WinterH

A few months ago this was, again, reversed. As far as I know, the latest is, we are still getting Blackshark 3, with Iglas, missile warning system, new external 3d, but no DIRCM system as originally planned. I believe new 3d model is visible in the opening of recent 2022 and beyond video.

Do take a look at this mod: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3315543/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3315544/ It's in two parts, but I've found it to be pretty nice, did use it with a friend for a while to fly the A-4 from and didn't have issues. It's not a USN carrier, yes, but a set of small carriers that nicely represent A-4's home in Australian, Argentinian, and Brasilian services.

ARN-101 upgraded ones, I would say, are significantly different from Vietnam birds. However, pre-ARN-101 Block 53 should be post Vietnam enough for people like me, and could be fitted into a Vietnam era bird role for people like you. So I guess it is the "happy medium" as far as F-4E versions go. It would have Mavericks, Shrikes, Paveway LGBs, GBU-8 (but sadly not GBU-15), and Pave Spike daytime only TGP, as well as all air force Sidewinders from 70s to mostly likely all aspect 80s missiles. Like Northstar98 said, ARN-101 replaces old analog navigation and bombing computers with a new digital unit. So feels like it would indeed significantly alter the experience and capabilities. As for Vietnam birds vs post-Vietnam birds in general, I'm of the mind strictly leaning towards post-Vietnam is the right choice for DCS as it is. later 70s-80s is a great era to fill up, and there are a lot of existing and upcoming stuff from that period, and in a pinch they can even serve as underdogs in 90s scenarios with appropriate support. Vietnam war is a very interesting period, yes, but I don't see DCS having nearly enough stuff to properly support it at this point. But then, I also understand the argument that for that support to happen, they need to start somewhere. I still see it that any thing that is made in strictly Vietnam level is a loss where we could get the later version instead which would, in my opinion, add more to the sim as it is. I think "a version that fits both to Vietnam, and a post-Vietnam environment" is even more difficult for naval Phantoms right? Did they have a look-down radar already in the war? All these discussions make me realize one thing... F-4 is very much a prime candidate for a A-10C II or Blackshark 3 kinda treatment some years down the line.

Oh, I for one, would love that so much, been wanting them in DCS since forever! Besides, an emil would be a decent playmate for I-16 too.

You really seem to be out of date These days A-4E mod has mostly (perhaps fully?) working radio, can do aerial refueling, and has a pretty nice custom EFM flight model. For me personally it's more of a free module than a mod at this point to be honest. Edit: oh and also make sure checking out the bombing computer after updating (weapon mode to CMPTR position, select slick bombs, radar in AG mode, sight zero degrees depression, put the sight on your intented target, press and hold pickle, computer will release the bombs at the right moment to hit, you can also pull up to level flight as you hold the pickle)

I'm pretty sure F-4 we get will most likely be a later 70s or maybe even an 80s bird. Only the earliest F-4s had an IRST, which as far as I know didn't prove to be much good, and quickly made away with in following versions. That said, upcoming F-8 and MiG-23MLA should both have IRST sensors as far as I know. As for the topic of this thread, Heatblur already gives us a module with F-14B, F-14A early and late, and a very early Iranian F-14A. That's 4 variants already. I'd much rather see them make different aircraft. Much, much later down the line after they give us multiple new airframes, and if relevant information became available, then maybe why not. Rather than seeing more and newer F-14s, I'd love to see multiple different F-4 variants for example. Or perhaps to see them tackle a Soviet era bird like Su-17 or MiG-27. Or Draken, Jaguar, etc.

F-104, F-105. Also I think it's not entirely clear from just the pipper whether it'd be F-4E or other variants. Pretty safe bet that it was teasing the phantom and not the other two though.

I know, but I still feel like Q1, which is 3 months mind you. Wags doesn't show every module as far as I can recall, at least when it comes to 3rd party ones.

I do personally think it will be Q1 '22.

It was removed intentionally as this variant apparently didn't have that ability IRL. Need to use differential braking now.

Just want to say that I've been having this since 2.7 came with Nvidia DSR too. I'm stuck with a craptacular old 1440x900 monitor, but was using the sim in 1920x1200 with DSR prior to 2.7 just fine. Since then, regardless of full screen or not, DSR won't work anymore.

That would, of course, be entirely counter-productive Which isn't the point being argued. Point is, a post-Vietnam F-4E can fit into a lot more potential scenarios, threat levels, types of operations, a certain period of coming of age in multirole aircraft tech, while still being ostensibly able to play the part of an older one with a few restrictions. It had the same radar and defensive bits as far as I can tell. Depending on when exactly, even the engine can be the same.

Not at the cost of things that can better get existing assets together, and frankly is overall more interesting without really losing the ability to more or less stand in for earlier birds. Which isn't chronologically beyond Vietnam War anyway

*whacks with a shotgun* Also, DCS: Vietnam is just not a thing feasible for near future, however, many other things a later F-4E would fit, are. Besides A Block 53 F-4E with weapon restrictions really isn't far off from a Vietnam one if one really wants to roleplay that, an earlier one however, can't fit into anything beyond 'Nam itself.

I don't have F-16, but with HTS added now, it should be one of the best. F/A-18C: Up to 4 HARMs, you can use HARMs in 3 different modes, two of which allows targeting a specific type of radar. If the SAM site isn't far, you can still take a couple of cluster bombs for the DEAD part of the mission once the radars are taken care of. Though, on a properly defended SAM site that has SHORAD too, this would get hairy. JF-17: 4 anti radar missiles with 3 modes of operation, though arguably not as useful modes as Hornet's or HTS equipped F-16's. Still has 2 more free pylons to have long range gliding submunition dispensers to more or less flatten whatever remains on the SAM site, but these weapons can be intercepted if there are things like Roland, TOR, SA-8 etc still surviving on the site. Su-25T: Up to 6 anti radar missiles, two of which can be very fast and long ranged with a really large warhead. Can still have rockets, or S-25L missiles on top of those. Relatively easy targeting using the (mandatory) Phantasmagoria pod. Also, whereever you point the Phantasmagoria, Shkval camera will look there too, enabling use of non ARM weapons to be used on hostile radars as well. AV-8B N/A: Sidearms are probably even a little too good, as unlike other SEAD missiles, they tend to never miss, but their employment is just simple "point, shoot, hope for the best" kind of deal without advanced modes, and their range is kinda short. You can have 4 of those, and can still have a TGP or a jammer pod, and some guided bombs, lots of guided APKWS rockets, or many unguided stuff to clean up after the radars are gone. A-4E: This community mod, is a mod, yeah, but at this point it is essentially a free module in my opinion, and I don't approve easily :P. This little thing is the best! Well, ok, it is by far the worst, but also the best in being challenging and fun. You can have up to 4 Shrike missiles, which are crap! You get very little in the way of targeting, missiles track only when fired less than 10 nm away, even then not always, so fire a salvo and hope for the best is the way! If you don't need a very long endurance to and fro the target, you can have up to 3 rockeyes on centerline, or 6 iron bombs, or lots of rockets, so it can flatten most of whatever remains if you have somehow managed to get all the radars. Better bring your friend(s) though, because shrike is definitely a spray and pray kinda ARM . Having a waypoint at the SAM site really helps, so you can align, and know the ideal distance to shoot. Audio only RWR makes things extra spicy Honorable mentions: F-14: TALD decoys can be used to keep the SAM site busy, and other assets with anti radar missiles can shoot at the radars relatively safely. Or, you can duck down and head for the site to drop your rockeyes on them. AJS 37 Viggen: Go down super low and fast if you know the SAM site's location and have it as a waypoint. Then send BK 90 Mjölnirs from 7ish kms away, and turn back, they'll probably flatten most, perhaps all the site.

In this case though, Block 53 is literally late 70s-early 80s variant, including any potential TGPs it can have. After block 58 I think, F-4Es had an update to their radar, but as far as I know not a big one, and it still didn't have look down capability for example. Aside from that, RWRs, navigation/attack systems, and most of the ordnance remained very similar between mid 70s F-4E to those with ARN-101 updates, but even an ARN-101 bird would probably still be good representative of 80s-90s Israeli, Turkish, and Greek Phantoms I think. But they would be somewhat different compared to Iranian ones at that point. I often roll my eyes at "latest greatest" variant being tried to be developed by many devs as most people ask for those, but in case of F-4E, Block 53, maybe even 58 would both be a very happy medium. They would fit in beautifully with F-5E, Viggen restricted to AJ 37 level, MiG-21Bis, and upcoming MiG-23MLA, A-7E, A-6E, and also Mirage F1CE. With some ordnance restrictions, it can be a fit with A-4E, MiG-19P and F-8F too, as it still has essentially the same radar it had back in Vietnam War. Restrict air to air missiles to AIM-7E and AIM-9J/P, and you have a very nice 70s fighter bomber that fits greatly with many modules. No restrictions, you have a nice old school but still capable striker for later 70s and 80s with some self defense capability in a pinch, and still a decent striker in early 90s even if second fiddle by that point. 75-85 F-4E is just really the variant that can fit the best to the most DCS scenario potentials/servers/missions/campaigns/what-have-you. So it really isn't nearly as crazily different as in comparing a Block 50 F-16C to Block 15 F-16A. A Vietnam era F-4E for example, wouldn't be as good a fit to anything even just after the end of Vietnam War.

It's anything but wunderwaffe though, and I very much prefer we get a TGP phantom. Even the lantirn on tomcat hella more advanced than either TGP we may get for phantom. But lately I too lean somewhat closer to one block earlier that had Pave Spike and more old-school analog navigation and bombing computers. Still though, block 53 with ARN-101 wouldn't be any sort of wunderwaffe really. And an oldie, early TGP is a new thing to experience in DCS, and the best thing is, if you don't mount it, you have a non TGP F-4. Pave Tack on F-4 is already early 80s, but Pave Spike has been a thing on F-4s since 75 or so.

Very much this. It was a great variant too.

Later J/S also got leading edge slats like the E, and unlike what I've used to think, seems E also got better smokeless engines, so from a flight model perspective, late 70s or 80s variants of E and naval birds may actually be relatively close. Greatest differences would be in art and systems I'd say. I wouldn't mind to see them as separate modules, because the differences are clearly more than what's between the Tomcat versions. Offering owners of one variant something like 30 percent discount for the other variant would be welcome, and would probably lead into more sales for the dev, but that is in dev's discreation of course. I doubt D would be the better interceptor, only thing I can imagine it having over E is a larger nose for a bigger radar antenna, otherwise E simply replaced it in air force service as far as I know. I would also be surprised if naval phantoms had better defensive avionics compared to a contemporary E because E was expected to do strikes on hostile areas after all. That said, naval phantoms were indeed better air to air fighters overall due to better radar with look-down capabilities and improved range, as well as (if somewhat experimental) helmet mounted sights. Considering a late 70s to 80s timeframe, they should both have access to same air to air missiles, but by then they were both fairly behind the curve as air to air platforms, just less so for naval ones. Earlier on however, I think naval Sidewinder variants were a little better but not sure. While I am much closer to E camp, and Andrew is closer to naval camp, I essentially agree, it would be damn shame to have either as the only Phantom in DCS, this bird NEEDS to represented in at least E and a naval variant.

Yeah, with it looking like personal notes/anectodes, etc, cool as it look I think it's worth taking the site with a grain salt. Agree on 77 to whenever being pretty representative for a huge range of fitting scenarios, but 75-77 would still be about as representative, maybe also for people who wants older scenarios too. I'd be happy with either to be honest. Edit: oooppss... I've posted the wrong link on my above post, edited to fix now! As for the pod, I wonder if it is the datalink pod for GBU-15, but then, one would expect to see one onboard... though it's testing would be more or less correct for when the Pave Tack was being integrated I believe.

I think the biggest breaking point would be pre vs post ARN-101 update, which, apparently, was in 1977. It deleted old school analog navigation and bombing computers (somewhat a'la the ones on A-4E), and replaced it with a then modern digital system. But as far as I know there were pre ARN-101 birds with Pave Spike, Mavericks etc. Also, according to here: http://joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f4_11.html unlike what I thought, Pave Tack was apparently only ever mounted under inner wing pylons and not the centerline (as was originally intended). The site has other cool info too.

Well no leak is needed for that one, as an ED staff interview in Russian was published on youtube recently, and Kate said something like that. (Kate being ED COO) Yes, they have a public roadmap of sorts on trello actually. They have also commented that mystery module will likely release before Typhoon, or at least before A-6, A-6 being last in the line for now. Thus far Heatblur seems by far the most likely candidate. Which I would normally be very, very happy for, just not in case of F-4 because I'm afraid they'll go and make a naval one istead of F-4E -_- As for the Deka and Razbam, well, they are possible candidates too, but I frankly don't think they are nearly as likely. Deka even said their next module may perhaps be western aircraft too.

Patently wrong anything that isn't F-4E is a horrible starting point, it's not even a matter of discussion really

It is with a pod under the wings, and only for navigation as far as I know, but still very cool Anyway, this thing will be one of my absolute favorites in DCS!

It is not about agreeing-disagreeing or an opinion. They just won't make do for each other because of seriously huge avionics, generally used role, and ordnance differences. F-4Es had a lot more going when it comes to strike/ground attack, and yet naval F-4s had a lot more going for air to air. No amount of skins will give a naval F-4 Mavericks and any sort of targeting pods to lase GBUs, or an internal gun. Similarly, no amount of skins and eye squinting will make an F-4E's radar look down capable, or have exotics like early helmet mounted sights.