F-15C combat questions

[GGTharos]

1. Maybe

2. Why are you using flood instead of some other auto-acquisition mode? FLOOD is there in the real jet in case the radar fails to keep track or the missiles are launched without STT, and is actually a completely separate horn antenna. There's basically no reason to use it in-game.

[TAW_Blaze]

There is, since it's silent. When ED happens to fix it, it'll be moot.

[HiJack]

1. Maybe

2. Why are you using flood instead of some other auto-acquisition mode? FLOOD is there in the real jet in case the radar fails to keep track or the missiles are launched without STT, and is actually a completely separate horn antenna. There's basically no reason to use it in-game.

Must fix FLOOD MODE! :)

[will-]

Must fix FLOOD MODE! :)

 

what is wrong with flood mode?

 

FLOOD is called this way for a reason. It blasts an HPRF waveform out of a horn (NOT the radar antenna), used to guide an AIM-7. It's the same as going STT on someone from their perspective.

 

So if you're only getting a search indication from it, it's extra wrong.

 

@blkspade: That would be correct. Either an STT + launch indication the moment the FLOOD hits them, or just STT warning. Anything else is incorrect.

 

 

REALLY???!! In MY world i thought it didn't show them any notification on the RWR. hmm, gotta ask this honestly... is it not fixed in the game b/c we do not know how these missiles react IRL or is this FC3 game just a, oh i unno one big arcade game where we are now going to say ER > ET> not fair, blah blah.. ?

Edited March 30, 2014 by will-

[TAW_Blaze]

what is wrong with flood mode?

 

It doesn't give away the lock tone and it doesn't give away the launch warning. :D

[blkspade]

I've been getting pretty good at locating targets with FLOOD mode, but I'm having trouble getting the AIM-7M on target. I usually fire after the "Launch Permission" lights stay lit for 2-3 seconds, but sometimes they go dark almost immediately after launch. Two questions here:

1. Can a Sparrow that has lost a FLOOD radar return regain a "lock" if the steering circle is re-positioned quickly onto the target?

2. If I get a FLOOD return, should I try to get a true lock in a CAC acquisition mode before firing, or concentrate on getting a better aspect angle and thus a bigger cross section for the Sparrow to hunt for?

 

Basically any situation that would result in loss of radar lock also causes flood mode to fail (in game). So if the bandit enters the notch, or sometimes even turns cold while in high PRF, Flood mode will lose them. If it suddenly goes dark they probably spotted the launch and maneuvered accordingly. Or dumb luck. I have seen my AIM-7s reacquire targets after taking what seems like a temporary ballistic path, but it doesn't happen often and usually from STT.

[MauganRa84]

Got my first online AIM-7 kill in flood mode the other day. Second kill overall in the F-15C online for me. It truly does feel extra good when it all works well with the 7. :smoke:

 

I've been playing for years but never got around to using the Eagle. Too caught up in the magic of the Russian hardware. But now I'm loving the Eagle. Can't wait for the AFM coming real soon. :D:joystick::pilotfly:

[TAW_Blaze]

Indeed, always a real thrill to kill someone with a sparrow. :)

[L0op8ack]

I've been getting pretty good at locating targets with FLOOD mode, but I'm having trouble getting the AIM-7M on target. I usually fire after the "Launch Permission" lights stay lit for 2-3 seconds, but sometimes they go dark almost immediately after launch. Two questions here:

1. Can a Sparrow that has lost a FLOOD radar return regain a "lock" if the steering circle is re-positioned quickly onto the target?

2. If I get a FLOOD return, should I try to get a true lock in a CAC acquisition mode before firing, or concentrate on getting a better aspect angle and thus a bigger cross section for the Sparrow to hunt for?

 

When you got something in flood mode, you can switch to Boresight AACQ (4 ) mode, expecting a hard stt lock, your target will have little chance.

Edited April 2, 2014 by L0op8ack

[HiJack]

When you got something in flood mode, you can switch to Boresight AACQ (4 ) mode, expecting a hard stt lock, your target will have little chance.

Hmm, won't you then spook your target when locking in stt?

[blkspade]

Hmm, won't you then spook your target when locking in stt?

 

If you're in range for flood mode acquisition and have fired before going STT, its not going to matter much for them at that point. You aren't exactly invisible in flood, they'll see you as a close RWR contact regardless and ought to be looking in your direction anyway. So it essentially looks like you have an ET inbound.

[winchesterdelta1]

I need to know how to activate this flood mode. Some of the kills they got on me suddenly makes sens now. I have seen the term around here on the forums and people talking about it on TS but never knew the advantages it has.

In wich ideal situations would you use flood mode? And when not to? When used right, can this give me a edge in reacquiring a lock when lost in close ranges?

[TAW_Blaze]

Basically when you have a visual on him and he isn't targeting you or he just doesn't know you're there. You have no indication of where the bandit is nor how far he is so you really need to see him with your eyes, otherwise you're just gambling.

[Pyroflash]

gambling.

 

This is the only reason. Executing proper tactics that don't necessitate the need for you to get into a fight untargeted will put you in a better position almost all of the time. For these situations, you are now carrying at least one missile that could be an AIM-120C, but isn't.

[lunaticfringe]

And this one goes out to Maverick, and anyone else who has had the joy of socking some unsuspecting sucker in the nose with a Sparrow...

 

[*Rage*]

Or an ER :)

[L0op8ack]

If you're in range for flood mode acquisition and have fired before going STT, its not going to matter much for them at that point. You aren't exactly invisible in flood, they'll see you as a close RWR contact regardless and ought to be looking in your direction anyway. So it essentially looks like you have an ET inbound.

 

If the target can be acquired by flood mode, STT lock will be expected 99.9% of the time, rudder left or right / visual contact always helps.

In STT, it will be much easier for you to judge what the target's plan is (shoot back or escape) : the VV tells all,

then you can execute proper tactics accordingly: push or turn deeper into his six.

Edited April 2, 2014 by L0op8ack

[TAW_Blaze]

This is the only reason. Executing proper tactics that don't necessitate the need for you to get into a fight untargeted will put you in a better position almost all of the time. For these situations, you are now carrying at least one missile that could be an AIM-120C, but isn't.

 

Or you will miss a kill that you can only get with the sparrow. Again, until it's fixed. A single sparrow is worth it right now IMO, in some scenarios the guy will be able to live if you give him the hardlock or the launch but you can give him the false sense of security and down him. If you have a visual and you know what he's doing it's not gambling anymore but executing a very good ambush. One problematic aspect is that you're focusing on him and you probably won't know about his friends, but there are ways to help this.

 

Being untargeted is always a big bonus, being unseen is even bigger. More experienced pilots will generally only get killed due to the lack of SA, unless they're flying completely YOLO. So if I have the chance of making an ambush like that, and my judgement is that I'm safe to do so, I'll do it.

 

Ambushing is a legit tactic, even in real life. It's situational, but it sure as hell works when the situation's right. In that situation, it'll give you a far better position than using other tactics that involve hardlocking or firing too soon that gives away key information to the enemy. However it is down to the pilot to judge whether it's safe or not.

 

If the target can be acquired by flood mode, STT lock will be expected 99.9% of the time, rudder left or right / visual contact always helps.

In STT, it will be much easier for you to judge what the target's plan is (shoot back or escape) : the VV tells all,

then you can execute proper tactics accordingly: push or turn deeper into his six.

You missed the logic behind using flood, you use TWS to get enough SA and then transition it to flood once you have visual, or if the fight begins close in you go straight into flood after having a visual (ID might be problematic in this case). If you know he's going for you, you don't want to go for the flood shot. If you're in doubt, just STT him, I lost count how many times I got killed because I tried to get a TWS bug inside 5 miles instead of just going STT (it takes a lot longer for the radar to build a track than detecting the guy in RWS). Sometimes I still do it, but for the most part I've learnt that lesson. :D Edited April 3, 2014 by <Blaze>

[L0op8ack]

Or you will miss a kill that you can only get with the sparrow. Again, until it's fixed. A single sparrow is worth it right now IMO, in some scenarios the guy will be able to live if you give him the hardlock or the launch but you can give him the false sense of security and down him. If you have a visual and you know what he's doing it's not gambling anymore but executing a very good ambush. One problematic aspect is that you're focusing on him and you probably won't know about his friends, but there are ways to help this.

 

Being untargeted is always a big bonus, being unseen is even bigger. More experienced pilots will generally only get killed due to the lack of SA, unless they're flying completely YOLO. So if I have the chance of making an ambush like that, and my judgement is that I'm safe to do so, I'll do it.

 

Ambushing is a legit tactic, even in real life. It's situational, but it sure as hell works when the situation's right. In that situation, it'll give you a far better position than using other tactics that involve hardlocking or firing too soon that gives away key information to the enemy. However it is down to the pilot to judge whether it's safe or not.

 

You missed the logic behind using flood, you use TWS to get enough SA and then transition it to flood once you have visual, or if the fight begins close in you go straight into flood after having a visual (ID might be problematic in this case). If you know he's going for you, you don't want to go for the flood shot. If you're in doubt, just STT him, I lost count how many times I got killed because I tried to get a TWS bug inside 5 miles instead of just going STT (it takes a lot longer for the radar to build a track than detecting the guy in RWS). Sometimes I still do it, but for the most part I've learnt that lesson. :D

 

Your radar paint him so long a time, if the guy did nothing, you will get an easy kill anyway, whatever mode you use, flood mode just make it more fun, LOL

Edited April 3, 2014 by L0op8ack

[TAW_Blaze]

Your radar paint him so long a time, if the guy did nothing, you will get an easy kill anyway, whatever mode you use, flood mode just make it more fun, LOL

 

Indeed. Sometimes in the middle of everything you forget about it though, and you just ignore that nail, or just assume you're targeting his wingman, or whatever else. If you give him a launch warning, he has way better chances of surviving. In some more extreme cases, you can approach at an angle where his RWR is blind, but that's quite a limited option.

Edited April 3, 2014 by <Blaze>

[L0op8ack]

Indeed. Sometimes in the middle of everything you forget about it though' date=' and you just ignore that nail. In some more extreme cases, you can approach at an angle where his RWR is blind, but that's quite a limited option.[/quote']

 

HI-LOW 90 degree dive, catching guys hidden in the vally.

:megalol:

[TAW_Blaze]

HI-LOW 90 degree dive, catching guys hidden in the vally.

:megalol:

 

**** the radar and missiles, real men kill with the gun while the HUD's turned off. :megalol:

[Pyroflash]

All I'm saying is that, Inside 4 miles, good luck trying to evade an AMRAAM. You don't have to hardlock him either. If you are visual, you always have the option of mad dogging him. Using flood mode introduces a number of other issues that could prove detrimental to your survival or combat efficacy.

 

The real question is, though, what is the best weapon for the job? Do you sortie out every time expecting to use flood mode? Or, are you the survival pack rat type of guy who packs away a dozen tricks just because a situation may arise where one of those is useful?

 

When I sortie out in an F-15C, I don't carry any sparrows. The reason being is that they aren't nearly as useful as an AIM-120 for the type of tactics being used. I don't expect to get within visual range of someone. I certainly don't expect to get into visual range of someone without them seeing me. If I get caught in a visual scenario (< 5nm), the AIM-9M works plenty well. Nine times out of ten though, I am only there in the first place because something has gone horribly wrong with the engagement. Having a tactically useless missile only increases the chance that I am in that sort of situation. It is sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Of course, I am not discounting the fun factor of potentially snagging someone with a shot like that. For the times it works right, it is pretty glorious to watch.

[Frostie]

Carrying AIM-7 is always handy, after saving plenty of friendlies losing merges against Flankers and MiGs, the Sparrow is a must for me. AIM-120 is just not an option in that situation.

[blkspade]

Carrying AIM-7 is always handy, after saving plenty of friendlies losing merges against Flankers and MiGs, the Sparrow is a must for me. AIM-120 is just not an option in that situation.

 

What I was about to say. The 7 is good to have with the intention of being a wasted missile just to push a bandit off a friendly's 6.