bluepilot76

Actually thats not what is significant. You could turn the HUD off. What is significant to this discussion is that the FD mode allows the pilot unimpeded access to the helicopter. The positional stabilisation provided by the AP is absent. I understand that the AP mode is good for holding a course or a regular turn or a spatial position, I understand that that can be a useful aid. but I also understand that AP can also be a barrier between the aircraft and the pilot. At times the pilots NEEDS to be 100% in control of the aircraft. Like at an airshow display or a dogfight. When we fly A10C, are we impeded by NOT having the autopilot on all the time? No. Are we helped by having the SAS on all the time? Yes! This is the same. FD is like SAS, makes the helicopter easier to fly. AP is an extra layer on top it allows the aircraft to fly predictably whilst you are eating your sandwiches. But if you are not eating your sandwiches and are actually showing off to your girlfriend then you probably want to be the one flying the machine. Thanks for the track Viper I will check it out later. Got another 8 hours at work first. I see significance in that you state the Trim was not touched. This would have the effect of reducing the annoying aspects of the AP from the routine. Unfortunately the general consensus on here seems to be that you should trim trim and trim again, no matter what you are doing. And definately not to hold the trimmer down, which is actually what a lot of people are doing in order to escape the annoying stabilisation aspect of the AP (and I do not mean annoying full stop, just in certain situations)

Im sorry GG, I can tell I am getting on your nerves and it must be annoying to have a beginner come on here and say this doesnt seem right. I am just trying to think logically, and outside of the box. It is an unfortunate trait of mine...I want to understand why using the AP is the accepted norm, I promise I am not trying to be a pest! Bear with me; An AP is supposed to assist a pilot. Having a spacial-reference-position-hold-stabilisation-system (or whatever..the KA 50 mode AP) is not going to help a pilot perform airshow aerobatic manoevres. It is EASY, even for me- a mere beginner! to perform manoevres like that if I am in FD mode. I tried it in AP and could not do them. It makes sense to use FD; the damping functions are there, but not the position hold functions. WHY would you choose the AP function over the FD function in this situation. People keep saying to use AP its better, but nobody has given me a reason why yet. Meanwhile there seems to be a major issue going on on this forum because people are getting trim bumps because they are flying manoevres with the AP engaged. Of course there is; the helictoper is trying to do its own thing. It "thought" you wanted to fly in a certain trajectory, but you are pulling it away from that. Try it with FD I promise its easier! If you have a chance, and are not totally bored of this topic, could you please post a couple of tracks. One doing these airshow manoevres with the AP engaged, One using FD. Show me the advantages of one over the other..Try and replicate the airshow part of the YT video. As for the missing FD symbology, I would be very VERY surprised if you cannot turn that off. DCS is good, but its not perfect.

Are you definately copying the Key and not the order number or something which is also a long key-like figure? I nearly did that. I also just instaled straight over BS1 without reverting to v1 and it seems to be running ok.

Loads will sayto buy a TM warthog, because their amazing etc, then some are going to say X52 because the Thrustmaster is all bling and too much and unreliable and X52 will get the job done, then the real hardcore old school sim guys are going to say get a CH thing because they last forever and it doesnt matter that they look like there off a nuclear submarine or something. Probably everyone is right so pick your budget. my oipinion which I seem to be in a minority of 1 about... Thrustmaster T16000m, costs 30 quid or something, has same Hall sensor (the important bit) as warthog, enough buttons to do everything you need, wont take up your entire house. Most important, and 99% will agree is get a Track IR, but then a loud minority will say to get a free version that we will then decide is actually pretty clunky, low resolution and will slow you sim down. Thats my 2p

Good morning. Watching that Kamov KA50 (cockpit view, real) on You Tube it looks to me like the pilot changes from AP to FD at about 2.42 - there is a wobble - possibly where he swaps hands to change the switch, he then starts to trim for speed rather than course. His last trim is just before he says something (love to know what) and at that point he has trimmed for a stabilsed hover. Through the whole of the aerobatic sequence there is no trimming. No way is he using AP through this in my opinion.

Yes

OK, Im going to stop buggin everyone about this, time to go and get some airtime and maybe read that good post I was told about earlier, just a tiny point before I bug out, because I know that everyone of the experts agrees that frequent trimming is good trimming, as it is in real life. Whilst flying in FD I was trimming LOTS. I just mention this because it sounds from your post that you think I am not trimming. I dont advocate that at all! Oh, I add the track I recorded of my experiments with the two modes this morning, just in case it is interesting to anyone. You can see I am checking the mode and then flying various manoevres to see whats happening. During this flight the penny dropped for me. Thats the end of my 12 hour shift, now Im glad to go get back in the Shark to try the second mission in the medevev campaign! Wish me luck! Thanks everyone for the useful input. I will be rereading a lot to make most use of the advice! FD AP testing.trk

I am sure your right. I am sure I will improve. I just struggle to see why AP seems to be the most popular mode. How it seems to me just now (no doubt this will develop as I learn) that there are two types of flying that one might generally partake in, in the KA50, and there are 2 modes of control. (1) flying legs, or gentle and stable orbits. e.g. either in transit or on targetting runs. In this case AP is most suitable. Allows heads down activities. (2) Nap of the earth / aerobatic /evasive manoevres / dogfights. In this case FD is most suitable. Previously whenever I tried to do (2) I was not in FD because to me FD sounds like it is supposed to be for (1). Then I could feel the AP interfering and didnt like it, or in extreme case all the blades would fall off. Its just a relief to fly the thing in FD now. More like what Im used to as Im mostly a A10 guy. I think a lot of people have had problems with this aspect of the shark and wonder if more would be enjoying better it if they used the FD mode. Incidently when I first got BS1, I remember totally struggling and looking for help on the internet. I remember reading an article (sim HQ I think) where the author had also struggled and reccomended taking off, setting the trim for hover at 50 feet or something, then flying round the whole mission never touching the trim again so that when needed he/she could let go of the controls to easily attain a new hover! wow what a way to carry on! And I was thinking, thats a good idea, that must be the key, because I sure as hell wasnt having a lot of success with my methods!

Hey GGTharos, Thanks for the tip! At the moment I am like a spring lamb in the field, bouncing around enjoying my new toy. Maybe one day I will grow up and use the horrible AP. But not yet! I just hate the feeling of the AP pulling me away from the manoevres I am flying. In IL2 terms (long time since I been there...) FD on = Spitfire AP on = Spitfire with massive hole in one wing.

Hey Speed, Im obviously a bit of an amateur to the Shark. But just a thought on this; If you hold down the button, presumeably there is no trim on the control, Pilot would be feeling unassisted controls. In FDAP mode, using the trimmer, there is feedback. for example I trimmed it for 250 and was manoevering at that speed, but then I did some serious slowing down without retrimming. It was apparent that my stick was now near the end of its travel and it required retrimming for the new slower speed. Presumeably the RL KA50 pilot would have been feeling some serious pressure on the control to hold the stick that far off trim. Whether its changed sionce BS1, I dont know. I do know I can now fly the sucker, but obviously thats because prior to now I was using AP not FD so the damn thing kept trying to fight back to the previously trim button trajectory. Didnt think you would be in the Shark, must seem very low to you!

Has there been some sort of major patch that I dont know about? Thanks again ED. I love the sim (most of the time). I would smiley. But Im not a smiley person.

Hi Luigi, thanks for the link to that, I look forward to reading it properly. Hopefully only the 1st post will suffice as its an 11 page thread. If I was designing the shark I would get rid of all these FD route visualisations from the FD mode, and just let it be a freeflight, smooth, no worries aerobatic mode, and put all those route following functions onto the AP mode. Anyway presumeably once I read that thread I will discover there is actually a really good reason for it to be the way it is. I wish it had been in big bold letters on the HUD: Beginner ? TURN THE DAMN FD ON! Its not what you think!

BEsides you can actually move around a fair amount without disconnect. I think of a cubic box about 1.5m sides that you can keep the receptacle in. For real military pilot that is not a big deal.

All through my flying training it was impressed upon me not to fly with the trimmer (except if their was a locked elevator, but thats an emergency) I suppose it was an analogue control though so you could use the tiniest amount to relieve a tiny pressure. I bet the one in the Real A10 is not analogue though - its still a blip switch on the CC isnt it? Anyway you could AAR successfully even if you are not trimmed. The control column is your primary control, you can hold the aircraft just whereever you want it. Some people even reccomend flying off trim so that you will diverge if you lose concentration. Same with low flying. Sorry I cant help you reprogram the sim but perhaps you just need to setup your joystick curves a bit nicer or buy a slightly better stick.

Good knowledge - thanks for your input. I have been confused by the term "Flight Director" in this instance. To me, a "Flight Director" is a system usually used to control a flight path through visual cues to the pilot or to the autopilot system. With FD "on" in Ka50 it actually frees up the controls for the pilot to manoevre the helicopter without any predetermined flight path. It actually seems the free-est method of flying the machine, apart from turning off the Pitch/Roll/Heading channels which is not reccomended. Now that I have realised the difference I find KA50 much more enjoyable to fly! I will only use the FD "Off" if I am in transit somewhere and need to setup the cockpit for the next phase.

I now see why I have never really been able to fly this beast safely in the past: The APFD switch operates in the opposite sense to how I expected.... Why does the BS attempt to follow a trajectory when the APFD switch is not selected- ie it is unlit. If you release the controls the helicopter will slowly turn back to the trajectory it was when you last pressed the trim button. When the APFD switch is lit, the trimming simply operates to release continuous pressure off the controls and is (to me) much more intuitive. Completely gone are the sensations of fighting against the AP system. So why is the APFD switch operating when the switch is not lit, and not when the switch is lit which would indicate “on”- as it does for the roll / pitch/ hdg channel selectors to its side. Could this be why so many people struggle to control this machine? Could this be why some people have developed the habit of holding the trim button through complicated maneuvers? If you are fighting the flight director the temptation is to hold the trimmer. In my case I developed the habit of turning off the Rol/Pitch/Hdg channels and flying it the old fashioned way. The lighting logic seems incorrect to me.

OK, I got it, I am having fun. I have remembered what my main gripe was! Flying the damn beast. It seems alright , until you try and trim it, then it decides to fly back onto some course you forgot about when someone let loose on you. Put up the controls indicater, trimming in right rudder apparently. Was I ? Now everything's crossed. No wonder the blades keep chopping themselves off! It's a challenge and I do like them, so I will perceiver. Towards the end of my last KA50 stint I had developed the technique of turning off al the AP channels. Seemed more predictable to me. I felt in control at last, wrong apparently so trying to go with them on now. Not sure it's helping. Anyway the new shadows are nice. Haven't noticed a lot else but just trying to get a feel for the beast so no campaigns yet.

A bit of manual reading has revealed that turning off the AP channels is not quite the life /death or right/ wrong decision that has been described in the previous few posts! Page 10-3 says you can do it if you need to, but it is not the normal mode of operations, I guess Luigi and myself are steely eyed bold young chopper pilots. Hopefully we will come round with experience- and maybe live to be older (but less bolder).

OK thanks for nudging me in the right direction I will try and perceiver with those modes on. I must say I find the manoeuvrability much more satisfactory without them. From a stable hover at a reasonable altitude you can make the thing tumble like a dice, which is quite effective at dodging incoming.

Hi, I like to fly the helicopter with the roll/pitch/heading channels off. Is this normal? It seems easier to me because I can easily see the effects my inputs are having. in this mode do I still need to hold the trimmer through any manoeuvring? Sorry if the info is already in this thread, I got to page 25 but must sleep at some point! Thanks Bp76

Hi all, Just to say I haven't abandoned ship, just very busy with real life so I have only been able to read your posts, not get started with BS2, but I am looking forward to a nice rainy day so I can give it a good chance. I like the sound of the new campaign, and also chance to fly in familiar territory

Hi Guys thanks for the input,, by airplane - helicopter, I meant, well its not really a convetional helicopter is it, with its two discs and no tail rotor and it has two massive wings, so once its up to speed it starts to act a bit like an airoplane (right?) for example if your going fast and you pull up whilst dumping the collective, the beast will still climb like a homesick angel. At least that was my impression, I am rusty though I have been in the Hog. And istn there a bit of a conflict between the rotor and the aerodynamics, its pretty easy to get everything crossed and before you know it you ve knocked your rotors off! It can be frustrating because there seems very little warning tht your about to do it... Western Vs Eastern ergonomics, Yeah Im used to western ADI and ergonomic layout, which the AK50 doesnt seem to me. Thats how it is though and exactly how it should be modelled, just it might be a bit too much of a project for me to take on. Limited time etc. Don think I ever tried the English cockpit though, as that seemed like cheating. Maybe I shouldnt make life so difficult for myself ! I did have some good times in the KA50 though, but we fell out when the controls kept freezing after investing hours into a mission. Maybe I have got the trimming thing down wrong, but I am sure I was doing it right, that was one thing I did a bit of research on. 99% of the time I would be ok, just flying around going: point, click, release.... point,click,release....point,click,release. Then all of a sudden it would be ....point,click,release,controls locked, crash.I used two different controllers as well and am fairly confident that the 2nd one is ok. The mission that everything seemed to die off on was the one based around sochi-adler. To be honost Im not short of £20 at the moment and DCS certainly deserve it as far as Im concerned, so I will probably buy it and give it a go. At least now I know I can get help on the forum if I need it, back when I first used KA-50 I was not a forumite, so when I ran into these issues I kind of lost interest pretty quick.

I just put mine on low. I spend 6 months of the year on boats, and can count on one hand the number of times I have seen DCS water. Its not worth the performance hit so I keep it on low. I think the water in COD looks good. Ideally it would change with the weather too.

Hi Helo Jocks. I did mess around a bit in BS, untill A10 came along. I am wondering about getting BS2. Does it bring enough changes to BS to pull me out of the A10? My main gripes with BS were: 1) extremely annoying common death by some sort of control or trim freezes, 2) campaign missions fizzle out if you survive long enough- you can just go around mopping up because everyone stops for dinner or its Eastenders or something. 3) General discontent with wierd crossed airplane / helicopter flight dynamics, 4) too many missions being, fly to A, waste enemy at A1 with standoff, get bored, go in for close stuff and get shot down. Or killed by wierd trim freeze. 5) general confusion over Russian machinery, buttons, switches... I realise that it will still be a russian helicopter-plane thing and so should it remain. I am hoping that the other improvements will get me back into it?

Could be that I would have been as well, but I didnt really do much in 1109 as it was PMDG 737 time.