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Fighter Ops Argument

sumoscouse

By sumoscouse
in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1 & 2

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sumoscouse

sumoscouse

Posted
Posted

Hello People

 

I feel I might of been out of line on the Fighter Ops forum with regards to the Area 51 membership subscription fee.

 

Subscribing to Area 51 gives those who pay access to information about the dev of the game with the non payer getting tit bits a few weeks down the line.

 

I just thought this was the wrong way to inspire interest in a potentially great game.

 

Does anyone think I was out of order - follow link for post

 

http://www.fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4140

 

 

Comments much appreciated - Pos OR Neg

 

 

Cheers

 

SumoScouse Out :cool:

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Pilotasso

Pilotasso

Posted
Posted

While what you said makes sense about the first contact with FO, you could have been a lilte more subtile in your words. Paying a fee to get dev info first hand is odd in my perspective too but considering that there are people who are most likely not going to see a peny for years to come, that can be felt as a low blow.

 

You could have expressed the same idea but without making it sound as parody like you made. this is my honest view of the matter, only because you asked for it. Normaly I would stay shut up if you didnt.

 

My best wishes for FO project and I hope it achieaves what they are aiming for.

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sumoscouse

sumoscouse

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:cool:

While what you said makes sense about the first contact with FO, you could have been a lilte more subtile in your words. Paying a fee to get dev info first hand is odd in my perspective too but considering that there are people who are most likely not to see a peny for years to come, that can be felt as a low blow.

 

You could have expressed the same idea but without making it sound like a parody like you made. this is my honest view of the matter, only because you asked for it. Normaly I would stay shut up if you didnt.

 

My best wishes for FO project and I hope it achieaves what they are aiming for.

 

 

Thanks for the comments matey :redface: much appreciated. Like you said a little more subtle

 

 

Cheers

 

SumoSocuse Out

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bflagg

bflagg

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Posted

SumoScouse...

Why start this fecal here? FO holds the promise of getting it right where LO and F4 got it wrong or chose not to include.

 

We are all hoping that FO will come into it's own and do things right.

Don't get me wrong... LO is a fun sim to play.. but in it's current rendition it needs help.

IF BS doesn't have a enhancements or fixes for the Jets.. I'm not buying it. Period. I am not a RotorNut.

 

 

LockON does alot of things.. but in some..they are way off and have no concrete plans to fix. (in fact alot of "maybe next patch / release" is heard alot here).

 

With Falcon...forget it. It's a smorgasbord of patches and "I know more than you doooooo" mentalities" .. Even with FA:AF.. it's still not right. (not to mention graphically).

 

If a person is willing to pay 25usd on a membership for a promise of a better flight sim....then more power to ya. If you don't think it's worth it.. don't.

 

I've been a member with FO for approx a year now and I do enjoy the info provided and I must not fall into the "LockOn" trap that I fell into.... (where everyone saying..OMFG.. this is great.. check this out....check that out... advanced FM.. Missles.. Radar..... ..whatever).

 

People of this hobby tend to lean towards the positive wishing side of things instead of the reality of what the sim really is. (this is where I feel most hurt ED).

The hype went on and on before it's initial release and no correction to reality occured by ED/UBI. So the customer purchased something thinking one thing and got another.

 

F4 is the same thing (along with it's very stupid political history)

 

I feel FO, sofar has tried to keep it real and reflects it the same in Area51 and for that $25 is worth it.

On top of that...I get the discount of 25 when it's released. So it's a wash.

 

The only thing that is a bummer is it will be a trainer only available first.

But on the positive side.. they are going to try and take you thru a more realistic training, than any flight sim released to date has done.

That in itself is cool.

Will it be worth the 100 bucks? (Hearsay price)..... I dunno... but I"ve blown more money on PC parts.....

 

and on a side note.. ALL three forums I've mentioned have very knowledgable people posting their stuff on their respective areas and IS a great resource to learn from...

You may not agree with any of them.. but they are there trying to make things better in each flight sim type.

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Thanks,

Brett

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arraamis

arraamis

Posted
Posted

I agree that you could have been a little more subtle in your sentence structure. BUT!

 

You had a very valid point. I think paying for forum membership under any circumstance is stretching it a bit. Especially when that forum focuses on a product that doesn't yet exist. {I've read the forums and they mention that at this point they cannot release actual ingame video's etc... because of the possiblility of infringement on their intellectual product}

 

Sure, pictures of aircraft & sceanery can be produced in a variety of ways {via, 3Dmax, photoshop} etc. It doesn't validate the existance of said product, therfore doesn't justify charging for access to the so-called insider information on development. Unless, that person who pays, thrives on having access to something others don't.

 

{of course this is my opinion, to which I am entitled} Hence, my unwillingness to join area51.

 

If ED, were to offer such an area for inside access to development on upcoming products, I would be inclined to join, mainly because they have a working product published & distributed. And it is a reality in motion.

 

FighterOps, in my opinion is NOT a real product yet and I have yet to see any real evidence of anything to the contrary, it is a concept in motion, {there is a huge difference here} and only time will tell if it becomes a reality.

 

I'm a huge fallout fan and Fallout3 was in development {a concept in motion}, but never came to frution because of issues beyond the developers control. In interplays favor, they had, fallout1, fallout2 & tactics published & on the market. So, access to insider information on fallout3's progress would have been a waste of time & money because it never existed, It was a concept in motion.

 

With all the clever marketing scams present in today's market it is becoming easier & easier to relieve people of their hard earned cash. With a developer not showing any real evidence of the existance of a product, but in the meantime charging you for access to photo's, sounds, 3D models & sceanery, that can be produced without the existance of said product, makes your so-called investment & participation equal to the buying of snakeoil.

 

So, to sumoscouse, you had every right to question its existance, and you have the right to request validation of the existance of said product prior to paying for access.

 

And since they are unwilling or unable to produce any concrete evidence, they in the process haven't validated that it is a rational investment.

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sumoscouse

sumoscouse

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Arraamis - Thank You

 

I know what I was trying to say and couldn't get my point across as excellently as you have.

 

I did not want to get aggressive or abusive with the individuals at FO and as a result I wanted a little help from LO members to see if I was totally in the wrong for what I said.

 

They started to threaten ones-self with negative reputation votes - WHY?

 

I had an opinion and they didn't like it

 

No need at all :(

 

 

Thank you everyone for your time and comments

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Sumoscouse Out :cool:

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DarkStar

DarkStar

Posted
Posted

guys, you pay 25$ because you want to SUPPORT a group with almost no financial support from the start. If you want to support them, please do, if not, don't "whine" about all you don't get to see.

 

XSI does not hold back information from non-area 51 members, rather they let area-51 know what is going on at a stage where no other company would say anything to the public AT ALL.

 

and again, you don't have to pay if you don't want to support them.

 

peace

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Weta43

Weta43

Posted
Posted

Sorry Summo - got to say you over-reacted.

Only read till the end of page 2, but they were polite & reasonably patient.

Assuming that what they say about being unpaid & using the money for development work is true - more power to them.

ED releases screenshots & technical info in dribs & drabs to their own site, here on the forums & other sites.

If they said that they were starting a system where subscribers could pay to see those screenshots & get that info as it came to hand rather than waiting for them to get around to posting it, I wouldn't pay, but I wouldn't complain either - I wouldn't be missing out on anything I was getting before - & the devs get some extra income - & the people who get something extra (early) pay for that right.

That's pretty much how the world works.

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Cheers.

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Caretaker

Caretaker

Posted
Posted

First, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss here the way they are moderating their forums over at fighterops.com. I'm sure that if you have issues, it's more productive to take it up with them, maybe after sleeping over it again and maybe working on your diplomatic skills a bit ;)

 

As to the point about the 25$ exclusive access deal, while I personally have no interest in that at the moment, I still fail to see how anyone could complain about this. It's not like the game is already out and customers have to pay to get important information or even help. Nope, it's absolutely the developer's right to do this, and as it seems the vast majority of people who are subscribing to that exclusive area (which, just to point that out, makes the information there definitely "non-public" :p) are happy with it.

 

Now whether overall this is a good idea I cannot say; it is also tricky to control communities and their expectations and I don't agree that it's always better to give out as much information as soon as possible - usually some of that will backfire later on ("they promised a Hornet addon!!!" etc.). Unlike bflagg above, I also see major signs of "hype" in some discussions about the Fighter Ops project already, as if plans and good intentions alone would already guarantee the ultimate package. But it's their decision about how they handle all that, and that includes how they distribute information - it is their money and time at risk here after all.

Caretaker

 

ED Beta Test Team

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Guest Smo

Guest Smo

Posted
Posted
guys, you pay 25$ because you want to SUPPORT a group with almost no financial support from the start. If you want to support them, please do, if not, don't "whine" about all you don't get to see.

 

XSI does not hold back information from non-area 51 members, rather they let area-51 know what is going on at a stage where no other company would say anything to the public AT ALL.

 

and again, you don't have to pay if you don't want to support them.

 

peace

 

With the jet fighter sim market being in danger of disappearing alltogether I feel that fighter ops is well worth the $25 support whether I recieve the info early or not. They have my full support and my $25.

 

Heres hoping more join to make this truly a reality.

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Capt.Instigator

Capt.Instigator

Posted
Posted

sumoscouse, You were out of line.. and acted irrational..

 

 

You should have stopped after your first post to that thread but you went overboard. The developement of Fighter Ops is being done buy volunteers..they are not getting paid for all that work. We support ED... XSI...and all flight simulation communities with a small fee for their hard work.

 

Like they told you. You are not requiered to pay but, it helps them a little. This is a grand undertaking, it's going to be the best flight sim money can buy. I will be wiling to pay 80 to 100 dollars for this sim. I know some will not be able to afford it because your in school or still a kid..but if you start saving now you might be able to get it when it comes out buy years end or soon there after.

 

I will buy Black Shark and any other flight sim ED dishes out till I die. Any other sim that any other company makes..if it's any good I will get because I have to support the flight sim gaming world. I have too.

 

With that said... I will end by saying that continue supporting the flight sim community how ever you can. Wait for Fighter Ops to come out and get it if you want or can. The same goes for ED's Black Shark..

 

I'd say you blew it a little over at Fighter ops... and now you are burnt. Banned I believe?

 

Well all is not lost. As an unknown friend I will ask that you change you Nick...I will e-mail Jetster and let him know that I'm buying you a year subscription with you new identity..and you are welcome back to get a firsthand look at what fighter Ops has to offer in detail and in full.

 

PM me with your new Nick...I will make the request to Jetster if it's possible..and you can come back fresh and no one will know it was you..

 

Pm me asap..

FighterOps.jpg
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Cobra747

Cobra747

Posted
Posted

he isnt banned and never was as far as i am aware and is most welcome on Fighter Ops website.

 

only be too happy to continue this debate on the Fighter Ops boards if it is to remain as level-headed as it has been here.

 

a lot of you guys make some very valid points however there also appears to be some mis-information about not only Fighter Ops but also the amount of information that the public get and what area51 is.

 

feel free to ask on our forums and we will try and clear things up.

 

kudos to you sumoscouse for bringing this up in this manner.

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Capt.Instigator

Capt.Instigator

Posted
Posted

Ok... I Pm'd Buckshot and Rick "Jetster" Buckshot told me the only way I could do it was if I sent you the 25 bucks...but Naah !!! I honestly wanted to directly get you in.. but now it's not going to be possible.. Sorry Bud !!

 

I can only suggest you try and not get the bee hive excited over there or here for that matter and keep your nose clean... See you in the sky !!! :icon_kidr

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bflagg

bflagg

Posted
Posted
Unlike bflagg above, I also see major signs of "hype" in some discussions about the Fighter Ops project already, as if plans and good intentions alone would already guarantee the ultimate package.

 

Hi Caretaker..

I should've been a bit clearer but it was a long day when I typed that and I see the hype as you describe it in their forums,,, but it's nothing like it was before LockOn was before it's release (6 mo prior)..

 

they got my 25 and it's worth the gamble (I think).

 

anyway guys ... good nite...

Thanks,

Brett

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SUBS17

SUBS17

Posted
Posted
Arraamis - Thank You

 

I know what I was trying to say and couldn't get my point across as excellently as you have.

 

I did not want to get aggressive or abusive with the individuals at FO and as a result I wanted a little help from LO members to see if I was totally in the wrong for what I said.

 

They started to threaten ones-self with negative reputation votes - WHY?

 

I had an opinion and they didn't like it

 

No need at all :(

 

 

Thank you everyone for your time and comments

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Sumoscouse Out :cool:

 

I think XSIs Area51 subscription is a good idea as it allows the company to kick off with support from the community and the benefits are very good for members. Such as teamspeak with people such as Fighter Pilots and experts in areas related to the sims development. They also have much more information than the community and have the inside knowledge in whats going on and the ability to help out where needed. The added bonus for them is also contests with some very cool prizes. eg trakir, hotas etc.

Go back and have a read of what XSIs goals are

http://www.fighterops.com/tacref.htm

 

Its a very good idea for flight sims and their support is solid, Fighter Pilots, ground crew, technical advisers related to Flight sims. They are using a modified x-plane engine and also have quite a large group of programmers, beta testers etc. BTW I'm not an Area51 member, its not compulsory:D .

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

[/sIGPIC]

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Capt.Instigator

Capt.Instigator

Posted
Posted

efs2 :

....Umm, I didn't see the original thread and so can't add much to the discussion on that, sumoscouse.

But I would definitely like to know more about the "tit bits" that are to be released.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you think we are going to show you some screnies or discuss some insights of FighterOps at area 51... you can hold your breath till I getback from the shitter....It's goingto be a while.. Days maybe !!

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Shepski

Shepski

Posted
Posted

The whole pay for info thing is something I wouldn't personally support but it's their ball... where I do see a potential problem for them is in the release of the demo.

 

The area 51 members will be getting a more feature filled demo then the non members but this seems to be the wrong way to go about getting new people interested in FO. The area 51 members will be be buying FO no matter what but holding back a better more complete demo from the the customers who are checking FO out and are not sure sales seems backwards to me.

 

I would want the most complete and feature filled demo available to those new potential customers rather then a castrated one.

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