Su-27 instruments functions (?)

[grunf]

As far as I understand the details, Svend_Dellepude is right.

 

The Б.Бой-Д.Бой is used to switch between short-long range missiles (and similar weapons).

 

Yep, it seems I was wrong.

 

Б. Бой = Ближний маневренный бой

Mid-range maneuver combat

(Воздушный бой = dogfight)

I think Ближний means close, despite what google says.

 

Disclaimer: my knowledge of Russian is also very limited. :D

[Bourrinopathe]

You're right, thanks ;)

Even the translation from Russian to French is "close" (proche).

 

(one of the best translation weapon is a Russian dictionary)

[Krippz]

This is actually really helpful; thanks mate.

 

Here's the fuel gauge warning lights with the corresponding fuel levels:

 

 

And that's the note next to the HDD:

 

 

I only tested the first warning light and it's on with 5014kg left (not 5590kg as suggested in the note).

(Su-27 for DCS 1.2.14)

 

UPDATE: the in-game values are:

 

Бак 4,1....5014 kg

Бак 3.......4004 kg

1.5...........1504 kg

Бак 5.......1004 kg

0.6.............604 kg

 

Based on the Su-27SK manual, there should be 4 fuel tank groups:

 

Схема расположения топливных баков

 

 

The Su-27 has a rather precise fuel consumption sequence elaborated to preserve its maneuverability/balance (Center of Mass (CM)) (depending on the initial fuel quantity):

 

 

Based on the sequence, the first warning light is on when the tanks 4, 1 and most of the wings tanks are empty (tank 3).

On the fuel gauge, the lights do not exactly correspond to an empty tank (=Бак):

• Б4,1 probably stand for Бак 4 and 1 (9400-5014=4386kg --> Su-27SK tanks 1+4=4180kg | that's close enough ;) )
  
• Б3 obviously stands for tank 3 (5590-4430=1160kg (using the note | close to the Su-27SK manual (1060kg)))
  
• 1.5 is the 1500kg warning (+ vocal warning message)
  
• Б5 (880kg warning (note)) should mean there's a tank 5 (?) there's a 800kg vocal warning message too.
  
• 0,6 is the bingo fuel last warning (w/ vocal warning message and bingo fuel vocal message)
  

 

The fuel measurement has an accuracy of ± 170 kg.

 

Game/sim-wise, it's pretty straight forward and there's really no problem using that gauge. The fuel is burning, the light goes on, ok there's roughly that fuel quantity left. Done.

 

But I'd like to know if there's a specific known structural fuel system schematic for the Su-27S?

Or if anyone could confirm there's a tank 5? (or what it means) (I'm curious)

 

And if you have the exact value for the fuel quantity left for each warning lights, please do share :thumbup: (values added above)

 

Any detail would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[WildBillKelsoe]

this thread is mint!

[bouncerj21]

Hi

Forgive me if I have missed it but where is the target lock button on the real controls ?

Thanks

[Esac_mirmidon]

In the throttle, a white button labelled BBOD

[bouncerj21]

Thank you. I must be going blind still can't locate the button

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Zabuzard]

Its this one:

 

 

 

 

ВВОД translates to "Input" or "Enter".

Edited February 12, 2018 by Zabuza

[bouncerj21]

Perfect thanks

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Baz000]

what do all the rest of the buttons on the throttle do? While we're on the subject

[bouncerj21]

Its back near the top of the thread. I just wasn't aware that enter = target lock

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Flow]

Amazing thread ! So much knowledge in here. Thank you for taking the time to share it with the community.

[Baz000]

whats the button without the red square above unlock do?

[bouncerj21]

[Alfa]

They are not buttons, but the "pins" actuated by the AB release paddles.

 

There are stops on the throttle rail preventing the handles from being moved into idle as well as AB regime - the paddle switches at front(in the photo) unlock the AB stops, while there are two smaller paddles at the back of the handles for idle unlock.

[Dudikoff]

One thing that has always bugged me was the IRST on/off switch; since the actual aircraft have the OLS (IRST) and RLS (radar) options for BVR modes and I don't see any switch to actually activate the IRST, I believe it should be removed.

 

If there is indeed no IRST on/off switch (?), then it would make more sense IMHO if the BVR mode key (i.e. "2") would toggle between OLS (where the IRST would be activated automatically) and RLS (where the IRST would be deactivated automatically) BVR modes. This would be in-line with the close-air-combat modes where the IRST is automatically activated AFAIK. Currently the IRST can be switched off in CAC modes, but I don't see why (and how?) that would ever be done.

 

Of course, if there actually is an IRST control switch, then please disregard the post and I'd appreciate if someone would point out its location to me :)

[Esac_mirmidon]

I think you are confused.

 

The OLS is the IRST. To use the OLS-IRST as the primary sensor you must turn the knob to the OLS position. In that position the OLS is "active" ( better said is a passive system ) and is used by the Weapons Control System as the primary sensor to detect targets.

 

So you dont need any IRST switch, the pilot selects the primary sensor, OLS or RLS, thats all. ( and a very long interaction list between both depending what sensor is the primary one )

[Bourrinopathe]

I think Dudikoff makes a good point and refers to the OLS/IRST switch in the simulator (controls configuration).

As we don't have an actual mode selector like the real one, it's probably a quick solution implemented by ED at the time when Flaming Cliffs was developed.

Therefore the sensor selection method we have in the current module is not correct (compared to the real one).

Maybe there's a way do modify the lua configuration to get a mode selection closer to reality?

 

 

Also check Stealth HR's post for reference.

 

----

 

As the notification brought me here, I've just spent a few minutes to update the Engines Mode texture tweak for the latest cockpit texture.

The original texture for the Su-27 has been slightly updated since the PBR implementation (or earlier).

If anyone's interested:

 

su27_cpt_panel03.zip

 

It still adds the labels to this toggle switch:

 

I'd suggest using OvGME and checking the correct path as it's slightly different from the previous version.

(…\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Flaming Cliffs\Cockpit\Textures\SU-27S-CPT-TEXTURES.zip)

Edited August 14, 2018 by Bourrinopathe

[Dudikoff]

I think you are confused.

 

The OLS is the IRST. To use the OLS-IRST as the primary sensor you must turn the knob to the OLS position. In that position the OLS is "active" ( better said is a passive system ) and is used by the Weapons Control System as the primary sensor to detect targets.

 

So you dont need any IRST switch, the pilot selects the primary sensor, OLS or RLS, thats all. ( and a very long interaction list between both depending what sensor is the primary one )

 

Perhaps you didn't read my post at all as the game DOES include and use an IRST switch (i.e. "O" key) and you seem to be making the same point I was trying to make (i.e. that setting the WCS selector to OLS position probably activates the IRST as the primary sensor in a real airplane as there's no separate switch for it).

 

The problem in the game with the current implementation is that once in BVR radar mode (i.e. "2" + "I"), if you press the IRST switch ("O"), it will switch to OLS mode *AND* deactivate the radar which actually has the activation switch on the console (as if you switch "O" again, it would switch off the IRST, but the radar would remain off so you'd have to switch it on again with "I").

 

This creates a problem if you use a 2 way switch on e.g. Warthog Throttle to activate the radar illumination. I presume this is not how it works in the real airplane and if you set the WCS mode to OLS, the IRST will be used, even though the radar illumination is still active (as both can coexist in some CAC modes).

 

So, to reiterate, instead of having to play with states and scripts in TARGET, it would be nice if ED would actually implement that BVR mode functions as a switch between OLS (activates the IRST, but *doesn't* deactivate the radar) and RLS (deactivates the IRST in BVR activated with the first press) primary modes (which would also be useful to e.g. Virpil T-50 Throttle owners which has a rotary mode selector switch; I also used the Saitek flight panel rotary selector for that purpose before). Also, by removing the IRST switch in general, the probably incorrect possibility to deactivate the IRST in close-air-combat modes would also disappear.

 

It should be an easy correction.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Dudikoff

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thats the limitations of a non clickable cockpit.

 

In a full modeled Su-27 im sure the WCS main modes knob should work as the real one with all the interactions between the OLS and the RLS. But at FC level we have "functions" on-off. Thats all.

 

I hope in the future maybe this will change.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Esac_mirmidon

[Dudikoff]

Thats the limitations of a non clickable cockpit. In a full modeled Su-27 im sure the WCS main modes knob should work as the real one with all the interactions between the OLS and the RLS. But at FC level we have "functions" on-off. Thats all.

 

I disagree as they use the NAV mode control ("1") to toggle between different sub-modes of navigation so they can do the same here instead of having this fake IRST on/off key which introduces issues as described before (mainly, inconsistent radar disabling behaviour between BVR and CAC modes and allowing to disable IRST in CAC modes).

 

Alternatively, they could also have a single BVR mode, but if the radar is switched on, then RLS mode would be selected and if it is off, then BVR mode could automatically switch to OLS. In this case, we would lose the HUD screen showing the BVR mode with the radar off, but i'm not sure if it serves any purpose anyway. I'd prefer the first option, though.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Dudikoff

[Esac_mirmidon]

If you read all the interactions between OLS and RLS depending what is the primary sensor at any given time you will discover the on - off issue you are talking about is the last of your problems.

 

Sure its possible to model the use of the WCS in a better way but at FC level there are so many things missing completely that this is only a very minor issue.

[Dudikoff]

If you read all the interactions between OLS and RLS depending what is the primary sensor at any given time you will discover the on - off issue you are talking about is the last of your problems.

 

Sure its possible to model the use of the WCS in a better way but at FC level there are so many things missing completely that this is only a very minor issue.

 

I'm not familiar with all the interactions in the real plane, but we don't have a full DCS module here.

 

But, even in the simplified form, it is blatantly obvious that there is no IRST button in the cockpit and the current implementation is pretty obviously unrealistic. A lot of things have been modified on these Soviet planes (e.g. disabling the tactical function on the MiG-29 display) since the initial Lock On release so why not bring it another step further and remove the IRST switch as well?

 

Furthermore, it also creates practical problems for me while programming my HOTAS, hence the purpose of my post.

 

So, for you it might be a minor issue not worth mentioning, but please allow for the theoretical possibility that it might be a bigger issue for some other users.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Dudikoff

[Esac_mirmidon]

Im not denying the issue.

 

I've just said i hope for a better WCS interaction but, again, at FC level there are so many things missing that this is only a marginal issue. Of course in my oppinion.

 

The main interaction features are not modelled even so beeing able to manipulate the WCS knob like the real one makes no difference because in FC level is only a sensor on - off.

 

Yes, It should solve some of your problems but It will not add real features to the WCS logic.

[Alfa]

I think you are confused.

 

The OLS is the IRST. To use the OLS-IRST as the primary sensor you must turn the knob to the OLS position. In that position the OLS is "active" ( better said is a passive system ) and is used by the Weapons Control System as the primary sensor to detect targets.

 

So you dont need any IRST switch, the pilot selects the primary sensor, OLS or RLS, thats all. ( and a very long interaction list between both depending what sensor is the primary one )

 

Just to be clear - the selector knob positions "OLS" and "RLS" do not activate EOS or Radar as a general sensor selection, but activate two specific BVR modes(one using the EOS for the R-27ET and the other the radar for the R-27ER).

 

The display symbology in these is completely different(see attachement) and as far as I can tell(could be wrong), there is no ability to use EOS/Radar in combination in either of these.

 

BTW - does DCS even simulate the EOS BVR mode(with the large -> small search area boxes)?

 

I am seriously out of the loop, so maybe I have missed something, but last time I checked EOS was only simulated(display symbology) for the close combat modes("OPT" and "Vert").