Shahdoh

I know you have a lot to tidy up with the code, but currently seeing all the individual a/c flying a bit too "loose". Maybe set closer and to specific distances that would change. This is the bases for most US WWII bomber formations though there were a good number of variations to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_box Need to be sure in the script, that if the lead is taken out, they revert to another lead or fly out on their own waypoints which need to mirror the lead a/c. The formation should not change, but just continue on with the loss of the lead.

Think bomber formations, where the strength of defense is sticking with the formation, not breaking away. Korea maybe was the starting point of breaking away from large bomber formations, but it still does an aircraft of that size no good to try and maneuver with a fighter.

When you bank over, are you pulling back on the cyclic for the turn? If so, you might be doing it to much, inducing the climb.

And then I will continue to do it manually. Sorry, you are the one that suggested code could be written to do this. If I had the knowledge or capability or time to, I would have done it already.

I have no idea where to even start for code like that.

Sounds interesting, anything to help reduce the tedious nature of it would be great.

I just posted my method for setting up formations here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2816174#post2816174

With more and more WWII fighters on the way, and the modding community providing some excellent bombers to utilize, I thought I would share how I have put large formations of bombers (so far up to 24) together where they will stay in formation for the entire flight even with turning waypoints. Now sometimes, the AI will drift out of position, but with this method, they will eventually get back into formation as long as their lead is still alive. Of course, sometimes during their maneuvering, they will hit another in the formation. and I will try to explain how to avoid those situations, but even under the best efforts, formation accidents can still happen. These accidents did occur in real life as well so, depending on how often this happens with your formations, whether you choose to accept it or try to fix it. To start off, if you are doing a WWII bomber formation, you want them to hold formation even under attack. To do so, you will need to turn off their reactions to threats and have no task as such: You can leave them on, but they will want to break formation and dog fight with the enemy. See this post for the scripting I use to get around that: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168153 I also suggest starting the formation in the air, trying to get all the AI into the air and into formation afterwards adds a TON of work to an already tedious process. Also a helpful tip is to set all your waypoints (with airspeeds and alts) for the lead before you start setting up your wingmen. I also recommend using CTRL C to copy it, click the cursor on the new location and then CTRL V to past a copy of the a/c in the new spot and all the speed/alt/waypoint and advanced waypoint options will be in place for you. So, we have our lead aircraft, now for the wingmen. You want to place the next aircraft close to the formation distance you have planned, but give them JUST a bit of wiggle room on the loose side. Here I am setting up a simple V formation with 2 wingmen, spacing as such: 100 feet back from lead, 225 feet off to the side and 25 feet below. These distances might seem a bit far, but the AI gets really nervous when put to close to another, Size of a/c in use has a lot to do with how close you can get them without them fidgeting all around. You can play around with these distances to get the desired formation and in how stable they will hold it. To do so, you use the Advanced Waypoint action: Perform Task: Follow on the wingman, then with that selected, you click on the lead a/c and you will see a yellow line connecting the 2. Once that is done, you set the X/Y/Z coordinates to set your distances; X = the forward / back distance from the lead (positive for forward, negative for back) Y = vertical difference from the lead (Positive is above, negative is below) Z = distance off to the side of lead (Positive is to the right, negative is to the left) Copy the first wingman and paste it into place for the 2nd. Change its name and you will see the follow is already set. Now, open up the Advanced waypoint option and change the X/Y/Z according to your prefered formation. For this, I only needed to change the Z value to a positive(I did the left one first, which had a negative value). And boom, I have a V formation of bombers ready to go. For additional a/c and larger formations, I recommend you keep them in elements, then have those separate element leads follow the main lead with the element wingmen following there element lead as such: Here, element leader is following the main formation lead: And here the element wingman is following the element lead: This does a couple things. First off, you will not have to calculate the distances of every a/c to the lead, only the element leaders, all your element wingman can maintain their same distances to their element lead. 2nd, if that lead becomes destroyed, then all a/c will be on their own and the formation will fall apart. This will hold it together better under adversity. Waypoints: Many things will affect how well the formation will stay together. How close they are, airspeeds and waypoint turn angles. You will want to keep the waypoint turn angles shallow or it will easily throw the AI out of position. I try to use turns of only 30-45 degrees at most. You will also want to set the waypoints of every a/c in the formation so the waypoint positions match the formation they are in. In my experience, the tighter they are to the actual positioning, the less fidgeting from the wingman (at least 1 of the many factors). I also try to setup the positioning as if it was halfway through the turn: Yes, this can be very tedious so I recommend keeping your waypoints as few and simple as possible, just enough to get the effect of in and out for your mission. Airspeed as mentioned before is also very important. Set it to fast and the wingman can not keep up with the lead. They need a margin of extra speed to maintain formation. Also, set it to slow and they will continually fly past the lead, especially if they are on the inside of a turn. They will do their best to maneuver and get back to position eventually, but the more they maneuver, the more likely they may hit another a/c in the formation. So, now you got them all flying around in a beautiful formation, what happens when the lead gets taken out? They will revert to their waypoints which will be the first one(if you started the formation right away) which is actually waypoint 0. To prevent this, you will need to setup another Advanced waypoint action: Perform Command: Switch Waypoint This needs to be applied to every wingman in the formation and will need to have multiples based on how well you want it to follow your waypoints if its leader is missing. Back to the less waypoints is better view. I usually try to setup Waypoint 1 as a straight in shot to the bombing location. Doing this I can then get away with just 2 switch waypoints per wingman. 1st one is to get them to the target, 2nd to get them home if their lead is destroyed after the target is bombed. To set this up, you will need to know the time to waypoints for each of the waypoints you will be switching to. At the very first waypoint of the wingman, add the Switch Waypoint and then click on: Condition and then check the: TIME MORE box and enter a value of the bombers start time and set the waypoint to Waypoint 1. This will keep the wingman from turning around and trying to start the waypoint route from 0. Then set the 2nd Switch Waypoint to go to the next desired waypoint and the time condition based off the waypoint time of the previous switch waypoint destination. Example, if time to Waypoint 1 was at 12:33:45 I would set my 2nd switch waypoint to point to waypoint 2 (or maybe even the last, just to get it home) and the condition time would be 12:33:50 (I like to pad the time 5-15 seconds to make sure it reached it). Is your head hurting yet? I know mine is trying to explain it all. But it is a great thing to see your formation fly to target, take fire from the enemy, turn and return back while maintaining the formation you set up for them. Good luck!

Cool, thanks, regarding those cockpit hits, have you been getting those from the rear? of so, that should not be possible either, though afraid the hit modeling might make it possible.

Good, was there any places where you reduced the values? Being to lazy to compare, but since you worked the file.... :music_whistling:

Exactly, I also am looking for more of the feel of what is possible, not the actual numbers, but trying to keep it "close" to real numbers. Right now, the Lua I gave you, with those damage numbers "feels" right for damage absorbtion and I can balance my campaign around that. I do not use the bombers defenses, instead my own scripting, which is nowhere realistic, but gives the feel of bombers able to defend themselves, and when in formation, their defense is even stronger. Also, I am balancing it versus real people, not AI fighters, and that also changes things.

I need to do more testing, I was just surprized someone said they got MORE B17s down with new model, unless I misunderstood them.

Will be putting up a post in the next day or so on how to setup large bomber formations that can turn at waypoints and stay in, or at least return to, formation. Here is a stress test of 24 B-17s contrailing. unfortunately, system crashed before turning at the waypoints, but can get a good idea of frame rate hits you might see. I normally get well over 120-150 fps with my 4.2Ghz system with a GTX980 card, 16G of ram. ***Twitch deleted the video *** With 24 bombers contrailing, I was getting 60-80 FPS. Decent still but obviously a load to the system.

Here ya go, put this in the Mission builder section a bit ago per request: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168153

And that is the Me 262 that we do not have yet.... and STILL leaves it in line with the proposed damage model of a single pilot able to take down 1-3 B-17s.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167940

More destroyed B17s? That should not be right. B17s were pretty tough and a single fighter should not be able to take out more then a couple. add 1 maybe 2 for the gameplay aspect. Will need to test it more myself otherwise will stick to my own settings. I did some research on the matter. Could not find anywhere of a single pilot claiming more then 1 B17 in a mission. Did it happen? maybe, but no definitive proof. Yes, other bombers have seen multiples destroyed by a single pilot, but they did not have the defensive capability or sheer toughness of the B17. As far as getting them to hold in formation when attacked, the only way is as I have already described. Turn off their offensive/defensive capabilities and script in the bombing and defense. May think it is unrealistic. To those that have flown my missions with it in place, feel it is a great solution. If you want a demonstration, will be glad to throw the mission up for anyone interested to see the effects in person. Just have to decide, which is more unrealistic, bombers breaking formation? Or not seeing tracers and bombs falling...

Great work! Expect to see this skin available on the Virtual Aerobatic server at the next mission update!

I understand that, but figured, since it takes a slot of a sort, that there might be some kind of group ID (internally set) to communicate with.

So, the Game Master does not have a group ID to use then?

Looking for how to setup custom radio commands so that only the gamemaster can see/utilize. Thank you.

Im in Arizona, so MST. I am on the TS for about another hour (till 4pm MST).

That is not a website address, it is a Teamspeak address. Teamspeak is a voice over the net program available for free here: http://www.teamspeak3.com/teamspeak-download.php

Again, starting at 3PM eastern, will be starting a demo mission of the campaign. Will start the missions every hour unless the prior mission is still busy.

JSGME is the best way to deal with mods. Check out this link:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98607&highlight=JSGME+tutorial If you still need help, find me on the Virtual Aerobatic Teamspeak: ts3.virtual-aerobatics.com and will help you get it set up and answer any questions.