JunMcKill

As I told before, we all love realism, and we all want that ED simulations be the best in the world! You can even add the loss of weapons in the SU-27 when the speed exceed for long time the hardpoint limits, but as many have posted, it's difficult to believe that a F-15 can keeps their wing bags attached above 12 or more Gs! But thanks for the info anyway!

I agree with you delta, what we are discussing, is that given the information we have, what really happens to every aircraft?, in this case SU-27 vs F-15 in extreme overload maneuvers, ED decided that the SU-27 will break apart the wings, while the F-15 not, I think this discussion would end if ED post the technical information that led them to make that decision on the Su-27. In the end, we are the customers, isn't it?

This is the second part of the chart (CFT/AIRCRAFT INTERFACE), there are a lot of chart with different configurations, but what usually people do is to dogfight from sea level to 10,000 feet, with full ordnance and center tank, which (looking the charts) is the most restrictive scenario in Gs and speed

Thanks, for what I see in your graph, never exceed the 9G limit, it's right? warning than some external config are more restrictive, and in the case of F-15C/D with the use of external tanks, could me more! This graph do not contradict the one posted by me before, only complements and is very easy to read the allowances of load vs Gs and speed at different high levels. But always they place a safe limit of 9Gs. Now what is the aircraft weight 100% fuel with CFT and 6 x AIM-120C and 2 x AIM-9? with that number you should analize in the graph and find the proper load factor.

Ok I get it, post please the structural limt chart, if you can

If I design a simulator usually base the design using the sustained charts (what is given to pilots to learn their aircraft and the technical info of it), not what a pilot told me o whatever, can you post any chart with the data you're talking about? any credible source as I did?. In this case the conversation is over, as usual ED do what they want to keep the F-15 above. As I told you is ok that the airctaft can reach above 9Gs, but the time that you pull above the structural limit should be considered during the flight of this plane until the player change the aircraft or crash, I leave you a part of a interview with Mark Williams in DESERT STORM campaign: Source: F-15 Eagle Engaged

Ok I dont get it? the graph say STRUCTURAL LIMIT, and you say that above the line in not structural limit, come on!

And this is the F-15 with 37,000 pounds gross weight. This one have the -220 engine. The problem is not the G limit per se, it's the information that every piloit should now about the limits of the airframe, ok if the F-15 can get higher loads for a limited time (seconds), but will have structural damage with time, and maybe a complete crash. Not like the current simulated in DCS where all are exploiting the limits all time without impact in the fuselage and wings. If you notice in the graph, any high G is limited to 1.05 mach maximum (sea level to 5,000 feets), means about 1.05Mach= 1286.296kph or lower

Now, this is for the F-15 with 35,000 pounds gross weight

This is the real configuration/speed allowed for the Su-27Sk in the harpoints, notice the speed allowed in each case, I think the F-15 should have a similar diagram in their manuals. 1. Restrictions in speed depending on the variant missiles accommodation: - 1-2 - not more than 1300 km / h; - 3-7 - no more than 1200 km / h. 2. In any variant asymmetric suspension maximum positive overload is reduced by ΔPu = 2, and the output of the negative overload is prohibited. 3. In the config, the primary suspension (2xR-73E on points 7, 8 and 2xR-27ER1 (2xR-27R1) at points 1, 2) - without speed limits. 4. In all cases the suspension can be applied incomplete Ammunition missiles. 5. Admitted options asymmetric suspension missiles, except for the full-sided and options imbalance takeoff weight of not more than 450 kg. 6. On symmetrical points allowed only the same type of suspension missiles. 7. Built-gun used in all variants with outboard weapon and without it. 8. ??? 9. The training flights missile R-73E Only use a 5, 6 or 3, 4 suspension points (to avoid the destruction of the suspension?). 10. Allowed the pairwise symmetric suspension of R-27ER1 and P-27P1 simultaneously on different pairs of points. Sorry for the translation, this is the original in russian: 1. Ограничения по скорости в зависимости от варианта размещения ракет: − 1-2 – не более 1300 км/ч; − 3-7 – не более 1200 км/ч. 2. При любом варианте несимметричной подвески максимальная положительная перегрузка уменьшается на ΔПу=2, а выход на отрицательную перегрузку запрещается. 3. В варианте основной подвески (2хР-73Э на точках 7, 8 и 2хР-27ЭР1 (2хР-27Р1) на точках 1, 2) – без ограничений по скорости. 4. Во всех вариантах подвески могут применяться неполные боекомплекты ракет. 5. Допускаются варианты несимметричной подвески ракет, за исключением полной односторонней и вариантов с дисбалансом взлетной массы не более 450 кг. 6. На симметричных точках допускается подвеска только однотипных ракет. 7. Встроенная пушка применяется во всех вариантах с подвесным оружием и без него. 8. Для обучения и тренировки летного состава по применению боевых ракет типа Р-27 во всех режимах СУВ. за исключением режима φо для ракет с ТГС, используются учебно-тренировочные ракеты Р-27УТ, укомплектованные различными типами ГСН. Ракеты применяются в режимах: 470-1УТМ с РГC, 470-ЗУТМ с ТГС. Установка режима производится при наземной подготовке путем перестыковки разъема, расположенного в торцевой части ракеты. Готовность ракеты к повторной атаке обеспечивается автоматически через 1-2 минуты с момента сброса цели РЛПК. 9. В учебно-тренировочных полетах ракеты Р-73Э применять только с 5, 6 или 3, 4 точек подвески (для исключения разрушения остекления АНО). 10. Допускается попарная симметричная подвеска ракет Р-27ЭР1 и P-27P1 одновременно на разных парах точек.

You're right, it's impossible to the current F-15, to make this turn at more than 1300 km/h and 17Gs, and keep the ordnance and tanks in their hardpoints attached, not to mention the wing and fuselage stress

Hope ED simulate the stick shake I have a G940! :pilotfly:

The SD is heavier (175 vs 190kg) and slightly bigger, but you're right, the deal is to update the current DCS R-77 model for the specifications online at least in speed and range! Of course the guidance and drag is bad in most of DCS missiles, but until we wait for the new guidance update, the drag repair in the R-77 would be really appreciated, will make the new MIG-29 3D model more ... flyable!! :pilotfly: The source is the manufacturer: http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/567/

I agree with this! hope they fix the guidance!

The information I posted is the old one, the new RVV-SD is this one: http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/567/ Performance: Launch range, km: maximum to the front semi-sphere up to 110 minimum to the rear semi-sphere 0,3 Flight altitudes of the targets being hit, km: 0,02 to 25 Launch weight, kg. max. 190 Overall dimensions, m: length 3,71 diameter 0,2 wing span 0,42 rudder span 0,68 Based in Russian Aviation, the one deployed in Syria is the old one (80km range), and already tested, if you can see, can intercept any target flying up to 3,600 km/h, it means that the R-77 can reach a speed of Match 4: http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/2/8/4963/ But in the second article is a mistake, they described the R-27ET with the data of the R-27ER, LOL!

There is not too much technical doc online about the RVV-AE, Wikipedia says a range of 80km for the standard R-77, it means about 50km of effective range FAS.ORG says 50km range The designer says this: Performance: Launch range, km: max, in front hemisphere 80 min, in rear hemisphere 0,3 Target engagement altitude, km 0,02-25 Warhead weight, kg 22,5 Launch weight, kg 175 Missile dimensions, m: length 3,6 body diameter 0,2 wing span 0,4 control plane span (in-flight position) 0,7 Ground-based Missile's performance: Engagement zone, km: range 1,2...12 altitude 0,02...9 course parameter 8

Maybe is more Expensive? or the russian have a lot of R-27ER in stock with no use? lot of answers! What I can tell you is that russian are not stupid to take their best aircraft with a bad missile in a war zone

I'm judging the R-77 perfomance in DCS indeed! slow speed too quick while in supersonic and transonic.

What I dont get it is, if the R-77 is so bad missile, why the newest Russian flighter have it in Syria? look at 00:54, in the second video in 00:38 riWPvlILTJA gpVEWipSx5k :)

if they were not, better not sell it

If you make it flyable is good for all!, if you make both will be a dream! Even with the SU-25T cockpit

The one modeled in that page is only for ground attack (SU-25T avionics), and was upgraded in February of this year.

You're right, and wait for the F-14 in the shelves too! WOW!, both will be best sellers from day one! Regards!

This is the mod of the year so far Yoda, thanks for your excelent work! We already used it and all the navigation issues with the rookies have gone! :)

Thanks is a good and logical answer! :thumbup: Anyway lets see if GGTharos find another explanation from the model designers. Thanks to both!