JunMcKill

Thanks Stuge, I will tell to 71st and paketa squads!

Agree with you that DCS needs to implement the 'accumulated damage' to all PFM and EFM models, at least until you change slot, or repair the aircraft. Usually in the official Tournaments, we try to keep things like RL, it's one life, is forbidden to change aircraft slot unless you have a windows crash or internet fail, if you have damage and return to base, you need to repáir the aircraft, not change slot, etc. With acumulated damage, pilots will not exploit their aircraft beyond real limits with no consecuences

Hellrequiem Mexico MIG-21

=EDP 71st=Rush Cuba MIG-21bis

Terrific test and idea!, could you make it please with the M2000C SARH missile? I will try to do something similar with the AIM-120C and the R-77 at 20KM

^ good test. the blacks are with chaff and the whites dont?

Terrific, great dynamics campaign, congratulations! EDP 71st

I did several tests a while ago with the IASGATG mod, and can tell you that launching the actual DCS missiles from 10k meters height and M0.9 the ER reached M4.5 to a non maneuvering target, the R-77 reached M3.99, and the others I tested were as the manufacturer say in their online page. Now, when it is against a maneuvering target, everything changes, because the DCS guidance algorithm changes the missile fight profile from the very launch, and in many cases they do not reach the given speed values.

It's not only to pull the 12G, but pull it with full bags and weapons, the weight attached to the wings, is another factor to take in account in any stress calculation.

Indeed, the S key and W (AoA) is a good example, now the SU-27 pilots know they can pull above the limits but at their own risk!, and depending of their load, fuel weight and speed. Besides, the SU-27 needs more changes in the damage model, for example, detaching the weapons when flying above certain speed limit with weapons in different pylons for too much time. 1. Ограничения по скорости в зависимости от варианта размещения ракет: − 1-2 – не более 1300 км/ч; − 3-7 – не более 1200 км/ч. 2. При любом варианте несимметричной подвески максимальная положительная перегрузка уменьшается на ΔПу=2, а выход на отрицательную перегрузку запрещается. 3. В варианте основной подвески (2хР-73Э на точках 7, 8 и 2хР-27ЭР1 (2хР-27Р1) на точках 1, 2) – без ограничений по скорости. 4. Во всех вариантах подвески могут применяться неполные боекомплекты ракет. 5. Допускаются варианты несимметричной подвески ракет, за исключением полной односторонней и вариантов с дисбалансом взлетной массы не более 450 кг. 6. На симметричных точках допускается подвеска только однотипных ракет. 7. Встроенная пушка применяется во всех вариантах с подвесным оружием и без него. 8. Для обучения и тренировки летного состава по применению боевых ракет типа Р-27 во всех режимах СУВ. за исключением режима φо для ракет с ТГС, используются учебно-тренировочные ракеты Р-27УТ, укомплектованные различными типами ГСН. Ракеты применяются в режимах: 470-1УТМ с РГC, 470-ЗУТМ с ТГС. Установка режима производится при наземной подготовке путем перестыковки разъема, расположенного в торцевой части ракеты. Готовность ракеты к повторной атаке обеспечивается автоматически через 1-2 минуты с момента сброса цели РЛПК. 9. В учебно-тренировочных полетах ракеты Р-73Э применять только с 5, 6 или 3, 4 точек подвески (для исключения разрушения остекления АНО). 10. Допускается попарная симметричная подвеска ракет Р-27ЭР1 и P-27P1 одновременно на разных парах точек. Rough translation: 1. Limitations on the speed, depending on the version of the deployment of missiles: - 1-2 - not more than 1300 km / h; - 3-7 - not more than 1200 km / h. 2. For any variant of asymmetrical suspension, the maximum positive overload is reduced by ΔPu = 2, and the output to negative overload is prohibited. 3. In the variant of the main suspension (2хР-73Э at points 7, 8 and 2хР-27ЭР1 (2хР-27Р1) at points 1, 2) - without speed limits. 4. In all variants of the suspension, incomplete ammunition sets of missiles can be used. 5. Versions of asymmetrical suspension of missiles are allowed, with the exception of full one-sided and variants with an unbalance of take-off mass not more than 450 kg. 6. At symmetrical points, suspension of only one type of missile is allowed. 7. Built-in gun is used in all versions with and without hanging weapons. 8. For training and training of flight personnel for the use of R-27 type combat missiles in all regimes of WMS. With the exception of the φο regime for missiles with TGS, training missiles R-27UT, equipped with various types of GOS, are used. The missiles are used in the following modes: 470-1UTM with RGC, 470-ZUTM with TGS. The mode is set during ground preparation by reconnecting the connector located in the end part of the rocket. The readiness of the missile to be re-attacked is provided automatically after 1-2 minutes from the moment of the reset of the target of the RLPK. 9. In training flights, the R-73E missiles should only be used with 5, 6 or 3, 4 suspension points (to eliminate the destruction of the ANO's glazing). 10. A pairwise symmetrical suspension of R-27ER1 and P-27P1 missiles is allowed simultaneously on different pairs of points.

You are right, my fault ( I laugh for everything IRL)! :pilotfly: I think the damage model for all FC3 aircraft should be addressed, because is simply like in other games is considered a buff, and consequently, can be exploited. Aside, that makes the F-15 more realistic, that's in the end, what we all want, isn' it?

In fact we did the video to prove this argument a while ago. - single player test (no lag possibility) - Full bags (checked in the cockpit zoom) - Full ordnance (all AIM-120C checked in zoom) - Fast stupids barrel rolls to reach more than 10Gs and overstress both wings in different directions (checked) :D

I was making a joke in the first statement sorry if you dont get it, and what I exposed are not fallacies at all, are well explained arguments with logic since the first post.

We already did GG, dont you remember? Enzel did a single player test with the F-15C making lots of barrel rolls with bags full and ordnance, in the test we reach 14.4Gs, the force should detach one bag, while the other smash the wing up! :D

Yeah! was amazing!

Yes and it is easier to win a chess game from the seat of the public! Next time subcribe in the event ACE! :D At the speed that came Pyro, Razer could never have reached the lead without that high G turn because he didnt turn in time!

Thanks to that SF_Razer pulled the F-15C in a lead pursuit encounter with another F-15C at very high speed, and killed with guns to Pyromaniac in the latest event! :D https://www.twitch.tv/videos/131133808?t=02h52m57s Watch at 02:52:23, 14.8G with bags!

I called "extra advantage" to not call it exploit, when you pull 14.8Gs in the DCS F-15C with bags and ordnance under the wings in a high energy dogfight, like the UCAV of the Stealth film!! :pilotfly:

I know and I apreciate your help. In fact if you recall, DarkFire did the maths a while ago either, about the weight that the wings, bolts and eveerthing attached to the wing have to sustain in a 14G barrel roll, from a video that a friend of mine did. The problem is that the F-15 PFM needs to be addressed, because in some way, people are (lets say) "taking extra advantage" of his superior flight model in events, while others are subjects to more realistics FM.

Let me remark that my post have no intention of compare with the Flanker model, ok?. I'm purely talking about the F-15 model and I dont prefer that the thread begins a SU-27 vs F-15 discussion. I dont ask to break the wings either, but at least the screws holding the tanks under the wing have a G limit. In some way like other models, the weapons, bags, etc, should be detached when the external forces reach a limit. In the future, the structural fatigue should be taken into account, for all models of course.

At least the damage model needs to be rectified in some areas, for example the more easier first, like detach the bags from the wings etc, and later, to fix the structural damage by time. Means, that if you pull in the same flight too many Gs several times, the wings will have a cumulative damage that will compromise them later.

In the last Red Flag I have been watching several combats with F-15s and I repeat what I posted months before, I really think it's impossible to make a turn in a F-15C with a peak of 14.2Gs with both wing bags and keep them attached to the structure, even if they are empty! Watch the twitch video at 2:52 how SF_Razer pulled 14.8Gs to shot down another F-15

Callsign : =EDP 71st= RuSH Nationality : Cuban Current location : Mexico Squadron name : EDP 71st Squadron website : http://dcslatino.forospanish.com/ NOT POSSIBLE TO PARTICIPATE IN GIVEN DATES :(

I agree with GGTHAROS, we should make more tests, in particular those using ECM like chaff, which russian missiles are particulary likely to follow!