, another question: by reading the scheme it looks like H1 should control the POV while holding S3 should control trim; at least, this is what I understand from "Trim Shifted". Instead, I control the Trim without S3, and the Padlock with S3, which is consistent with the /I labels. I'm a bit puzzled here... All I can say is that using the TARGET Device Analyzer, BTN30 is actually pressed every time I use H1 without the S3, while BTN32 is also shown as pressed if using S3.

I'd be really glad if you (or anyone) could shed some light here. Sorry if my question should be a really basic one, but didn't find anything in the docs.

Home Fries · January 17, 2018

Hi Homefries,
S3: still no joy. as soon as I press S3, it undesignates (although I hold the button). Have you try to use the maverick with the Harrier ? When we want to uncage the maverick, does anyone can hold S3 and press TDC ?

TDC ACTION: unfortunately, it isn't well placed as when we press on it, there is a very high probability that we move the cursor at the same time.

Make sure the logical Gear State is up (i.e. you shouldn't see LED2 illuminated on your LMFD. If logical gear state is down, S3 will do both functions since it is a hold command for the NWS. The logical gear state must be up for the TEMPO to work.

For TDC Action, I agree. Right now, since the TDC is not tied to analog axes, the only thing I could do was add a digital dead zone to the center area. You will see this in 2.05.

So... I tried what you said, and apparently nothing changed: Comms Menu still pops up when pressing S3. So, I rolled back to the previous value (1) and now the Comms Menu pops up but then it's cleared on release, and this is correct since S20 is correctly firing. I guess that this is the intended behavior, so that's ok.

This is correct. The routine was put in to clear the comms menu after DCS displays it.

Now, another question: by reading the scheme it looks like H1 should control the POV while holding S3 should control trim; at least, this is what I understand from "Trim Shifted". Instead, I control the Trim without S3, and the Padlock with S3, which is consistent with the /I labels. I'm a bit puzzled here... All I can say is that using the TARGET Device Analyzer, BTN30 is actually pressed every time I use H1 without the S3, while BTN32 is also shown as pressed if using S3.

It all depends on your TrackIR setting. On the CTS Values page, select the Hardware Configuration category and assign 0 to use H1 for POV, 1 to use TrackIR, or 2 for VR. If you use H1 for POV, this is the default function, with S3+H1 Long for trim and S3+H1 short for Padlock. Otherwise, head tracking takes care of POV and H1 is trim with S3+H1 padlock (or rudder trim/reset trim, etc per the HOTAS graphic).

I'll put an explanation for POV users in the manual.

Speaking of the radar gate moved with the slew control, instead: I investigated it a bit and noticed that the slew control is mapped as two axis, while DCS expects button. Is this the reason the slew control can't be used for the radar gate?

So the F-5 still uses a digital TDC? I thought it was changed to analog by now. I don't often fly the F-5, so if it needs to go back to a digital TDC map that's an easy fix. I'll investigate further.

=36=Witcher · January 17, 2018

So the F-5 still uses a digital TDC? I thought it was changed to analog by now. I don't often fly the F-5, so if it needs to go back to a digital TDC map that's an easy fix. I'll investigate further.

Yes, at least from what I saw from the controls. I'm still a newbie in DCS so perhaps I missed something, but didn't seem to find anything related to the radar in the Axis page.

Home Fries · January 19, 2018

Yes, at least from what I saw from the controls. I'm still a newbie in DCS so perhaps I missed something, but didn't seem to find anything related to the radar in the Axis page.

Lorthirk,

Are you using the Cougar or Warthog?

I have confirmed that the TDC is analog, but I also confirmed that I never updated the Cougar diff.lua either. :doh:

Edit: Use the Auto-Updater to get 2.04 Hotfix 2, which fixes the F-5 and AV-8B for Cougar users.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Home Fries

=36=Witcher · January 19, 2018

I have a Warthog and of course loading the wh profile. Which axis do I need to assign?

Home Fries · January 20, 2018

I have a Warthog and of course loading the wh profile. Which axis do I need to assign?

You should be good to go with the Warthog. Just realize that you don't see the gate until you're in 20nm scale.

=36=Witcher · January 20, 2018

Well... I double checked, but importing the WH profile doesn't assign the TDC Azimuth and Range axis, while it assigns the four cursors keys in the keyboard. I do have to assign them manually, and then the TDC is correctly assigned to the analog slew control.

EDIT: sorry for keeping two different issues in one place, but I also made a little discovery about the radio comm issue. It seems that even with "Clear CommMenu after holding S3" is set to 1 in CTS, BTN20 actually fires if, and only if, the APU Start switch is set to off, according to the device analyzer. Here's what happens in game instead:

Standing on the ground, APU ON: nothing happens

Standing on the ground, APU OFF: CommMenu toggles when pressing, nothing on release

Flying, gear down, APU ON: CommMenu toggles when pressing, nothing on release

Flying, gear down, APU OFF: CommMenu toggles when pressing, and toggles again on release

Flying, gear up, APU ON: nothing happens

Flying, gear up, APU OFF: nothing happens

Edited January 20, 2018 by Lorthirk
Added info on CommMenu switch

Home Fries · January 20, 2018

Well... I double checked, but importing the WH profile doesn't assign the TDC Azimuth and Range axis, while it assigns the four cursors keys in the keyboard. I do have to assign them manually, and then the TDC is correctly assigned to the analog slew control.

Wow, I completely botched that one. Go ahead and do another update; you should have a WH diff.lua for 2.04.

EDIT: sorry for keeping two different issues in one place, but I also made a little discovery about the radio comm issue. It seems that even with "Clear CommMenu after holding S3" is set to 1 in CTS, BTN20 actually fires if, and only if, the APU Start switch is set to off, according to the device analyzer. Here's what happens in game instead:

Standing on the ground, APU ON: nothing happens
Standing on the ground, APU OFF: CommMenu toggles when pressing, nothing on release
Flying, gear down, APU ON: CommMenu toggles when pressing, nothing on release
Flying, gear down, APU OFF: CommMenu toggles when pressing, and toggles again on release
Flying, gear up, APU ON: nothing happens
Flying, gear up, APU OFF: nothing happens

No apologies for bringing bugs to my attention. I would much rather know about them so I can fix them.

In this case, the issue is overcome by events. It appears that BST has removed the feature that would produce the comms menu when pressing the NWS button, so there is no use for this feature in TARGET. It is disabled by default in the next build, but I recommend disabling it now as well.

=36=Witcher · January 20, 2018

Wow, I completely botched that one. Go ahead and do another update; you should have a WH diff.lua for 2.04.

Ok, I can confirm. We can call this fixed :)

In this case, the issue is overcome by events. It appears that BST has removed the feature that would produce the comms menu when pressing the NWS button, so there is no use for this feature in TARGET. It is disabled by default in the next build, but I recommend disabling it now as well.

Uhm... I don't know about this. At least in 1.5 S3 still toggles CommsMenu, but of course having set Clear CommMenu to 0 it now stays open.

Home Fries · January 20, 2018

Uhm... I don't know about this. At least in 1.5 S3 still toggles CommsMenu, but of course having set Clear CommMenu to 0 it now stays open.

Interesting. Just got a big nothing-burger doing the cold start instant action in NTTR.

I had disabled the routine; perhaps I should leave it in but default it to disabled instead.

DCS World TARGET profile for TM Cougar and Warthog + MFDs