0xDEADBEEF

I would like to chime in as well with a couple of thoughts. Just flew it a couple of minutes and I basically agree with what you guys said. Opposed to the initial version, i did not have the feeling the helicopter flies completely off and i was able to easily control it without relearning how to fly a helicopter, good job on that, I really appreciate this improvement! The biggest things I noticed (which I already mentioned at the initial release): - Now blowback/pitch vs power effect at all. Well ok, there is a tiny little bit of nose-up at ~150kph, but 0.1mm of fwd cyclic was enough to compensate. In general I feel like I'm not moving the cyclic at all. - I am still able to drop or rise the collective without any kind of pitch-attitude change. This is the same for SAS on and off. I feel like those two effects may have the same origin. - going to extremes: dropping the collective at 200kph with simultanious full aft cyclic does not change the rotors RPM at all. The RPM needle stays steady instead of rising through the roof. - the torque meter feels very linear to the collective position. I would expect it to lag a little behind. I would expect the swashplate to react linear, but the forces to take some time until torque is demanded from the engine and recognized by the torquemeter. Still, great work so far! I'm very much looking forward to the future progress of this module, I'm afraid its going to be one of my favourites :joystick:

winchesterdelta, I don't think you are wrong with what you say. But I think this is not the place to bring this kind of discussion up one more time. Removing the 120 from a Server creates a different kind of fight, skill or no skill, period. You can argue as much as much as you want, this is a simple and easy to proof fact. You will see different tactics applied, you will see more merges, and I personally find it at lot of fun! just to bring up some points: - you cant see the aim120 visually, Aim7 makes the same smoke plume as 27, its much easier if you see something coming. - f15 can't peform a split s without giving up the missile, this puts you one or two steps ahead compared to 120 available, since you don't need to deal with the missile, you will be offensive right away - BVR with reduced range weapons is naturally more intense I think it is perfectly valid to ask for that kind of servers, it is definitely no sign of bad piloting skills, like it seems you want to imply.

was there an update?? :huh:

I could be wrong, but afaik repair crates are for units spawned by helicopters, not for airbases?

Usually friday there will be an update released for either version. You will notice by checking the very first forum (Updates and News), there's only official posts in there with more or less accurate release notes. That's why I'm asking (not everything makes it into the release notes)

It's a bunch of more stuff than that. and you know, trimming in the real one works different than on a spring loaded stick ... I usually dont trim helicopters in sims but have my springs removed. Stick position is different relative to current state of flight (speed/attitude/power etc.) in every helicopter but the current gazelle. But this is not supposed to be a critique thread, Polychop apparently has all the info they need :thumbup: I never had and still absolutely dont have a single doubt you guys will get it right :smilewink:

cool, thanks! All the patience in the world :)

theres a bunch of points that I already pointed out in the bug reports and the other things that people have extensively discussed and a bunch of other minor thigns that I noticed but didn't report, because polychop has all my trust to get the problems right in reasonable time, and I am certain that the small things i did not report will get corrected by themselves as the fm progresses. Basically my problem with the FM is that it is very very early (first early access beta release, I do not expect it to be perfect :smilewink:)

Do you have any information on when you will update the gazelle? I've just tried it again after installing todays update and the fm feels exactly the same as before ...

Awesome! Really looking forward to try the FM updates! :) I saw lots of constructive comments on some very obvious FM-flaws, I did not see anyone asking to make the FM more simple/easier to fly, I certainly didn't, actually the few things I pointed out would make it more complex to fly. I wonder where your impression comes from. :huh:

I use a Warthog with the main-spring removed and extra grease for improved precision (mainly for improved helicopter flying), I have absolutely no trouble controlling the mirage with no curves and no deadzones, I actually like the recent changes because it doesn't feel like flying a computer anymore. I had a X52 before the Warthog too, and it helped for me to compress the spring with a cabletie for less centering force and added some grease on the frictioning parts. I always had problems with removing deadzone in the X52 though (I dont like deadzones).

Of course practicing makes your flying better. Still this does not change the fact that the FM is in its infancy (thats no critique). This needs to be "fixed", it is Polychops "fault" (this is no blame), because you can practice as much as you want, you wont be able to lift it off like a real Gazelle/Helicopter in the current version. Like many other details that are *not yet* simulated. Again: it is no surprise and very much ok that the FM is an early infant. But there is also NO point in saying it isnt so and you'd only have to practice ...

I guess its time for me to get one too :)

I do not get why you keep defending the FM without bringing up any points. There is also absolutely no point in claiming this FM is already perfectly realistic, unless you have bullet proof explanation of why the gazelle does not pitch up when it enters ETL - like *every* other helicopter does because of aerodynamics and physics. Plus all the other points that have been brought up and explained ... It is perfectly fine that the FM needs work and tweaks, but there is no point in saying it isnt so. And since this is the praise thread, lets stay on topic: POLYCHOP DID A FANTASTIC JOB SO FAR!!! You guys rock! :pilotfly:

Even with all the critique I post, I never have a single doubt your hard work is worth it. It is not only worth it but also highly appreciated! Please keep it up!!! :pilotfly:

After all my critique on the Flightmodel I also wanna send some praise as well! It looks fricken beautifull and I'm really looking forward to the Beta Process, you guys have all my trust that this is going to be an exceptional Module! :joystick::pilotfly::thumbup:

Some things I noticed regarding flight dynamics: there is no blowback, pitch/power effect at all if you enter ETL, every chopper is supposed to pitch up with increasing airspeed which needs to be compensated with fwd cyclic to achieve level flight. The gazelle does not, and even if you keep the pitch, you will nose-dive into the ground. Actually the rotor generates more lift with increased airspeed, which should prevent this from happening. In level forward flight at no certain airspeed, if you drop collective the nose attitude does not change at all, the helicopter would only start to sink without nosing down (no pitch/power effect present in the gazelle) I do not know if this behaviour is specific to the gazelle, but it is certainly very different to every helicopter I've flown in decent sims (UH-1 and X-plane: AS350, B407, R22, B206, BK117) and got to try at least IRL (Bo105, R66). Based on this experience I'm having a hard time trying to believe that this is realistic behaviour. still, I think the Gazelle is going to be one of the most amazing aircraft in DCS. You guys did a fantastic job modelling it! I have no reason to doubt you will end up with a fantastic AFM for the Gazelle and I'm really looking forward to it!

Fair point. I've flown a couple of 100 hrs in x-plane (As350, Bell 407, BK117, R22, ...) and another couple of hundred hours UH-1 in DCS. I also got to fly about 3.5hrs in real choppers (Bo105: one takeoff and landing including traffic pattern and taxi and 3hrs R66 cruise plus 2 landings, all without Pilot help or touching controls, to my own surprise) and was very amazed how well my simulator experience translated into the real thing. I'm about as much surprised and confused that currently this experience does not translate to the Gazelle at all (except for the sensitivity, which is nothing I would complain about). :joystick: I would also like to state once again that i am aware it is Beta and I think it is fine that the FM is not finished and lacking realism. I only find it awkward that it isn't communicated at all and many people claim they think its great. Also in case it turns out I am wrong and that the current flightmodel is perfectly realistic along with an explanation of why the Gazelle flies so much different than any other chopper I will be happy to apologize. BTW Focha, did you notice that in level flight, if you drop the collective whatever amount you find appropriate, the nose attitude stays exactly the same. Only the vertical speed would change. I'm having a hard to believe this is realistic. To my knowledge this is one of the fundamentals of flight (pitch vs power).

try this: fly ~150kph forward level flight. slowly drop the collective and watch your attitude. As far as my knowledge goes, every helicopter will nose down (even a cessna 172 will if you cut power). The current Gazelle wont. You can practice as much as you want, it will not change anything on this behaviour. once again the disclaimer: I have not flown the gazelle IRL, if this is something it really does i will apologize, I just currently have no reason to believe it does. My understanding of SAS is that it dampens these effects without completely removing them, but even If I switch off SAS i do not see any change. I do reserve the right to be wrong.

Thank you very much Roie! You guys have all my trust and patience.

I agree on the first part but I do not think the FM is anywhere near that yet. I'm not going to fly it much in the current version because I'm honestly afraid of learning it wrong. It took me a while to learn flying choppers, I was lucky to get about 3.5hrs in real choppers as well and what I learned in sims translated very very well to the real thing, but it does not translate at all to the Gazelle in its initial/current version, and I'm not talking about the twitchyness of the controls (I got to fly Bo105 and R66 IRL, and both are at least as twitchy). I do understand the Gazelle is BETA and I do not regret my purchase. I will patiently wait for the FM to improve and I trust Polychop that they will. I also have to admit that I havent even seen a gazelle IRL so I have no clue of how it flies. I just do not think that the Gazelle flies this dramatically different than every other chopper which it currently does.

I think you are save to still buy early access. I have no doubt in Polychop getting it as realistic as possible in the future, and buying it now will only support them. Even though I'm very confused about the current flight model, I do not regret the purchase!

+1 as well! I've already opened a thread (cyclic response question) with a similar topic. I noticed that whatever situation I am in, I never move the cyclic more than a millimeter or two. Complete lack of blowback. Kind of feels like in an RC-Helicopter with a broken tail-gyro. :huh: I do understand the chopper is beta! I do not understand the lack of communication from Polychop. Everybody thinks the AFM is final and is applauding on how good it is, but I hate to say it is simply very far from finished. Again, I do understand it is beta and it is no complaint about the current FM status, but please improve your communication Polychop!! (RAZBAM has set the bar in terms of communication with the M2000)

Hello! I've just tried the Gazelle for the first time and I am very surprised by how the cyclic works. I assume it is the SAS/AP compensating, but when I switch it off I do not see the behaviour I'm expecting. For instance, in *every* helicopter I've flown so far in RL (R66 and Bo105) and Sims (UH1, AS350, B407, B206, EC135, MD500, R22, BK117 - mostly X-Plane) the chopper would pitch up while accelerating, so you need to put cyclic forward the faster you go. Same with pitch, if you are flying i.e. 80kias and drop the collective the chopper would nose down (Pitch vs Power). The Gazelle does nothing like that. If you drop the collective the pitch stays the same and the chopper starts sinking with the same attitude. I'm NOT saying that this is unrealistic, because I've never ever flown a gazelle neither in RL nor in a Sim so I have absolutely no clue about that. I'm just saying that I right now after spending an hour getting to know her I am really really confused. :huh: I'm doing fine with the twitchyness and stuff, but please can someone explain to me why the Gazelle behaves so much different than everything else with main and tailrotor that I've flown before? Thank you guys! Beef

You guys rock! Besides everything in the newsletter is awesome, this is the one I cheer the most for! Thank you very much ED!!!