WinterH

Oh I hope you are right, I truly wish so, especially for F-4. Yet, I don't know if devs will do it. I want them to though, that's for sure. For me, F-4, if it isn't later block E, might as well not be made at all, and I know it is the other way around for some others. So I really want to see multiple variants of it, but among what we have in DCS, only Aerges' proposed Mirage F1 module approach the level of difference between F-4E and naval F-4s. Other multi variant modules we have had so far have been relatively similar when it comes to avionics, looks etc. I do certainly hope whomever is developing F-4 (most likely Heatblur) will take F-4's special case into consideration and plan either a two-in-one, or at least two separate modules. Personally, I have wanted variants to be a thing in DCS for many years myself, and I still do. With some aircraft, it is just a necessity. You can't make do with an F-4J or S for E, neither with E for the former. I'm ok with the idea of a "owner of one variant gets the others for a lighter price". We get variants, more toys to play with for less money, and devs get to make more business with relatively less costs. Pretty sure that wouldn't become the only content coming from that point on if such a system would start happening in DCS. Still though, I'd even be happy with both being full price modules when the difference and effort required is large enough, which frankly may be the case with F-4 variants. It's not like we didn't pay for a simlar case already anyway: Fw-190D-9 and Fw-190A-8 each being separate products. Originaly ED looked like they might eventually add F and G variants into the A-8 module, but that idea apparently fell by the wayside. Though, I must say that I am incredibly grateful for Aerges including CE, EE, BE, and M all apparently in a single package! Yep, Belsimtek's sadly buried module was going to be an F-4E Block 58 if I recall correctly, it was going to have the Pave Tack, and ARN-101. Pave Tack is similar to F-111's pod as far as I know, it is a centerline only mounting for F-4, and is huge, heavy, and draggy, but has more modern TGP features like automatic target tracking and night capability as far as I know. Pave Spike is a lot smaller and lighter, and goes into one of the fuselage AIM-7 recesses, leaving the centerline pylon still available for fuel or ordnance, but it was a daylight only system. I think it didn't have automatic target/area tracking, but not entirely sure. I'd be happy with either, but I kinda feel like slightly earlier block with the Pave Spike would be more representative of a worldwide service history, as the Pave Tack was USAF only I think. Things like Mavericks, Shrikes, Paveways should be shared between the two, but I think GBU-15 TV guided bomb may be Block 58 only. Air to air wise they should be mostly the same too I think.

This is already possibly actually, look for "Combined Task Force Blue" and "Combined Task Force Red" in mission editor. They both have access to every unit in DCS, as well as every skin for them. As far as I know "USAF Agressors" faction is also like that more or less.

My preferences for next helicopters would be: The more realistic possibilities: - I concur with armed Mi-2 ideas, if only for having a potentially armed light scout helo from the Red side too, and the thing is just cute! - AH-1F and/or AH-1W, but in late 80s to early 90s variants. We already have a really modern attack helo in AH-64Di so these would bring a very different flavor, and bring the iconic Cobra into the sim. They'll also be a great counterpart to the Hind. - A blackhawk of some description could be cool I guess, but I'd rather see the above two before that myself. - SeaKing variants would also be cool. - Wouldn't say no to a heavy transport like CH-47, CH-53, Mi-6, Mi-26 etc, and Chinook would be a unique helicopter due its configuration too. But these may prove a little too niche perhaps. Not nearly as likely things that I'd still love to see if possible: - Ka-52 and/or Mi-28N or above - Wouldn't say no to a Mi-35M either. - Rooivalk, because obscure and cool

Post Vietnam F-4 is the better choice anyway, it just fits with everything else in DCS better, and frankly, it is more interesting to fly anyway. At least so without a proper Vietnam environment which is not anywhere near on the horizon. The F-4E is a pretty good fit to many maps already, obviosuly USAF used it, but if we look at: - Caucasus: we have Turkey, and potentially USAF. - Syria map, Turkey, and through Cyprus potentially Greece, and obviously also Israel. Also USAF again. - Marianas, Japan had F-4EJ which, at least in am 80s, 90s kinda scenario isn't terribly different from later block F-4Es as far as I know. Again, also potentially USAF. - Persian Gulf: Iran, and if we feel like, we can say "Egypt joins the conflict and has a base on X airbase" we can include them in both of our Middle Eastern maps. - Nevada, well, USAF. My prediction is, "F-4 by a 3rd party, soon enough" hinted in ED interview most likely be Heatblur's currently unannounced module on their Trello roadmap, and it will most likely and most sadly be a naval variant I really hope they will at least consider making it late block E + any naval variant. If my prediction of Heatblur's mystery module being F-4 is true, it is supposed to see a release before both Eurofighter and A-6, but everything is subject to change etc. Otherwise, possibilities seem limited, like perhaps a new yet to be announced 3rd party developer for DCS, or perhaps Razbam having an unannounced Phantom under their sleeves, or Deka throwing a curveball and making one, or even Leatherneck having it planned etc. All other 3rd party devs seem to pretty well occupied, to be honest some of the ones I have listed also are. I still say Heatblur is the most likely scenario. Regardless though, we are not likely to see an F-4 before 1.5-2 years in our DCS hangars sadly, and even then, it is not clear whether it will be an E variant or not. Oh how I wish Belsimtek's greatly chosen variant was continued to be developed... I would like to say one thing though, even though my preferred variant obviously is E, I really do believe there is no way to do F-4 justice and to not have a pitchfork mob without doing at least 2 very different variants: F-4E and either F-4J or S.

A very loud YES. F-4E is essential in DCS. Other variants would be cool to get, but without E itself, an F-4 module is pointless as far as I'm concerned.

Eww... E or bust. Navals would be cool only in addition to the Phantom that matters! :)) Otherwise, no Phantom is better than naval only

Wishlist threads tend not to represent a high bar, but this one is shallow by even that standards I mean come on, "legendary" is an incredibly subjective moniker, what is legendary for one will not nearly be so for others etc. I also dislike the whole "only conflict relevant pls" attitude myself, if an aircraft is interesting, don't care if it never fired a shot in anger, if anything I am kinda more interested in obscure and rarely simulated things than poster kids. That said, I still would like some focus to be put on later 70s-80s maybe up to early-ish 90s stuff to enable a good, compatible playground to build missions in, be it fictional or historical. And F-4E is an incredibly obvious missing legend though. Could be followed by naval phantoms too, but only after E itself imo. I sincerely hope that the upcoming hinted Phantom from a 3rd part is NOT an only naval phantom module... it would be an incredibly sad missed opportunity not to give us the most worldwide served, conflict relevant, and also the most multirole and interesting variant of Phantom just because "but this one lands on boats!!! omg!" Otherwise though, I agree with Rudel (which is an incredibly rare occasion here :P): more European birds please... that or more "red" birds. I'd love to see Jaguar, Super Etendard, Mirage III and V, EE Lightning, Draken (c'mon Heatblur, make it a module!), and Tornado. Things like upcoming Mirage F1, F-8 Crusader, MiG-23MLA, A-7, A-6, and Fiat G.91 are some of the modules, and I really hope MiG-17 will actually become a module as they are intending. Also more helicopters pls!

Yes, Beta, don't have numbers but I have a discernable FPS loss and occasional micro stutters especially on Syria and Marianas maps. Ryzen 5 3600, 32GB RAM, m.2 nvme ssd, MSI 2060 Super GP OC

I think the FLIR pod is 80s too but not entirely sure. I personally prefer 80s versions anyway, it is a great sweet spot for DCS imo. Regardless though, I'm really, reeeeaally looking forward to this one.

Don't quote me on that but as far as I can remember we will get all but 9M120M

For me, some I can think of are: - AH-1W and/or AH-1F (80s or up to early 90s versions pls) - Another "heavier end of medium lift" bird like Super Frelon, Sea King family, Cougar and/or Caracal - Perhaps an oddball red side light helicopter like Mi-2 - Or maybe PZL W-3 Sokol - Very unlikely to happen pipedreams I would find cool: Rooivalk, Ka-52, Mi-28N - Some sort of Cayuse, Little Bird, MD Defender etc type helo - Last, UH-60, by some distant margin, but I'd still find it interesting anyway. Edit: Something unique like a Chinook or Sea Knight would be crazy cool too. Or other really heavy things like Tarhe, Jolly Green Giant, CH-53E, Mi-6, Mi-10, Mi-26 etc.

I also recall some Mirage F1s having an early helmet sight. I think the fuss about HMS on MiG-29 and Su-27 is more about the fact they paired it with a good high off boresight angle capable dogfight missile like R-73 earlier on. Though AIM-9L or M with a helmet sight could be interesting to a degree still. Still prefer F-4E though

I would say that is quite reasonable unless you hit them almost perfectly perpendicularly from the top. Even their side armor is more than what a 20mm semi armor piercing round can deal with reliably. A-10 on the other hand, should do a number on them.

Both would be amazing, naval only would make me turn to Khorne

A boat F-4 is entirely pointless, useless, and a horrible missed opportunity for me.

I remember F-14, Viggen, Mosquito, Mi-24 all being offered as gifts for events long before their release or preorder before. Until we hear from Aerges/ED, it means just what it say on the tin: it'll be offered as a gift to person who watches the stream, to be redeemed whenever it actually releases. That said, I would love it to be sooner than later...

I would expect APHE shells in DCS to not really act like HE, but do more overall damage to a vehicle after a successful penetration than pure AP. Upcoming HEDP shell in Apache should have both anti armor and HE capabilities to some degree, and most HEAT rockets etc are also like that. But since APHE is usually meant to go off after going through some armor, I think in the context of DCS those will mostly be modeled as "AP shells that do more damage if they can pen". I don't really know it for sure, but I'd be surprised if APHE shells work well at all as HE substitutes IRL in most of the cases. In softish earth they'll probably bury themselves before going off, and against hard surfaces they may shatter before fuse doing its thing. Looking at the files listed there however, there seems only to be AP and AP tracer, and taking a cursory look into their data, looks like they are almost exactly the same apart from one having a tracer. Their damage factor is listed the same too, so it doesn't seem like one is AP and other APHE from the current data. Regardless, I'm very happy that now we get both AP and HE shells available at last Edit: took a look at MiG-19's AP vs APHE, and (I know, not an ED module), it looks like it's not modeled in that case as I thought, instead they seem to have same damage factor but APHE has some HE content.

They mean next-gen Heatblur module, it doesn't mean a modern fighter. They've confirmed this a few times as far as I can recall.

I was sure I've replied to this but I guess I didn't click submit reply. A Block 53 F-4E would be pretty damn well representative actually. USAF, Israel, Turkey all got the Pave Spike TGP, perhaps others too not sure. With some loadout restrictions it would also represent others like Egypt, Japan, Germany, Iran as well. As far as I know, the radar and RWR etc are overall the same among most E variants. Block 58 would be a little less representative due to pave tack TGP being very different and as far as I know USAF specific. There were nation specific upgrades eventually, but these were pretty complex stuff which simply weren't F-4E anymore, and they were mostly latter parts of 90s to 2000s era stuff. Yeah it is quite one size fits all as far as it's a mid to late 70s variant, but even 80s variant would be quasi passable for other nations' F-4Es. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to learn more though. Naval F-4 on the other hand, would only represent USN/USMC, or perhaps RN/RAF if you squint hard enough. Not to mention it flat out misses decades long service history all over the world, as well as very cool old school multirole precision attack capabilities, and its gun. All for the sake of landing on a boat or something :). If we only get a naval one, it would be the greatest shame in DCS after ED's killing of F-4E for Meh-16 F-4E is by FAR the better fit for DCS. Ideally, we really should get at least one naval + F-4E, but if we only get one, E really should be the way to go... which is why I'm worried that it looks like Heatblur may be doing the Phantom, as I'm almost sure they'll just do the naval one.

Mi-28's mounting is not nearly as rigid as KA-50, and 2A42 should have plenty more recoil than M230, so I wouldn't be surprised with Mi-28 not being as accurate as AH-64 if that's indeed the case.

And I sure hope it's the E, it would be waste not to have the one with a huge worldwide history, incredibly better ground attack options, and fitting to just about every DCS map/scenario. If we only get a naval one, honestly I'd be happier with no phantom than that...

Some opinions (which is bad idea but, oh well...): - Operationally, M230 uses only one type of ammo: HEDP, 30mm dual purpose round with both HEAT and fragmentation characteristics. It will most likely not be as effective as 30mm pure HE in dealing with soft targets, it will penetrate as much armor under ideal conditions either. - It will penetrate 25mms of armor at any distance, unlike a kinetic round. 25mms is quite enough to deal with great majority of IFV type targets it will engage. - It can very easily point/target/rangefind/gunlay etc with multiple methods, including just looking at the target. It also has enough ammo to saturate the area even if it isn't mechanically as accurate as 2A42 or GSh-30-2. It can do that a lot easier than Ka-50, and it's not even a comparison between AH-64D and Mi-24P for gunlaying. - That said, from most of the IRL footage I've seen, as well as implementation in other sims/games (I know, not necessarily the best source), it does seem to have considerable dispersion, and is even called "area weapon system" apparently. The round almost certainly has less ballistic range than either Ka-50 or Mi-24P's guns, but as long as it can hit something, it'll still go through 25mms of armor (depending on the impact angle of course). Probably it will not really be accurate at extreme range at all, but even with robbie tanks it has enough ammo to "throw enough of it until it sticks" as far as I know. Also worth noting that in Mi-24 we don't even have HE rounds at all for now, for some reason, making the gun borderline useless against blobs of infantry sadly. M230 won't have that problem because literally the only round it uses is a "do it all" round.

Quite simply, if you want air to ground, E is where it's at, but for air to air naval F-4s had a better radar. E already started to get some early precision guided weapon options during Vietnam war, and from mid 70s on it had access to a pretty decent and diverse range of ground attack options as well as early targeting pods. Also, it served more or less all over the world in this capacity, with a few countries still operating upgraded variants to this day. Naval Phantoms had both bigger space avaiable in the nose for a larger radar, and an actually more advanced radar set. They had look down shoot down capability, unlike the E. But they had much less in the way of strike capabilities, and by the time they got most of the advanced air to air capability, they were already second fiddle to F-14. But then, we can say that to some degree for USAF too with F-111, though F-4E has been the premier striker for many other air forces around the world. Naval F-4s didn't stay in service as long, and they mainly served for USN & USMC, apart from a short tenure in UK before getting replaced by British variants (but they were also based on the naval Phantom line). I really, really, reeeeaaaallly very strongly hope which ever 3rd party is doing it decided to do both a 75-80s F-4E AND a naval variant, either J or S. There really is no way to do even halfway justice to Phantom without at least these two variants.

I think Mosquito will probably be able to do so, I also vaguely remember them being one of the aircraft used in intercepting V-1, but don't know if it was our particular version.

Counting the multiple variant DCS aircraft is fun and all. But we must admit the level of differences between a Navy and Air Force F-4 go well beyond them, perhaps upcoming Mirage F1 versions will be somewhat closer, but even those probably won't be as fundamentally different. I'd love if we could get at least 5 F-4 variants across services and time periods, but practically I really don't expect it to happen. Yet... I think getting at least 2 of them is pretty much necessary: a post Vietnam F-4E, preferrably later parts of 70s or maybe 80s, and a naval F-4J or S, either somewhat earlier, or also of the same vintage. Personally, F-4 without said E model doesn't mean anything for me, and I'm sure the opposite is true for many others. Even if they are two separate full price modules, or 2in1 deal, or separate modules but with heavy discount on the other for the owner of either one, these two types are the bare minimum. I don't know if we'll even get that to be honest though... I'm afraid they'll pick one and stick with it much to the chagrin of those that want the other.