A10 Targetting

[iceden]

It is said that the A10 targetting pipper is NOT going to get fixed. The ability to quickly lock a target is key to the A10 survivability, ecspecially when you are under airborne attack also. Completion of missions should be considered with this risk: Will I even be able to lock the target when I am there? Well, if it is in the open, not next to anything, maybe. Can anyone confirm if this issue is not going to get fixed and if so, why? Maybe a fuel level backwards or miscoloration of a wheel, but targeting is crucial to that aircraft doing its role on the sim battlefield. Hopefully this WILL be fixed with the next patch because it makes one wonder if the new helo is going to have issues and which will be fixed or not. When something doesnt work the way it is supposed to, it stops being a sim, and becomes an arcade game.

[lunanera]

please excuse my ignorance but which weapon's pipper are you talking about and what's wrong with it?

[aimmaverick]

100% agreed. This is the issue that should really be addressed in 1.2 cause it is not some minor thiny to just left it over. It significantly decreases A-10 lethality.

ED please implement this before release!

[Force_Feedback]

I think he means the A-G gun pipper, just a guess though (there is no other pipper on the a10 anyway).

 

What do you want to lock with your gun? The main gun is fixed to the aircraft, so you'll have to manoeuver the whole thing, to face teh target, and only then you can aim at it, there is no lock in the a-10, as it lacks any kind of laser/radar system to measure the distance and angular coordinates (besides the pave penny pod, which is a passive laser finder), both in the air and on the ground.

 

Could you perhaps post a screenshot of what you mean?

[aimmaverick]

please excuse my ignorance but which weapon's pipper are you talking about and what's wrong with it?

 

He probably meant Maverick piper which is now not working properly.

[GGTharos]

What's wrong with the maverick pipper? Works fine for me ...

[lunanera]

I guessed you were talking about the AGM-65s but I'm still not clear on what you mean by "not working properly". In my Hog flying (only plane I fly) I haven't noticed anything wrong with the mavs... please give us some more specific info and better still, like FF said, a couple of screens?

 

cheers

[S77th-konkussion]

eh? What's broken? Seems fine to me.

[Shaman]

I guess what Icedens meant is that A-10 lacks the ability that second Maverick's warhead stays locked on current target. So in LockOn game after he fires Maverick he has to find the target with the HUD pipper and TV crosshair and lock next Maverick again.

 

If I remember correctly the first models of Mavericks didn't have mentioned ability, so if that's the scenario then LockOn does portray everything correctly

[lunanera]

Oh... I see, I always thought that the way we have it is the way it is.

 

So IRL ground-stabilizing a Maverick to some point should ground-stabilize them all?

Even if they are on different pylons?

How about different pylons and different models?

[Ironhand]

(Snipped)

So IRL ground-stabilizing a Maverick to some point should ground-stabilize them all?

Even if they are on different pylons?

How about different pylons and different models?

Not quite. In the more recent system--I forget what it's called at the moment--the next seeker in line is already pointing where the last seeker was locked. It is not ground stabilized, however, IIRC. Not sure if the ability spans seeker types or not.

 

But I think Iceden's concern is something else...the tendency of the seeker to lock onto an object other than the target in a cluttered environment. Since it's difficult to slew the seeker in very fine increments, it's hard to isolate the target to lock it. Since the seeker locks based on contrast, often a larger object next to a smaller target will be locked instead.

 

Rich

[S77th-konkussion]

That is true at times. In clutter, the seeker sometimes snaps to some other object even when the intended target is considerably hotter.

 

Bug or actual behavior..?

[lunanera]

hey thanx for the info Ironhand, and since I'm here congratulations on your tutorials, excellent stuff, Tunguskas don't bother me anymore!! Would you by any chance have a couple of links to where you read about the Mavs?

 

But I think Iceden's concern is something else...the tendency of the seeker to lock onto an object other than the target in a cluttered environment.

 

If that truly is your concern Iceden, well... I'm no expert but I believe IRL Mavs have problems too in very cluttered environments. Just make sure your mav always has line-of-sight to the target (don't let hills/trees/buildings get in the way) and be patient... if you feel you're getting too close get out of there and try again, and again... 3rd time lucky! ;)

[Woodstock]

I strongly recommend using the mouse´s 2 axis as A-10/Su-25T TDC input device.

It is so much more precise than any stick´s coolies or microsticks.

Even if you falsely locked the wrong object, you can drag the cursor over

to the right object and it will jump over after some resistance keeping the locks all the time.

I have my mouse either to the far left or behind my HOTAS Cougar throttle

and just switch left hand from throttle to mouse for target designation.

The mouse buttons are comfortably mapped with lock, unlock and TDC

re-center and the wheel zooms IR-Mavs in and out.

 

Give it a try, it´s worth it!:horseback

 

Now, don´t anyone tell me that setup is not "realistic", since e.g. the :icon_sydaTornado:icon_syda

has at exactly the same position on the left side panel behind the throttles

a sort of grip that is used for radar TDC inputs:

 

[britgliderpilot]

Not quite. In the more recent system--I forget what it's called at the moment--the next seeker in line is already pointing where the last seeker was locked. It is not ground stabilized, however, IIRC. Not sure if the ability spans seeker types or not.

 

But I think Iceden's concern is something else...the tendency of the seeker to lock onto an object other than the target in a cluttered environment. Since it's difficult to slew the seeker in very fine increments, it's hard to isolate the target to lock it. Since the seeker locks based on contrast, often a larger object next to a smaller target will be locked instead.

 

Rich

 

It's called Quick Draw, or something very like it.

 

 

"Broken" and "fixed" are both very vague terms here . . . . grin.

[lunanera]

As we descended, Stu tried to lock up the target with

an IIR Maverick. Because of poor thermal contrast with the surrounding

area, the seeker would not lock on to just the vehicle.

 

thnx rugbutt

 

I strongly recommend using the mouse´s 2 axis as A-10/Su-25T TDC input device.

I use

USE MICROSTICK AS MOUSE (12, 2)

and then map the mouse's axes as JaBoG said.

[Ironhand]

It's called Quick Draw, or something very like it.

 

 

"Broken" and "fixed" are both very vague terms here . . . . grin.

Ahhh...yes, 'Quick Draw' sounds right.

 

Yes, the two terms are vague. :) Personally I don't have a problem with the present modeling. It should be difficult to target vehicles, etc sited in tight urban areas or nestled against other contrasting objects.

 

Rich

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup...its called Quick Draw and it only became available at a software level that came after the A-10 which is modelled in LOMAC. I have managed to overcome the cluttered environment problem by usually hitting my ground targets from 13,000 to 15,000 feet. The hotter targets seem to show up in the TVM quite a bit sooner than the colder ones like buildings when you have more slant-range between you and the target area. I'm not sure its a "bug" so much as it is a realistic limitation of the sensors and software on this version of A-10. :D

[S77th-GOYA]

Rugg, could you post some pertinent quotes from that book in regards to this locking problem? Does it name specific Mav versions? In game it does seem very odd that a bright hot vehicle is passed over for the nice cool building sitting next to it by the Mav-D IR seeker.

[GGTharos]

It has specific versions sometimes, but the problem is not the same as that of LOMACs. Mind you a cool building might not be quite as cool as you think, and it could well generate a lot of contrast ... /however/...

 

There is one engagement described where the A-10 attacks a parked and definitely cool (it had been parked there overnight) APC right beside a house. The Mav went straight to the APC and turned it into shrapnel.

 

But keep in mind that because different materials radiate heat differently, they may generate contrast despite being cool.

[S77th-GOYA]

Mind you a cool building might not be quite as cool as you think, and it could well generate a lot of contrast ... /however/...

 

What I think has nothing to do with it. What I see on the cockpit video screen has everything to do with it. Target is white hot and nearby object is not. That's plain enough.

[nscode]

What I see on the cockpit video screen has everything to do with it.

 

Nope.. what software interperts from the data input has ;)

[S77th-GOYA]

True enough. But do you think the software is written to ignore the highest heat signatures? If anything, common sense tells you that the software would jump the lock from the cooler object to the hotter one rather than the other way around.

[nscode]

Waiting for the F-15Es, I attempted to lock up and shoot a Maverick at one of the APCs, but the target contrast was too poor and I came off tar-get dry. As I called to get an update on the fighters, I looked back at the target and saw a long trail of white smoke off my left wing. It had looked like the smoke trail off a Maverick missile, and I had been angry that my wingman had shot one on his own. I hadn’t given him permission, nor had I been able to provide cover for him. When he responded that he’d made no such attack, chills went up my spine. The smoke trail was evidence that a shoulder-fired SAM had been shot at my flight.

 

In other words, what he flew into was a classic (at the time) SAM trap.. what he was trying to lock on were either scrap-heap APC's (so, draged to place by tractors, never got hot) or wooden models (also not so hot ;))..

 

So, this bit actually tels us nothing about what is in question here.

[nscode]

True enough. But do you think the software is written to ignore the highest heat signatures?

 

Yup, I do, very much :) What's the hottest object out there?

 

1) your closes neigburing star

2) the thing you hit a minute ago :)

 

So, there is a threashold above what level something won't be locked on. It definetly should'nt interfear with the process of locking on a true target, but it seemes that in some situations it does. Also, as mentioned before, cluttered situation is also something that could confuse the software