DB 605

This is of course possible.

Of course, i know. But that time tested IRL was without using rudder, hence i did same thing. Here's quote from the article:" Roll performance is similar to a Hurricane or elliptical wing tipped Spitfire. A full stick roll through 360 degrees at 460kph takes 4 to 4.5 seconds without using rudder, and needs a force of around 20 lbf. One interesting characteristic is that rolls at lower speeds entered at less than 1g, such as a roll-off-the-top or half Cuban, have a markedly lower roll rate to the right than to the left. Therefore, I always roll left in such manoeuvres." Another interesting quotes: "The Bf109G is heavy to manoeuvre in pitch, being similar to a Mustang." "The roll rate is very good and very positive below about 250 mph. Above 250 mph however the roll starts to heavy up and up to 300 or so is very similar to a P-51. After that it's all getting pretty solid and you need two hands on the stick for any meaningfull roll rates. Pitch is also delighful at 250 mph and below. It feels very positve and the amount of effort on the control column needed to produce the relevant nose movement seems exactly right to me. The aircraft is perfectly happy carrying out low-level looping maneuvers from 300 mph and below. Above 300 mph one peculiarity is a slight nose down trim change as you accelerate. The rudder is effective and if medium feel up to 300. It becomes heavier above this speed but regardless the lack of rudder trim is not a problem for the type of operations we carry out with the aeroplane." - Mark Hanna of the Old Flying Machine Company flying the OFMC Messerschmitt Bf 109 G (Spanish version). As control forces are currently modelled to pitch for 109 only, it may mean some surprises to Mustang pilots in future too...

Well yeah, he's already close to sixty so...:)

Well, i just tested 109 first time after patch and i must say i have mixed feelings of it. While it is clearly step to right direction, i personally feel that it's bit overdone as it is now. 109 now have that "rubbery" feeling at all speeds. It doesen't feel "sharp" and "delightful to manouver" at lower speeds (quotes from real pilot articles) anymore as it was before. I also did few 360 degree rolls at 400km/h and 450km/ at around 500m height, it now takes 5-6 secs without rudder while time in reality should be closer to 4,5 sec according to Dave Soutwood test flying with Black 6 (Bf 109G-2/trop). But hopefully this is just because it's the fist take on control forces and they will be tuned for closer to reality in future...

Great job, will watch later. Thank you guys!

It's already applied to fw 190 and p51 too. Fly around 700km/h for example and do barrel rool and you'll see. And as YoYo said, rudder will be affected too once they'll find proper values to it.

Here's vid of my old man actual under bridge flying (1:50). Not 109 tought... :)

Very nice looking bird, many thanks for another great skin!

Yes...it actually happened sometimes: " After landing Me 109 with damaged rudder trim tab, which shook the rudder heavily in flight: "Antti Tani: It had to be strong, both the rudder and the pedals, they withstood the damn shaking without any further damage. Jussi Huotari: The Messerschmitt was a very tough aircraft. You could do vertical dives and the tailplane hang along..." Antti Tani: But Mäittälä, what happened to him, he lost the tailplane? Mäittälä dived like that, and being a strong man he was able to pull harder than I did. And so the tailplane was ripped off - The day before a similar dive and recovery had happened to the same plane. Two steep dives in succession and a strong pilot pulling the stick each time, so... Antti Tani: It certainly was a risky job. It must be that I remember him because I did a dive like that and remembered his tailplane had been ripped off. I, too pulled as hard as I could, because I thought that I am going to die if I don't." - Antti Tani, Finnish fighter ace. 21,5 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association. - Jouko "Jussi" Huotari, Finnish fighter ace. 17 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association." But i have to agree with those who doesen't want slider there. Pretty much everyone would use strongest pilot and it would not make sense anymore. Can't comment further about stick forces because i've not tested it yet, sounds good thought.

Sorry but this Kit Carson article is nothing else than bad joke. IIRC he did not even flown 109 by himself.

Exactly what finnish G6 manual says as well.

Okay then, what was inappropriate in first #5 posts of this topic? If it's my post, then i don't know what to say, but that how i was felt. Because in very first public version control loads seemed to be there (as you see i'm not the only one who noticed it) and then after update i was gone, so i felt FM gets worse from this part.

With all respect about "language barrier crap". There is lots of non-native english speakers, including me, and sometimes i have to read posts few times to understand them correctly. And it's sometimes hard to write something in correct way, because of language barrier. It's definitely there for us non-natives. And you understood me wrong way, thinking that i meant Yo-Yo, because i could not explain it clear enough. Because of language barrier. :)

Ok, thanks for letting me know, i really did not know that. Agreed, and that's actually what i have wrote also on some topics. But as you see, it's not clear for everyone. I can definitely understand your frustration! Well, me neither. That was actually my point at first, to make things clearer for everyone to avoid this kind of unnecessary debates. As i was not aware of you don't know our game versions.

Yeah i can understand that but if you look start of this topic it was quite no-nonsense in my opinion.

This is what i have wrote in couple of other topics too - try mustang and fw in higher speed and you'll see. But i don't understand why YO-YO or someone else from inside could not just say "guys, it's not yet implemented to K4" instead of asking what is wrong in current version? That way this kind of topics would be needless and there would be much less uncertainty and speculation. Maybe it's because "language barrier" leads to misunderstandings or maybe YO-YO is just having fun with our expense :)

Sorry but i think you are exaggerating a bit here. This old "no more than 5g's over 550km/h" is probably from that one well known british test flight with E-model, therefore not sutable with G or k models. Also, it was possible to recover even higher speed dives than 750km/h with using only stick, it was not easy tought and takes lots of altitude. Kyösti Karhila's experience with G6: "The maximum speed not to be exceeded was 750kmh. Once I was flying above Helsinki as I received a report of Russkies in the South. There was a big Cumulus cloud on my way there but I decided to fly right through. I centered the controls and then something extraordinary happened. I must have involuntarily entered into half-roll and dive. The planes had individual handling characteristics; even though I held the turning indicator in the middle, the plane kept going faster and faster, I pulled the stick, yet the plane went into an ever steeper dive. In the same time she started rotating, and I came out of the cloud with less than one kilometer of altitude. I started pulling the stick, nothing happened, I checked the speed, it was about 850kmh. I tried to recover the plane but the stick was as if locked and nothing happened. I broke into a sweat of agony: now I am going into the sea and cannot help it. I pulled with both hands, groaning and by and by she started recovering, she recovered more, I pulled and pulled, but the surface of the sea approached, I thought I was going to crash. I kept pulling until I saw that I had survived. The distance between me and the sea may have been five meters. I pulled up and found myself on the coast of Estonia. If I in that situation had used the vertical trim the wings would have been broken off. A minimal trim movement has a strong effect on wings when the speed limit has been exceded. I had 100kmh overspeed! It was out of all limits. The Messerschmitt's wings were fastened with two bolts. When I saw the construction I had thought that they are strong enough but in this case I was thinking, when are they going to break - What about the phenomenon called "buffeting" or vibration, was there any? No, I did not encounter it even in the 850kmh speed." - Kyösti Karhila, Finnish fighter ace. 32 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association.

Actually there is no flettner tabs in DCS K4, because it use G-model ailerons like probably most of K4's did in real life too.

Now i'm getting bit worried. Do you think they are fine as they are now? Didn't you wrote about looking them later? It's way too easy to recover deep fast dive as it now, compared to what i've read many times from reports and memoirs. Now we can recover easily from 850+km/h dive only using stick and we can pull exessive amounts of G's at those speeds too. Barrel roll takes less than 4 seconds at 750km/h etc.

G10 looks awesome, many thanks!

Nice one :thumbup: It's been quite silent here in skins section lately, good to see some new projects are still going on.

Yes, that was very strange. At my very first test flights i tought they got FM almost perfect in their first try, then couple days later it was changed to worse in this case. I actually started topic about this in bugs section back then but got no answer. Hopefully it will get better again in next update.

Greatness, thank you!

Thanks a lot, very nice job! :thumbup:

Guys, stickforces/controls stiffening is already simulated to both P-51 and D9. Fly over 700km/h and do some barrel rolls for example and you will notice it. And Yo-Yo is already confirmed that it will be simulated in k4 too of course, wich was know to be much harder in fast speed than both 'stang and Dora. Don't forget it's still beta.