Diegeist Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 So I did some searching on the forums here and did not really find what I was looking for (probably my fault). I am trying to find out if ECM is actually working yet in 1.26. I know in the past it has been a running joke that all it does is allow other radar to find you faster, and I havent seen anything recently on the subject. Specifically I am wondering if the ECM pod for the A-10C is still a paperweight. If it is useless I would rather not haul it around on missions. I have done some basic testing with the SA-10 sites and it doesn't seem matter if I am using ECM or not. They always lock me up around the same range. Anyone else have the same results? Cheers, Die
Flagrum Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 So I did some searching on the forums here and did not really find what I was looking for (probably my fault). I am trying to find out if ECM is actually working yet in 1.26. I know in the past it has been a running joke that all it does is allow other radar to find you faster, and I havent seen anything recently on the subject. Specifically I am wondering if the ECM pod for the A-10C is still a paperweight. If it is useless I would rather not haul it around on missions. I have done some basic testing with the SA-10 sites and it doesn't seem matter if I am using ECM or not. They always lock me up around the same range. Anyone else have the same results? Cheers, Die ECM is not functional, it seems: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1853622&postcount=22
ENO Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) I'm no authority on the subject but based on The discussions I've seen I don't even bring a pod with me anymore. I bring a seven shot of smoke instead. Edited November 15, 2013 by ENO "ENO" Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret. "Sweetest's" Military Aviation Art
ralfidude Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 Still doesn't help, Lads, I'd hate to say it but I think ED will not look into this for a while or at all. If they do, great! But I'm not holding my breath... So do as Eno says, I remove my jammer pod, and replace it with 2 extra Aim-9s, and by God do you need those in the threat environment we are working under... [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
Mike Busutil Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 WHAT!?!?!?! This changes everything!!!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Checkout my user files here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/user-is-Mike Busutil/apply/
ralfidude Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 He is specifically asking for A-10C I think, and I'm pretty sure he asking against ground targets as well. But yes, if you want to fly the A-10 like a fighter and light yourself up like a Christmas tree on radar with ECM, you can totally do that as it is modeled for AA purposes like all FC3 aircraft. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
OutOnTheOP Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 He is specifically asking for A-10C I think, and I'm pretty sure he asking against ground targets as well. But yes, if you want to fly the A-10 like a fighter and light yourself up like a Christmas tree on radar with ECM, you can totally do that as it is modeled for AA purposes like all FC3 aircraft. If you fly in SEMI mode, doesn't it only transmit when you hit the commit/ transmit button on the HOTAS? It should only light you up for a few seconds at a time, and the only time you should be hitting the button is when there's an emitter already active against you.
ralfidude Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 it turns on when you press cms down, yes. If there is a target actively tracking you then once the jammer is turned on manually by you, it will remain on and jamming until either you turn it off, or the thing stops tracking you. If you try to activate the jammer for a target not actively locking you, then the jammer will run for only like 5 seconds and then turn off. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
karambiatos Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 cant you set the ECM to turn on only when youve been locked or launched on, that should be of some use against players.... maybe. A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record. =&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things
ENO Posted November 16, 2013 Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) I think the question has been answered- you can turn it on whenever you like but it won't do anything. As was told to me by one of the testers: the effects are largely placebo. Then again so is proactive flaring on attack runs but I do it anyway to develop good habits or the time it does work. Edited November 19, 2013 by ENO "ENO" Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret. "Sweetest's" Military Aviation Art
Diegeist Posted November 18, 2013 Author Posted November 18, 2013 He is specifically asking for A-10C I think, and I'm pretty sure he asking against ground targets as well. But yes, if you want to fly the A-10 like a fighter and light yourself up like a Christmas tree on radar with ECM, you can totally do that as it is modeled for AA purposes like all FC3 aircraft. Ralfi, You just crushed my dreams of being the first virtual A-10C fighter ace :pilotfly:. Well I guess its back to hugging the hills and rolling in the dirt. Thanks for the insight guys. Cheers, Dieg
GGTharos Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 ECM is effective against aircraft beyond ~23nm head-on, depending on the threat radar. Tail-on it is effective to even shorter ranges. It is also effective against SAMs at longer ranges (again beyond some 25nm), but not closer, so it's utility against SHORAD is negated. ECM does work in game. It isn't perfect, it is a fairly simple simulation of ECM (and ECM is anything but simple, programming AI to react properly to it is even harder :) ) and it may or may not be revisited by ED some time in the future. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
MBot Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 Also somehow related to the subject, did anyone ever break a ground radar lock with chaff?
GGTharos Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 You can't break a radar lock with chaff in DCS. You can decoy missiles though. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ralfidude Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Tharos, give me an insight on what ECM does against SAM at 25nm please, and which system, because I observed absolutely no change in SAM behavior with and without ECM for the long range SAMs at the time of testing. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
sobek Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 The only thing ECM does is reduce the maximum distance at which a lock can be achieved. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
ralfidude Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 That is not what is observed vs Patriot missile defense systems and SA-11/10 systems when I tested it out at their max radar ranges. Lock was attained on me regardless of ECM on or off, and we accounted for SAM warm up time. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
cacti4-6 Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 wow. eagle d really messde this system up with 1.26. does it work in 1.25? Branch Sustainability and Integration Officer Militarygamers.com A community for current and former US Service Members. :thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Maverick-X Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 I think the question has been answered- you can turn it on whenever you like but it won't do anything. As was told to me by one of the testers: the effects are largely placebo. Then again so is proactive flaring on attack runs but I do it anyway to develop good habits or the time it does work. a bit off topic, but proactive flaring works as far as I can tell. I've been doing a bombrun against infantry (Bactria) and flared 1 flare each second. Got an Igla launched at me, and stupid as I sometimes am I continued my attackrun as I was short before release. After the drop I realised my stupid move and the fact I was still alive. SHORAD got immediatly distracted.
Crescendo Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 a bit off topic, but proactive flaring works as far as I can tell. I've been doing a bombrun against infantry (Bactria) and flared 1 flare each second. Got an Igla launched at me, and stupid as I sometimes am I continued my attackrun as I was short before release. After the drop I realised my stupid move and the fact I was still alive. SHORAD got immediatly distracted. It depends how you define "preventative". If by preventative you mean delaying or preventing a missile launch by denying a stable seeker lock, there is zero effect. Preemptively pumping out flares will not stop a SAM from locking up your aircraft and firing at its predetermined range. This is a limitation in the current SAM AI logic - they fire at a certain range no matter what, and whatever countermeasures you decide to dispense has nothing to do with it. However, if you run a flare program around the time you think a missile is going to be launched, there is a chance that the missile will track the flares dispensed by this program. However, I would call this a missile defeat, not a missile prevention. In my opinion it's a misnomer to call any flare program "preventative" in the current DCS version. Flares don't prevent anything, but they might save you after the fact. . [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
VanjaB Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 Just out of curiousity how would flares prevent or delay a missle launch in real life?
Dejjvid Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 In certain systems the operator see a reticule in the sight. If the target a/c release flares the reticule can switch from the a/c to the flare. A skilled operator won't launch if that happens, and will re adjust the reticule over the target. With modern systems, like the RBS70 NG using laser, and thus is impossible to jam, you can pump flares all day long and they won't defeat the missile or the operator. i7 8700K | GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB RAM | 500GB M.2 SSD | TIR5 w/ Trackclip Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder [sigpic]http://www.132virtualwing.org[/sigpic]
GGTharos Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 In certain systems the operator see a reticule in the sight. If the target a/c release flares the reticule can switch from the a/c to the flare. A skilled operator won't launch if that happens, and will re adjust the reticule over the target. And just to clarify this a little further, a lot of MANPADS won't actually show you what they've locked onto, so if there are flares in the FoV, you don't know which target the seeker has chosen ... thus launch is delayed. Decoying of the seeker 'on the rail' as described here is not modeled in the game. With modern systems, like the RBS70 NG using laser, and thus is impossible to jam, you can pump flares all day long and they won't defeat the missile or the operator. That isn't entirely true but basically ... :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
3instein Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Trying to get back into DCS A-10 and stumbled upon this thread.Was any of this ECM shizz working when the game was released? I remember when I got this when it came out and it ran sweet as butter for me and rarely had any problems with it at all,but now no so much. :( I know it's a little OT and ED are implementing/trying out stuff all the time but I must say for me anyway the game seems a hell of a lot worse now than at release or a few months later. Now after reading about the ECM not working I bet there are other systems that don't work as well as they did,maybe not. Thanks in advance, Mick. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Keep the faith AMD PHENOM II X 4 955be @3.2 GHZ | ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO mb | Corsair XMS3-8GB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory | Nvidea GTX 580 GDDR5 GPU | CNPS9900 NT cooler | Corsair HX850W psu | Seagate Barracuda 500GB HD 300 MBps - 7200 rpm | WIN 7 64bit | 32" HD LCD TV | 5.1 surround sound | wireless keyboard and mouse | Saitek x45 hotas.
Flagrum Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Trying to get back into DCS A-10 and stumbled upon this thread.Was any of this ECM shizz working when the game was released? No, it was always like this, afaik. I remember when I got this when it came out and it ran sweet as butter for me and rarely had any problems with it at all,but now no so much. :( I know it's a little OT and ED are implementing/trying out stuff all the time but I must say for me anyway the game seems a hell of a lot worse now than at release or a few months later. Now after reading about the ECM not working I bet there are other systems that don't work as well as they did,maybe not. Thanks in advance, Mick. :) So you would prefer that nothing changes? No additional content, no updates, no bug fixes?:huh:
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