Help with takeoff/landing

[Nealius]

I am seriously having issues with the Mustang now, and I need some help.

 

First, Takeoff:

 

I try to advance the throttle slowly and smoothly, but I have found that only 25% throttle results in 46 MP. Basically I get huge MP gains with very little throttle movement, making slow inputs difficult. I tried taking off per manual instructions (50 MP rudder trim 6* right) and the torque still made the plane go off to the left. So I started doing takeoffs with 40-45MP and rudder trim 5* right only to have the plane go off to the right, although I can manage to get airborne before going into the grass.

 

Second, Landing:

 

My approaches are usually good. My landing itself is good, a solid 3-point at 90~100 IAS with minimal bounce and idle throttle. Then all of a sudden the plane goes off to the left for absolutely no damn reason and despite me jamming right rudder it continues to go left into the grass. Once in the grass the right rudder randomly decides to kick in, I nose over, and flip. Every. Single. Time. I really don't understand why it won't stay straight. :joystick:

 

When I have time I will post some tracks.

[Blech]

Hi,

 

 

The increase of the MP is normal.

I have the following MP`s - throttle % ( RCtrl Enter - Controls indicator )

 

 

25 % 40

50 50

100 61

 

 

Look at page 127-129

 

Take - Off

MP 61

RPM 3000

 

o Rudder trim: 5° right

o Aileron trim: 0°

o Elevator trim: 2° nose heavy for full fuel and no drop tanks; 4° nose heavy for full fuel with drop tanks.

 

I move the stick full back - locks the tail wheel

Slowly up to 60" MP and 3000 RPM

At 100 mph stick forward half way from back to center position

At 120 mph airplane takes off

Gear in

Trim reset

 

I have no problems with any "torque action" during the takeoff

 

 

Airborne :

Stick ( I have no seperate rudder ) in center position

Plane slowly drifts right downwards

 

Landing - nothing special :

After touch down - throttle full back and 1000 RPM

( Stick centered when direction is ok )

#### Edit

Stick back

Roll out

Brakes

 

 

Perhaps You should have a look to the control axis settings ( curves, deadzones ? )

 

Crosswind settings ? ( mission editor )

Edited January 22, 2014 by Blech

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

for your landing issues...

it might be very helpfull, that once you are on ground, to keep the stick pulled back...this will lock the tailwheel, and you should have no problems to keep her straight.

[Blech]

for your landing issues...

it might be very helpfull, that once you are on ground, to keep the stick pulled back...this will lock the tailwheel, and you should have no problems to keep her straight.

 

Hi,

 

You are right

I landed and I pull back the stick a little ( automatically )

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Take a look at these tracks (made in the latest open beta). For added benefit, make sure the control position display is up.

 

It isn't necessary to lock the tail wheel for takeoff. As you'll see even with max power it's perfectly controllable. The trick is to get some speed then get the tail off the ground SLOWLY. The faster it comes up, the greater the tendency to yaw.

 

For landing (if you have pedals) instead of using the rudder and risking a pilot induced oscillation, try using differential braking during the roll out. You should find it much more controllable.

takeoff.trk

landing.trk

[Nealius]

The loss of control on landing happens almost immediately after touchdown. If I tried differential breaking I would plant my nose right into the runway at that speed. I'll work on some tracks today.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Immediately? Strange. Differential braking is ok at any speed, just don't slam them on.

[Buzzles]

I've found for take off that trying to be too conservative with the power ends badly more often than not. Trying to take off around 45-50mp just results in over correcting when it starts yawing as you've not got enough force pulling you straight.

 

I normally aim for about 2900 rpm and about 55"-60" on the manifold with 5-6 degree right.

 

 

On landing, dunno why you're yawing massively, but I've found the P51D is very sensitive to any rudder input just after you touch down, even with a curve of 15. You have to be very gentle and try and make sure the ball is totally centered when you hit the deck.

 

If you're using a twist action joystick, make sure your sticks centered feel is actually center and isn't giving false inputs (I have to have a deadzone of 8/9 on my twist axis to actually have it act properly when centered).

Edited January 22, 2014 by Buzzles

[Nealius]

I have curves on my rudder pedals set to 20~25 thereabouts, I'll have to check. As for centering the ball on landing, I can't really do that because I have to go head-down to look at the ball and can't see out the canopy...

[sobek]

It isn't necessary to lock the tail wheel for takeoff.

 

Yes it is. If you insist on the opposite, you have never tried to take off with an unlocked tail wheel. :)

[Merlin-27]

Yes it is. If you insist on the opposite, you have never tried to take off with an unlocked tail wheel. :)

 

Agreed. Unless you can spin the plane off the ground. :D

[Yob]

Well, i dont use Lock tail wheel, unless i am doing it with out knowing......

[Merlin-27]

The tail wheel is limited unless you push forward on the stick, then it is free castoring and quite difficult to keep straight unless it is locked again.

[Nealius]

I finally landed it without flipping! My takeoff was not very straight, and neither was my landing rollout, but somehow I managed not to encounter that strange yawing like I used to. I really don't know how I did it this time other than the fact that my MP was at around 20~25 on short final and I cut the throttle right before touchdown. I was also about 10~15mph faster than I normally land.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Yes it is. If you insist on the opposite, you have never tried to take off with an unlocked tail wheel. :)

 

Sure I have. Take a look at my track, stick stays forward of neutral through the takeoff roll right up until the point I pull up to get airborne.

 

I also fly a Super Decathlon RW; the tail wheel in that doesn't lock in that either, and the takeoff roll begins in that with the stick full forward.

[sobek]

Sure I have. Take a look at my track, stick stays forward of neutral through the takeoff roll right up until the point I pull up to get airborne.

 

No it doesn't. Your stick stays in neutral until you force the nose down at about 100mph. Until then, your tailwheel is in locked position. Even then i'm not sure whether you pushed it forward far enough for the wheel to unlock.

 

As i said, i think you haven't ever tried to do it. ;)

 

I also fly a Super Decathlon RW; the tail wheel in that doesn't lock in that either, and the takeoff roll begins in that with the stick full forward.

 

I take it that the Super Decathlon you fly doesn't have 1400 HP on takeoff? :)

Edited January 23, 2014 by sobek

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Hahaha, no!

 

Here's another quick and dirty track with stick full forward, just to squish any debate about the tailwheel being unlocked.

takeoff1.trk

[Nealius]

The last time I tried taxiing with an unlocked tail wheel the thing got stuck and wouldn't center so I just went around in circles.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The last time I tried taxiing with an unlocked tail wheel the thing got stuck and wouldn't center so I just went around in circles.

 

Yeah, it won't lock again until you've first brought the stick back, then got the tail wheel back to centre. I imagine that's tricky without pedals and toe brakes.

[sobek]

Here's another quick and dirty track with stick full forward, just to squish any debate about the tailwheel being unlocked.

 

Well done.

 

Now, do you really consider it prudent to tell people having difficulties with normal handling that you don't need a locked tailwheel when even you needed the whole width of the runway for a takeoff? :)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Well done.

 

Now, do you really consider it prudent to tell people having difficulties with normal handling that you don't need a locked tailwheel when even you needed the whole width of the runway for a takeoff? :)

 

Cheek! :lol:

 

You're probably right about the people with difficulties though.

 

However, I think it's good practice to learn to takeoff without the stick too far back, especially towards the end of the ground roll, so that you get a more gentle lift off.

[Merlin-27]

No one in their right mind would ever suggest a takeoff roll with the tailwheel unlocked. Its sole purpose is to assist turning radius. Why would you chance a ground loop when you don't have to? Of course after the tail lifts near 100 mph you can go forward on the stick. The Actual P-51D flight manual tells you to keep the tail wheel locked when taking off.

[sobek]

Cheek! :lol:

 

Lol, don't get cocky. ;) You think i didn't notice that you had to completely firewall the throttle so you had *any* rudder authority when starting to roll? :)

 

Do that a few times and at the next engine overhaul your wallet will tell you if this is a good way to take off. :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Lol, don't get cocky. ;) You think i didn't notice that you had to completely firewall the throttle so you had *any* rudder authority when starting to roll? :)

 

Do that a few times and at the next engine overhaul your wallet will tell you if this is a good way to take off. :D

 

Haha, I can try again with less MP/slower throttle opening if you like!

[BitMaster]

Hey,

 

apply 5.5° right rudder, keep the tailwheel locked as it is, apply around 45-60 MP and take off.

 

Anything else is PRACTISE !!!

 

You have to get the feeling when to do what and there is no golden rule when to do what when you apply power to a high torque engine. If you feel for it, point your nose lil to the right to compensate initial rotation that you CANNOT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES compensate by any input if you have done the mistake to open the throttle to fast !!!

 

The key is not to learn how to deal with the rudder, its the knowledge of how you APPLY THROTTLE first place. Don't do it too slow, don't rush it forwards either, each plane is different and it all is owed to the torque that you cannot compensate while you are too slow. They key is to have the mass of the AC compensate for the force pushed into it. If you overdo it, its too late.

 

Basically you have to stay in the limits of the inertia of mass, this is your only friend with high torque engines, anything else is useless when still slow.

 

IF I crash my planes, there is no RESPAWN..and they have in relative comparison by far more torque and power/weight than any WII plane ever had, despite they are WWII R/C aircraft, just overpowered with Supercharged 4-Stroke Engines to have some OOOMPS up there were they belong.

 

Bit

Edited January 26, 2014 by BitMaster