DCS World or Helicopter World

[Dr. Yes]

Parasail breaks up math functions into multiple threads just fine. Whatever it does, its being written by a guy who knows what he's doing. And besides, there are already multi-core engines made and being made. The problem here is that a new multi-core engine will probably have to be made from scratch. That is why companies try to keep boosting their ancient engines. But as you can obviously see in the Arma engine, it reached its limit - online fps scores of 10 to 20 fps. Unplayable. As for the DCS engine, we'll see what EDGE can do.

[8core]

all the things I've asked for except one has been confirmed so far...

 

1. a better engine...we are getting it...EDGE

 

2. an American attack helo.....here comes the cobra (I can shoot down a blackshark in this...dare me)

 

3. a multi role fighter...Bang..the F-18...we have known about this for a while now...

 

4. Ground unit control.....Combined Arms...which also has an upgrade coming one day

 

5. I want it all NOW!!!!!

 

 

 

I guess in the overall scheme of things, 4 out of 5 aint bad....and the one goal they didnt reach isnt very realistic either....when I get mad about that one, I go play clod(TF4) or arma3....why...because realistically this is the only thing I can do...

 

and you know what....one day I will look up....and #5 on my list will have a check mark next to it...till then...FLAME WARS 2014...here we go...(I wish my warning lvl on these forums got reset every year...like my taxes...)

 

miracle that I found someone who thinks like me ... live in the real world

Edited January 11, 2014 by 8core

[blksolo]

I was the one that said F-18C was at least two years out,they are backlogged on the stuff they are working on now!! And they even said not to expect any info on the Hornet for at LEAST a year. Not a chance of seeing DCS Hornet this year. I bet we wont see EDGE till June of this year,and DCS F-18C Fall of 2015. I'm just speculating just like the rest of you,In the end NONE of us know!!

[Dr. Yes]

Yeah, except kids these days mostly aren't willing to spend (especially in America, which is getting poorer and poorer ) what you really need to enjoy this game. I myself play with an old RC controller that I can hook to a PC. Can't afford a HOTAS or even TrackIr. I fall pretty much into the majority of gamers. That, and then you have the majority who would rather get into Battlefield or even Arma 3 then be stuck with only flightsim. To lure in more people, the sim really needs "ground" simulation as well. You come in from Arma or even Battlefield and look at the ground, and you think "bleh". It looks decent from high up, but at low level hell in a heli, it looks like something from the 90's.

 

And knowing DCS since Black Shark released, I'm guessing, yeah, it'll probably be two years till the Hornet also. EDGE still being a few months away is also a pretty good guess.

[SkateZilla]

Parasail breaks up math functions into multiple threads just fine. Whatever it does, its being written by a guy who knows what he's doing. And besides, there are already multi-core engines made and being made. The problem here is that a new multi-core engine will probably have to be made from scratch. That is why companies try to keep boosting their ancient engines. But as you can obviously see in the Arma engine, it reached its limit - online fps scores of 10 to 20 fps. Unplayable. As for the DCS engine, we'll see what EDGE can do.

 

 

FPS is mainly a GFX Engine Issue... Whether the Rendering Pipe is aged or just inefficient.

 

As for Multiple Threads, as I Said, things need to be done to the point where everything has to be calculated at a specific frequency, and others at another, which if not done well will cause desync/timing miss issues.

 

Using Software Programs to divide a Single Thread into Multiple Threads, This will cause more problems as the you now add another layer of software between the Source and the Hardware it needs.

[EtherealN]

I was the one that said F-18C was at least two years out,they are backlogged on the stuff they are working on now!! And they even said not to expect any info on the Hornet for at LEAST a year. Not a chance of seeing DCS Hornet this year. I bet we wont see EDGE till June of this year,and DCS F-18C Fall of 2015. I'm just speculating just like the rest of you,In the end NONE of us know!!

 

Actually, what you said was not just that, but also that ED "havent even started on it yet."

 

That would have been a claim that would have to be supported. There's a difference between "don't expect information" and "we haven't started". Telling you not to expect new information on it means don't expect new information on it. ;)

[Cedaway]

Parasail breaks up math functions into multiple threads just fine. Whatever it does, its being written by a guy who knows what he's doing. And besides, there are already multi-core engines made and being made. The problem here is that a new multi-core engine will probably have to be made from scratch. That is why companies try to keep boosting their ancient engines. But as you can obviously see in the Arma engine, it reached its limit - online fps scores of 10 to 20 fps. Unplayable. As for the DCS engine, we'll see what EDGE can do.

 

Such software adds complexity in an already very complicated program. As said before by ED team, the program should be entirely re-written from scratch with multi-thread/core in mind. EDGE is one step beyond, supporting the multi-threaded rendering engine.

 

I found also a discussion saying the following:

 

DrQuine POSTED: JUL 4, 2012 12:34 AM EDT

 

The devil is always in the details. How does this system address the unexpected? The word counting algorithm that runs into an unexpected string pattern that is ambiguous or a string that is growing faster than it can be counted? What happens when one of the threads never returns? What happens when a variable overflows? Traditional programs often return error codes or conditions, will we now receive 2^^N error codes at the end of a run and have to work through then entire array of problems? Debugging may increase in complexity faster than the improved throughput delivers benefits. Already most applications are replete with bugs; I have a hunch that unknown bugs will become a major issue in the parallel processing environment. Reproducing and correcting the bugs will become ever more difficult because the context of different runs may cause the pattern of data assignments to processors to be slightly different.

 

REPLY

 

 

Sttaft POSTED: JUL 28, 2012 3:02 PM EDT

 

The debugging challenge for parallel programming is one of the main reasons ParaSail strives to eliminate many sources of complexity, including pointers, global variables, aliasing, explicit lock/unlock and signal/wait, and run-time exception handling. Instead of run-time exception handling, the compiler helps the programmer to ensure that all possible error conditions are properly handled, providing what might be called "compile-time" exception handling.

 

REPLY

 

Source

Edited January 10, 2014 by Cedaway

[Dudester22]

Oh, I know some programming. And yeah, I know how hard it will be make an engine that can use multiple cores. You'll basically have to start over. But there have been multicore using engines made now ( Outerra, for one. ). And there is a multicore - scaling language called Parasail being developed now. When the compiler compiles the language, it automatically divides up functions, etc. into multiple threads going to multiple cores. In the near future, all the new engines will be multi-core. Anything that isn't will be considered a dinosaur.

 

And personally, when I see one of my cores about ready to explode, and the rest just sitting there, it makes me want to scream.

 

The problem isn't the cores it's the number of Development Teams making flight Sims. Who else apart from Eagle Dynamics and the Makers of ROF are making these Sims? Is there any other Developers starting for scratch with a new engine anywhere?. I have to say when it comes to graphics that BOS looks and plays beautiful. Lets hope Edge brings the same to this game.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Dudester22

[blksolo]

Actually, what you said was not just that, but also that ED "havent even started on it yet."

 

That would have been a claim that would have to be supported. There's a difference between "don't expect information" and "we haven't started". Telling you not to expect new information on it means don't expect new information on it. ;)

I cant support my claim any more than you can support that they have started it lol. The point I'm making as far as ED is concerned is a total lack of info means the product is years away from being completed. Think about it,no established company blindsides you with a new release,you hear about it years beforehand and they pretend it was a leak. You know whats funny when you go to DCS website you see an F-18C,an Apache,an M1 Abrams and a Naval Destroyer....None of which are available from ED in any form.
Edited January 10, 2014 by blksolo

[EtherealN]

I cant support my claim any more than you can support that they have started it lol. The point I'm making as far as ED is concerned is a total lack of info means the product is years away from being completed. Think about it,no established company blindsides you with a new release,you hear about it years beforehand and they pretend it was a leak.

 

I realize you are new, but you might want to ask around about, for example, the Black Shark 2 release. Funny how you use the term "blindside"; I recall most people felt completely blindsided by that release. ;)

 

Seriously, ED has stated several times that work is ongoing on the 18C. So that's what is happening. If you want to say something else, you'll be asked for sources to back you up. And to continue a bit with the example of DCS P-51D:

 

Announced: 21st of January 2012.

Released to pre-orders: 29th of April, 2012.

 

Do you seriously think ED got from nothing to flyable public beta in 4 months? ;)

 

You know whats funny when you go to DCS website you see an F-18C,an Apache,an M1 Abrams and a Naval Destroyer....None of which are available from ED in any form.

 

And what is happening here? :)

 

 

Though, if you prefer it, you can get some other things on the banner.

 

 

Yes, I know reading the site in russian would probably not be helpful to you. My point however is that all the units on the banner are actually in the game. They are however not there to show you what is flyable, that happens below. It's just a decorative banner on a website, don't look into it too much. :)

Edited January 10, 2014 by EtherealN

[NineLine]

miracle that I found someone who thinks like me ... live in the real world

my life is, I have to work and study not to waste time to continue employee to continue employment

here they think like a tribe of primates.

The world is fast is fast

act fast and work fast to keep employee.

but they work as primates

without worrying ...

I live in Brazil. planet where everything is fast, stands still when you are dead.

what planet do they live?

 

So you think ED is standing still and not working hard on their product? What facts do you have to support that, I suspect none. You should try being less negative all the time, that will really eat you up after a while... maybe take a break, go outside and enjoy that fast paced Brazil environment...

[Macka]

This looks like a "

" to me. Whether its the one being prioritized or actively developed is another question but Iris Simulations " is 100% invested in DCS: World as a simulation platform" contrary to some uninformed guesses and speculation in this thread. As has also been mentioned re ED and other developers just coz you haven't heard them shouting from the rooftops doesn't mean work isn't progressing by several developers in the background.

 

Read more http://www.irissimulations.com.au/forum/announcements-1/dcs-world-and-iris

Edited January 10, 2014 by Macka
Speeling :)

[Іван петров]

This looks like DCHelos because Belsimtek (part of his team ) was part of ED and separated them, and knew the creation and editing programs to develop aircraft and the AFM. Hence they have filled the market with their helicopters and have advantage over other developers.

 

DCS F18 ED depends on being able to repair naval models ....., why do you want a F18 if you can not perform operations on aircraft carriers ? . Your AFM depend on coordination between naval units and air units so far is bad DCSW .

 

And then there are the AA radar ...... it is easier to simulate aircraft for two generations because they have requirements radar .... but any aircraft wanting a model similar to the real battle must wait ED improve or adapt your code so that you can simulate accurately .

 

In short , we have Belsimtek with a competitive advantage .

And other studies with initial problems of code, development tools, etc. ...., and with the limitations already mentioned both AFM, behaviors radar ..... etc .

 

I therefore believe that , currently , it is easier to simulate, piston aircraft by other companies and have developed on other platforms .... like RPG ...... ( CoD ) .... and no .... you know ? ?

 

 

Дрэннае час для баявых самалётаў :music_whistling:

[USCav]

The very idea that in time we will be flying a full DCS fidelity F/A-18C and launching JSOWs n' shit make my pants fit all funny. I'm used to the development timeframe of Cornered Rat Software's World War II Online, they haven't seen an update in years.

[Rikus]

DCS F18 ED depends on being able to repair naval models ....., why do you want a F18 if you can not perform operations on aircraft carriers ? . Your AFM depend on coordination between naval units and air units so far is bad DCSW .

 

I said DCS F18 because i know is the DCS Fast Jet that ED is working on.

 

If i can choose i will choose MIG29 or SU27/33

[Rikus]

We have helicopters, CAS planes, but how will you take the space superiority?

 

I talk about DCS level, dont tell me FC3

 

With what plane? MIG21, L39, Hawk?

 

ED should finish some years ago a fast jet, for example with the plane that all started, the flanker.

 

They are with F18 ok, its a fast mover at least, but when? my bet again at the end of 2015, and only if we are lucky

[Exorcet]

DCS F18 ED depends on being able to repair naval models ....., why do you want a F18 if you can not perform operations on aircraft carriers ? . Your AFM depend on coordination between naval units and air units so far is bad DCSW .

 

I'm not a F-18 fan, but I don't see what the problem is with using it from land. I'll probably be flying for Canada in the sim a lot of the time since the carrier thing is not that big a deal for me (but I do admit, having a carrier aircraft really expands our undersized map which for me is a huge issue).

[SkateZilla]

 

DCS F18 ED depends on being able to repair naval models ....., why do you want a F18 if you can not perform operations on aircraft carriers ? . Your AFM depend on coordination between naval units and air units so far is bad DCSW .

 

Not all Legacy F-18's in Active Service are Carrier based.

RAAF (Austrailia), Canada, Finland, Kuwait, Malaysia, Spain and Switzerland.

[Growler]

Not all Legacy F-18's in Active Service are Carrier based.

RAAF (Austrailia), Canada, Finland, Kuwait, Malaysia, Spain and Switzerland.

 

Right. But most of the F/A-18 fans want Carrier Ops. You can start without them but eventually you must give them what they want. Besides, Naval Ops open the door to other popular Carrier aircrafts, for example: Tomcat, Harrier, Intruder, Corsair, etc.

[Rikus]

ED can always add Carrier Ops in future patchs, i don´t think thats the reason for delay it more than normal.

[Dr. Yes]

ED can always add Carrier Ops in future patchs, i don´t think thats the reason for delay it more than normal.

 

Agreed. ED needs to keep interest alive in their product by coming out with the next jet / EDGE. The engine is quickly becoming obsolete. Even Outerra appears to have been one upped now by the Novae Engine ( forget worlds, it can do whole galaxies :doh:).

 

[msalama]

but how will you take the space superiority?

 

By boldly going where no man has gone before.

[NineLine]

ED can always add Carrier Ops in future patchs, i don´t think thats the reason for delay it more than normal.

 

 

I think there are alot of things hinging on EDGE right now as well, this very well could be one of them, at the very least their resources are focused on getting EDGE in the game. Its probably the most important next step in DCS World evolution, least logically... I am just guessing of course, but it seems to make sense.

[kontiuka]

Just curious, does ED have a military contract to develop an F/A-18C simulator as they did with the A-10C?

[NineLine]

Just curious, does ED have a military contract to develop an F/A-18C simulator as they did with the A-10C?

 

 

They havent gone into details about anything like that as far as I know.