0xDEADBEEF

I have said this from day one and spent quite some effort via PM explaining why I think the FM very off, the more I look into it, the more off I find it. The last answer I got was they are busy with the mistral and multicrew, and after that is finished they will have a look at the stuff that I have pointed out in quite some detail. The explanation was: "our testpilots did not point these issues out". Basically in my humble opinion, the gazelle tries to fly like a helicopter but fails. The only input affecting pitch and roll is cyclic, where in a real helicopter any input affects pitch and roll. You pull collective, nose goes up. You press a pedal and you will introduce roll (less than yaw of course, but it will roll!). You gain speed your nose will pitch up. Nothing like that is happening in the gazelle, and I am 100% sure this is not because of the semi-rigid rotorhead, the SAS, the fenestron or the gazelle being different. After all it has two spinning disks that are bound to physics. This is just because it is not modeled. If you wanna slow down you apply aft cyclic and hold attitude by lowering collective accordingly, if you do this in the gazelle it will not stop pitching up with aft cyclic no matter how much you lower collective, actually collective seems to have absolutely no influence on pitch attitude AT ALL, which is plain unrealistic. Sorry Polychop, I have been pointing this out since the initial release, and I will continue to point this out until you at least acknoledge there is somethign wrong or explain in a reasonable way why my assumptions are wrong (I am always happy to learn). So far all you said is "there is only tweaks necessary to the flightmodel" and "we cannot simulate the rotorhead 1:1" and "our testpilots are very happy, and they flew the real deal thousands of hours".

But at the same time you give up max deflection, which you can only overcome by using the trim function, which I personally don't on helicopters. I prefer modding my springs to give little to no friction, as trim in a non-ffb stick is just unrealistic and gives away the possibility to actually feel the attitude of the helicopter via the actual stick deflection off center. If you want realism, get an extension to match the throw you are looking for. Especially in helicopters I would not use any kind of curves because of the way they work and are piloted.

As far as I know you need the farp. But it seems like even this is not quite working the way it seems to be supposed to. I've had a case where the farp would only activate if I add a OSA unit (may not be specific to the sa8) in addition to ATC (Humvee/SKP11), Fuel Truck and Ammo Truck ... I would truly appreciate some official word on how the logic works. Beef

I've done that through CTLD-Callbacks, I basically safe the groupname along with the pilots name/ucid once something is unpacked to a table. I then intercept Shot/Hit/Kill events and safe them to another table. Whenever I get a kill event on the Client side (as they dont appear on mission side) I transfer it to the Mission side by saving it to a file, load it on mission side and check if it correlates to an earlier hit, which has all necessary information saved. I do not use SLMod though, but so far I manage to safe scores for a player-deployed sam reliably.

I am so glad I am not the only one who speaks up!!!!!!! This issue is a complete dealbreaker! I have explained it lengthy both in threads and via PM with Roie, last status I got was they are finally looking into it, and it was only not taken care of because the real-Gazelle-Pilots failed to report it ... That said! Yay multicrew! More Yay Mistral!!! Good job Polychop! I am sincerely looking forward to the finished Product! :joystick: :)

I'm afraid you will have to accept to relearning, because the current flightmodel has some quite huge flaws (cyclic being centered in most flyingstates), it is actually currently impossible to fly standard helicopter procedures due to this very fact. I've spent quite some effort explaining this to the devs and I think they finally understood. For instance, decelerating a chopper works by moving cyclic aft and reducing power. If you apply aft cyclic to the current gazelle, it will continue rolling backwards until you stop applying aft cyclic/return to neutral, completely independent of the power setting, which is not how helicopters work. A real helicopter would only continue rolling backwards if you keep power applied, but as airspeed reduces during the following climb, this effect would lessen fast, thats why it is so hard to do backflips with helicopters. I have no reason to believe the gazelle is any different to all other helicopters, and so far nobody has stepped up and explained why the gazelle would be so much different to every single other helicopter (neither SAS nor fenstron would be an explanation). I've tried my best to explain this to the best of my knowledge in a constructive manner. That said, the OPs question on how to use magnetic trim can only yield a valid answer for the current version of the gazelle, and I currently would not even feel a need to use trim at all due to the reasons explained above (cyclic basically centered in all flightphases, unless you command an attitude change).

I agree! It even locks headon now, and the motor is pretty much smokeless too. All those migs accustomed to no head-on offense are super surprised now :megalol: :joystick: :pilotfly: But to stay on-topic, I always uncage. Mapped it to the brakes-in switch on the warthog hotas, so I dont have ro hold it. Had good results, even with the old Aim9, got a bunch of kills off boresight, but the lead solution had to be spot on. I was quite excited when I first saw the missile take off, felt like twice the speed. Dont know how fast it really is, but noticeably faster.

Dear ED, The new introduction of closing the chat by holding Tab makes me wanna write some feedback on the mp-chat function, I'll do my very best to make it as constructive as I possibly can. - the chat window deactivates *all* buttons, on keyboard and joystick. I can very much understand the keyboard, but the joystick must be a product of code, rather than intention. It would be great if you could not block joystick presses, when the chat-window is active, which would make some faster reactions possible, if you accidentally decide it's smart to type while in combat and you find yourself in the need to press a hotas-button NOW (which currently would not do anything unless you close the chat first) - closing the chat by holding Tab makes you loose valuable split seconds in a wrong situation in multiplayer because you need to press a button NOW, but the chat window is open for a likely not so smart reason (typing in combat, i.e., I dont recommend it). I would strongly suggest against it. To be fair, I found it quite entertaining to watch people in the MP-Chat when they try it the fist time and are completely lost (it was at least 15 ppl in the first hour i played after the patch came out), like I was myself. However, I don't see any benefits from this method, but I see a number of drawbacks. If there's a benefit I don't see, my ears are wide open. - the biggest problem is see with chat is that ever since the introduction of 1.5 the text is completely unreadable on certain backgrounds. Think blue-text and blue sky, white text on snowcovered mountains. The gaming industry repeatedly came up with nice ways to deal with this in the past 15-25 years, and honestly DCS is the only "game" where this is a problem. For instance a black outline, or some kind of shadow should do the trick. Really no rocket science, I would sincerely appreciate if you guys could make the chat readable on all backgrounds, as ever since the first release of 1.5 I find myself looking anywhere with trackir to actually be able to read the chatmessages. - last but not least: not being able to distinguish between team messages and global messages is something that I initially didn't feel like reporting, but since it still has not changed ever since 1.5. came out I really feel a strong need to point this out. I do understand you guys have other priorities. I do however also have enough knowledge about Game-Development and Coding to be aware that coding a simple yet effective chat-system is not something that will keep a decent coder busy longer than a couple of days, where other tasks may take months or even years. I would sincerely appreciate a fix of the things I mentioned above. Thank you very much! beef

turn up the missile seeker volume nob.

Hello! I think I've read that the AA1-AA2 modes are broken in the initial release, however i do not know how broken they are. I seem to get AA2 Mode working just fine if I manually lock the target in search mode. I still find it incredibly hard to hit the target because of the rather wide spread of the guns. A precision burst feels quite impossible even if 50m behind the target and pipper on. And the second thing I found, even if I visually see 3-4 hits, the plane (mig21 in mp in this case) keeps flying with no visual damage. While I am not entirely sure if this is the case, the Mirage2000 had a similar problem, where shells carried too little explosives to be actually harmful. I think it's possible that this is the case here. Maybe you guys can have a look. On another note, I kinda bought the F5 during pre-purchase bonus-time kinda impulsively, much more because I wanted to support the Devs than because I wanted the plane. Now that I've spent a bunch of hours on it, I must say I'm extremely suprised by how well it already works and how much fun it is to fly, especially against mig21 in MP. Big thanks and lots of respect for that, Belsimtek :)

you want the seeker uncaged once you got a lock. If you dont uncage the missile, it will loose lock as soon as you move the target off missile-boresight. If you uncage the missile before you have lock, the missile will look randomly but not boresight, making it hard for you to get a lock. So: aim to missile boresight, get lock-tone, uncage the missle, aim for some lead to dramatically improve hit probability, after you launched the missile you can release the uncage button.

I really can't wait till Sling-Loading will finally become stable in Multiplayer, the Forestry Operations are SO MUCH FUN!!! :pilotfly: ${1}

I can feel your pain, I had about a similar frustartion when the change was introduced, but to be brutally honest. Ever since my flying style has changed and I'm not looking back. My turns are way more concious, I manage to preserve my energy much better and yes, I still wrecked two wings in the past month, and everytime I hope it's gonna be the last. To give you a tip on the way: I found that the ACS manages the Gs nicely when below subsonic, as long as you pull symmetrical Gs (only stick aft, no aileron input), what usually breaks my wings is when I'm already high G, and start rolling, creating asymmetric load on the wings. Be concious about when you pull gs and when you roll and how much or not you mix those two components, and your wings will break a lot less!

I just noticed that in DCS 1.5.4.54855 update 1 there is no place information in the event when taking off from a FARP. When taking off from an Airport the place is being dispatched in the event, also when landing on Airport and FARP, but NOT when taking off from a FARP. I also noticed the LAND and TAKEOFF events are now triggered anywhere when a chopper lands, which I think is a very cool thing, thank you for this addition ED! If there is a need for the mission file for testing please let me know, but I think this should be easily reproducable. beef

i fired 6 R73s yesterday on a head on A10a from 5km in a burst and all 6 missed (had to create a kill event for script-testing in mp environment, AI vs Client #1). I noticed missile weakness in MP as well, it is definitely a lot worse than before 1.5.4. On a positive note: I sincerely enjoy the rapid and severe increase in turning fights!

try a repair on your installation: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2548018

While I do understand your frustration JSF, it does not particularly fill your request with sense. From the year I've been here, I understood that ED makes the missiles fit into the information they have about their performance. While this indeed creates some discrepancy, I have no reason to believe that I have the ability to collect better or more reliable information than ED has, who have been working in this industry for decades, and I would frankly assume the same for you. Yes I agree, in terms of gameplay-balance the Su is not exactly on par with the F15, the Amraam is out of question superior to the 27 and its variants, and probably the same will happen with the Mirage in the hands of a capable pilot. But DCS is not a game per se, it is a Simulator, it's primary purpose is to simulate RL as best as it can based on the Information available, which is - with all due respect - quite thin. That said, from my personal experience especially in the past 6 months after I got some practice and tried a bunch of different tactical approaches, I find myself to have a PK of about 70-80% with 27ER missiles. I have learned which kind of shooting solution works and which one doesn't, and I usually fire only when I am certain I am not wasting the missile. Yes, I usually fire from within 10km or less, and in 50% of the time the enemy is unaware of my presence and/or location while I am aware of his presence since 50km or more. The point I am trying to make is, it is not about what kind of weapons you carry, it is about how you employ them. This goes along with the fight-report you are quoting. We do not know about the experience of those pilots (a russian mercenary might be an experienced retired combat pilot or someone who dropped of the airforce soon after he got his badge with no experience). We do not know what kind of solution they had and what their intentions have been when they fired. The only thing we have is those numbers, but we do not have enough information to judge about the quality of the missile, as there's more factors in that than how many hit and how many missed.

Earm. I am confused. Did you just say you guys will settle with a flight model that is good enough? Nobody is expecting you create perfection. But I am indeed expecting you to make it is a good as possible, I would be hugely disappointed if you guys would settle for good enough. :huh: No offense. But an honest reaction.

I would like to chime in as well with a couple of thoughts. Just flew it a couple of minutes and I basically agree with what you guys said. Opposed to the initial version, i did not have the feeling the helicopter flies completely off and i was able to easily control it without relearning how to fly a helicopter, good job on that, I really appreciate this improvement! The biggest things I noticed (which I already mentioned at the initial release): - Now blowback/pitch vs power effect at all. Well ok, there is a tiny little bit of nose-up at ~150kph, but 0.1mm of fwd cyclic was enough to compensate. In general I feel like I'm not moving the cyclic at all. - I am still able to drop or rise the collective without any kind of pitch-attitude change. This is the same for SAS on and off. I feel like those two effects may have the same origin. - going to extremes: dropping the collective at 200kph with simultanious full aft cyclic does not change the rotors RPM at all. The RPM needle stays steady instead of rising through the roof. - the torque meter feels very linear to the collective position. I would expect it to lag a little behind. I would expect the swashplate to react linear, but the forces to take some time until torque is demanded from the engine and recognized by the torquemeter. Still, great work so far! I'm very much looking forward to the future progress of this module, I'm afraid its going to be one of my favourites :joystick:

winchesterdelta, I don't think you are wrong with what you say. But I think this is not the place to bring this kind of discussion up one more time. Removing the 120 from a Server creates a different kind of fight, skill or no skill, period. You can argue as much as much as you want, this is a simple and easy to proof fact. You will see different tactics applied, you will see more merges, and I personally find it at lot of fun! just to bring up some points: - you cant see the aim120 visually, Aim7 makes the same smoke plume as 27, its much easier if you see something coming. - f15 can't peform a split s without giving up the missile, this puts you one or two steps ahead compared to 120 available, since you don't need to deal with the missile, you will be offensive right away - BVR with reduced range weapons is naturally more intense I think it is perfectly valid to ask for that kind of servers, it is definitely no sign of bad piloting skills, like it seems you want to imply.

was there an update?? :huh:

I could be wrong, but afaik repair crates are for units spawned by helicopters, not for airbases?

Usually friday there will be an update released for either version. You will notice by checking the very first forum (Updates and News), there's only official posts in there with more or less accurate release notes. That's why I'm asking (not everything makes it into the release notes)

It's a bunch of more stuff than that. and you know, trimming in the real one works different than on a spring loaded stick ... I usually dont trim helicopters in sims but have my springs removed. Stick position is different relative to current state of flight (speed/attitude/power etc.) in every helicopter but the current gazelle. But this is not supposed to be a critique thread, Polychop apparently has all the info they need :thumbup: I never had and still absolutely dont have a single doubt you guys will get it right :smilewink:

cool, thanks! All the patience in the world :)