Worrazen

Well I've just shown you that objects are not draw calls. An object can have 1 or 100s of draw calls, or even none, there is no context whether those objects are drawn or not or if they're even visible or not, since there's is no occlussion culling I can only speculate that it shows all the rendered ones regardless if they're visible to our eyes, or they may have some internal meaning. Simulation doesn't mean much to me either, it's an internal counter, it may be equivalent to something general but I avoided the issue by simply bypassing and ignoring it in my tests, so I never use or do comparisons with that counter.

I think the longer loading at boot time may be due to component changes, authentication and protection, loading it takes the new audio data structure and perhaps file verification against changes/cheats, but I didn't look deeper into it yet.

Something like that yes, but I didn't want to speculate about the root cause too much.

Oh yeah, let me clarify that, they may be two separate games and should be treated as such on one development level, certainly using the the same data set so there is no change in that regard but in terms of the code they're more separate than one would think and they should be, SP shouldn't have any tweaks or limitations that are meant for MP, and vice versa. The way I meant tack-on was from a practical user point of view where the you play MP 10% of the time. I'm not saying MP is bad or we don't need it, so let's not overkill our critical analysis just because we prefer SP at this point in time, infact I was looking to try MP I just never came far enough, I really need a new joystick first and TrackIR, that 500€ I can't pull out of the air right now and I still need to learn these aircraft to not look like a jerk in MP, some people want MP so badly they're willing to put up with the downsides .... wait willing, but they're complaining so much ... however if these problems appear to happen with 2.5.6 OB then that's the thing right here, serious MP communities should avoid betas then. You and others shouldn't be bashing them for "runining it in 2.5.6" that is a whole new build with many things going on besides MP, it's not intended, it's a bug, and it's WIP. The whole "MP as a tack-on" is also more philosopical but it does the trick when anything goes wrong with MP I simply don't get upset, sometimes not stable, it'll get stabler later, taking it super seriously can be a trap people fall into. DCS tech in many ways is behind industry standards so after a season of modules it's time to close the hatches and dive deep to play catchup, but not really because the industry said so, but because people are so demanding ... wo wo wo wait a minute, but that's the gaming industry standard that people want to just expect to just carry over, while we are in the sim industry, it can't just carry over easily that, for your realism you have to sacrifice something else, however what DCS is I think becoming, is a hybrid, that is a big sim with enough evolution that it does have the good graphics component and other things that can be used to make a gaming/entertainment experience possible. This gets into complicated philosopical area, whether trying to learn an aircraft from a serious sim perspective can be considered a type of entertainment as well, and what really "pure entertainment" even means, the thing may be relative and virtual to the person like what you make of it, but I don't know, I still rather separate this with some objective definition that doesn't need to be very strict, just roughly, and if a person considers his serious learning session to be his best and only entertainment then so be it. The users can have different meanings of entertainment, but if a product tries to serve more types of people it has to have it's own balance, separation and adjustability. I agree with the clean A-10C cockpit textures thing, baseline first. It makes much more sense for the offical version to have baselines rather than unofficial mods, now I'm not a pilot but my opinion still comes from this philosopy and not from my personal taste, the reality argument is invalid because both are real, the pilots just aren't likely to deal with a brand new aircraft delivered fresh, but it does look fresh when it is devliered. Because for serious flight simming like I want to learn, is a cockpit texture really important, so that's a subjective entertainment thing IMO, that's my point. Outside of this ofcourse worn-texture should come as well equally because that's what the customer wants in real life in practice and that is part of the reality of what pilots experience. I'm mostly disappointed at the bright minds in the popular gaming industry that are totally eye-starred by the very kindergarden (in terms of reality accuracy and many other things) games like calls of various duties and battles on a field, they have no interest for any serious type of game like a solar system simulator or flight simulator. Remember Doom 4 debalce, they scrapped it all as it turned into a mish-mash of COD and BF, the studio heads weren't training the new generations and the whole new hires were out of sync with any of the legacy of real PC games.

Additionally, you can see the relationship of GPU Speed vs. CPU Usage in this separate general test using the same scenario/mission. The more frames the GPU can push the better CPU it needs, even if there is practically no extra activity going on in DCS, the view is still and there's nothing whatsoever happening in the background or any other area on the map that would require logic on the CPU to be calculated, the graphics thing is so costly on the CPU in these circumstances of this 2.5.6 OpenBeta build (+2 hotfixes). Please note this camcorder video is not completely in sync stats wise with the WPA analysis below, the CPU numbers will not match (higher), but they show exactly the same thing, because there was 25% CPU activity in the background from another process I forgot to close so the whole camcorder thing was kinda all for nothing, I use a digital camera whenever I want to avoid any CPU interference from software recoding utilities, however because the CPU cost was only on one thread and always constant (taking 1 full thread at all times) I think the demo is still valid because the proportions of the drops and spikes should still be the same so stuck with it because I just didn't want to redoit yet again it's very tedius and timeconsuming to setup the camera (angle, height, position, not hit it and ruin the shot) ... I want to get the hell out of the house to some spring weather already :) You can see, going from slowest GPU speed to the highest, CPU cost is ~50%, So people who invest in a much better GPU over the CPU are wasting a lot of that GPU because it needs the CPU to feed it, ofcourse if you wait long enough until Vulkan API rendering then I guess okay.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=265709 Okay, generally for all of my posts, if there does sound like I have an attitude then I apologize it wasn't meant, it's partially due to my skewed english writing when I'm in a hurry, but I try to do best. Sorry about my sort of rant on the Task Manager because I again recently got into this whole thing about it while learning the tools I discovered only recently, much late than I should have. The number of objects is not it sorry. Drawcalls range from 300-5000 in DCS roughly, if you have a lot more units those maximums will be higher ofcourse, you'll get the maximums particularly in the case this thread is about, and on the F10 Awacs view in ALT mode under certain zoom conditions. The minimums are ofcourse when viewing the clear sky and/or sea, there's not much going on there, and object (airplane) can have hundreds of draw calls. Draw Calls Numbers Detailed: Pretty big change after they spawn, and when you view them up close. How much optimization room while using the same API there is that's what I can't tell you, or whether it shouldn't take that much and there's a bug somewhere. A draw call can cost different amount of GPU time, as we seen with Black Smoke, that's all in 1 draw call (1 for each engine, disregarding parallel drawindexed ones), tho the CPU cost of these draw calls is I think the same irrespective of the time it takes for the GPU to finish a draw call but don't hold me on that one. Additionally. I've uncovered another potentially huge thing while doing these tests, related but not limited to this, a general thing across the board, so the thread title fits well and I've posted it right here. Occlusion Culling is either broken or not implemented? https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Rendering/VisibilityCulling/index.html What does this mean, everything behind the object that is blocking your view is still being rendered, for nothing. I have noticed this in the past but it was extremely subtle but never kinda thought more or went looking deeper (that there's some rendering going on that isn't on the screen), I noticed more of that when doing SpeedTree LOD testing but since I didn't finish that completely and there was a bunch of things going on I didn't get to that. This may be the same for trees, this means you're spending drawing all those trees that are behind the first layer of trees ... Also, I have yet to test (if I even can) whether the objects are being rendered fully, even the far sides of that that you can never see in any situation anyway, hopefully that's not the case but should be made sure. NO CULLING (Result: Probably every PC would lag out) VIEW FRUSTUM CULLING OCCLUSSION CULLING

Interesting yeah I have also noticed some campaigns not continuing, I think the JTAC procedure was different than what tutorials had and I kinda felt I was stuck or I just didn't learn JTAC properly. I'll try again later.

That's a valid argument, but I don't agree they should spend all resources on MP. I'm SP primairly and I always considered the MP component to be a tack-on and kinda still do but that's my personal thingy, I can't ignore and not appreciate the effort they put for dedicated server, so that's great certainly. But this MP being in the way it is isn't really anything new or a secret or even limited to DCS, all MPs are are relatively inaccurate except a few, how many errors is there in the scoreboards due to networking factors, a lot more than average players imagine, CSGO is some kind of PRO thing, well I didn't dug deep into that but I saw on LTT how the server/game process doesn't even run fast enough to detect things above certain FPS, and hitboxes are like still just boxes and not high-fidelity outlines that match the geometry/animations. So it's natual that the MP component will be rewritten from ground up, it's well known within the industry MP is very hard, it's not just some "netcode", that's a legacy term that stuck, probably originates from programmer slang, which I think has a much lesser connotation that downplays the complexity of what MP code of today is and is required to be. To get an idea here's a dev talk but ofcourse only the general things are relevant, engine specific things ofcourse don't count necessairly. (i just hope this isn't considered "competitor", there's just a logo but no paid products AFAIK, primarily tech talk)

But timing and planning to take the best out of the sunlight and sun-skin exposure so that you get enough of the hugely imporant vitamin D3 for the immune system. Sometimes it's cloudy/rainy for a week, a 30 minute window of good mid-day sunlight is enough but if you don't pay attention you can miss it quickly.

Overblown or not, peparation at all times is the surest way, health and immune system is a dynamic thing and you can ruin or improve it quickly if you do a mistake or two or you know what you're doing. Tho, wishes and hopes won't do it alone, what you eat matters the most, do you eat healthy, do you eat correct foods? Do you know which are bad carbs and good carbs? Is your food overcooked and devoid of nutrients? Does the food contain a mix of digestion-confusing ingredient types such as a mix of fats and sugars? People with good immune system? Who are they, so simple, it's people who eat well first and foremost, eating for nutrition and not for taste. Then it comes exercise, which is said to be and I also agree, overrated, you don't need to marathon for 15 miles per day and get totally exhuasted, that's just going to drain the minerals/vitamins through excretions requiring you to increase the intake which in such a scenario would be short to come by. Good walk or two per day can do it enough, movement throughout the daily chores is good but not enough alone, avoiding sitting for long period of time (computer chair and desk should be as comfortable as possible) especially in a forward leaning(TV, screen) position where digestion system is pinched this may block it from working properly, then if you happen to have some storage bags to punch into you can even improvize a boxing ring sort of in the basement, that'll be a good exercise if you move your whole body around, it's more about movement and balanced muscle contraction/extension to keep the lymph system moving so that it does not accumulate waste, but most importantly to keep the digestive tract working at optimum capacity and prevent waste buildup and delayed excretion, so avoid pure lifting and strenght exercises, and more movement to also get oxygen intake. Laying down in bed for 15 minutes a few times a day may also help to relax and improve digestion and keep immune system going, but NOT sleep, must not interfere with the sleep cycle. Stress can lower the immune system quickly and alot, if you got the required info and stuff you need there's no need to watch repeated TV drama over and over, that just adds to stress, even if you don't feel it, I rather read the key information from a paper that is devoid of emotions rather than listening to a dramatic TV anchor. A stroll to the woods is a very good idea, or at least park, proximity of trees should offer bettery oxygen concentrations and purity than the household air where CO2 and particulates accumulate, that's just a no brainer, but the medical profession fails to mention many of these basics. When you actually get sick, eating a lot per and every day is discouraged because it takes energy to digest, that's why preparation is key that you are well fed and nutrition rich before you get sick, after than you can practice periods of more liquid foods such as lemon water and homemade soups out of chicken or beef and avoid carbs and sugar, you get the minimal required sugars and carbs in lemon and vegetables anyway, otherwise when the body does get hungry for carbs (sluggish mental capacity, sleepy) then potatoes and rice should fit the bill completely, don't need any pastas, wheat or grain products (gluten), pastry, breads and all the packaged snacks. Sugar is the infection's best friend forever. Sickes may take a week or even two, for the body to defeat and possibly develop partial immunity, food will be required, can't go for 2 weeks on that low diet, but that doesn't mean you need to gorge on meat, you need proper fats as well, but you need to know what is proper fat in the first place, it's well known that vegetable oils are chemically processed to the point they may be completely unnatural and possibly unhealthy due to transfats which is finally being acknowledged by the mainstream medical profession, and we got laws last year severely limiting transfat contents for the industry. But still the veg oils are produced using heat or bleach extraction, chemically modified such as hydrogenation, it's just not the kind of food by it self. There is exception with cold pressed extra virgin olive oil but still depends if it's fake or not, a lot of fakery out there, scammers will not bother with the effort/time/expenses it takes with the proper extraction methods. Coconut oil has shown time and time again it's benefits and almost no side effects, there was a study recently that was about Soybean Oil and found it's pretty bad and they had other oils for comparison, Coconut did not have noticable ill effects. But still not all coconut is the same, there are fakes again, extracted improperly, refined and processed, I found only 1 brand directly from a local producer down in Sri Lanka where it's made and packaged there and sent over in bottle, usually coconuts are brought raw and shelled, transported, opened up in facilities in europe and then processed and packaged here, I found the taste of those to be modified and one was particularly bad it tasted and had a totally different feel to it, as if they added something in the mix, the taste had a chemical-feel to it and consistency more like silicone. Immunity is kinda a sort of intelligence file right, at least that's what I believe is going on, the body knows what this enemy is and has experience fighting it, knows it's weaknesses, but immunity still takes ammunition right, the biggest point everyone's missing, nutrition is ammunition, what does it do good if you only have a great intelligence file with the flight plan if you lack the ammunition or nutrients which are required to complete the mission or create white blood cells (infantry) and other viral/bacterial fighting substances, then you're in big trouble.

Note: This report includes the unofficial use of DXVK with DCS to enable AMD RGP to function with DCS. RGP only supports next generation graphics APIs. Therefore the information here may not 100% accurately represent the official circumstances. Performance variations and bugs may be present that wouldn't exist otherwise. Using DXVK may or may not have a performance impact, but it should not magically increase performance or any kind of improved multithreading. There would have been an additional graph if there was async compute and/or multithreading involved as well as more CPU threads, but there is only one in the driver. I believe the changes in this case are minimal, no noticable change in FPS versus the DX11 official scenario so far, same drop happens. Additionally, the tools and it's terminology are all Vulkan based, so you're not suppose to take these literally because in DX11 it's quite a bit different, but I think it is valid for comparing DXVK to DXVK results and their relevancy is only valid if these performance ups/downs are also present with official DX11 cases, if I see major game behavior change due to DXVK then the comparison/test wouldn't even be considered for any serious report, if smaller things happen it will be appropriately marked. More of a overview/statistical report that may be more relevant to most players around here: The scenario: F-18C Barebone Over Open Sea+Sky very far away in Caucasus map. NO SMOKE -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- BLACK SMOKE -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- HIGH ALTITUDE WHITE CONTRAIL SMOKE No valid test possible, the smoke is bugged

Sorry I don't have F-16C, check out my threads/posts in the general bugs and performance issues section you'll get an idea that may help you.

Yeah I mixed it up watching some other pictures, sorry about that I was going to look up your CPU and correct the post, I realized I was wrong shortly after posting it, but forgot before I went to sleep, it was evening and I had to prevent again from spilling into late nights, I'm a bit of exhausted after all the previous testing so sorry about that. Heh, usually it's expected to leave things default when doing an initial test/report, if there's just one, and then with modifications to compare, you might have told us about that earlier, but no biggie because 3 cores is right about where DCS should work fine except disk I/O reads which apparently can around 10 threads in some cases (depends on the MAP, I have a thread about that pending so I won't go into it now) You are thinking into the right direction yes. But don't do conclusions, perf/troubleshooting is like one of those things that it's good to have "current opinion" that can change the more you look and dig into it. Yes depending on the subject it may or may not be map specific (to a certain degree) looks like this one is not, but I haven't done any tests outside NTTR yet. Map terrain graphics code and disk loading thing is the more map specific thing I see for example. Sure sure, that's why I'm here, this isn't for everybody but it's a lot of fun for me for some reason, I also want to know for myself anyway, and why not share my findings, no that developers desperately need it but also as a community thing, so you should stick around to at least get an idea so when you have something to report later on you'll know the procedure how to do a good report, this is all in the FAQs anyway so I'm not saying anything new, most people that report don't produce any video or picture, I'll probably do a tutorial on how to make a good video, the problem is running OBS to snap a video interferese with CPU usage which can affect DCS if the user has only 4 cores or a slow CPU in general, some of the stuff I had to go back to using a digital camera to record because of this. In the end it is still helpful to get closer to it than not I think, even for the developers. And it's not that things aren't known, new people come by here and do a report and they're off back to playing again so it's just that the tools aren't well known out there and I'm upset at my self it took me this long to figure this out how deceptive the numbers and simple utilities can be. Good, except tho I don't know why the sysinfo keeps being a bit broken, videomem either showing something else or now it's not working at all, but the term simulation is also a bit vague, there's probably a huge load of stuff in that moniker. I don't know where you see drawcalls there, they're not showing in the DCS SYSInfo, but yes that's the usual suspect most of the time.

Hello I'm quite in a need for strikethrough text, since we deal with a lot of inaccuracies when doing troubleshooting and I keep making mistake, it would help getting some clarity in those situations, is it possible around here, and if not could it be added without some major forum code intervention? Thanks

^^ That was a general comment, if necessary, I indicated that with dashed lines, if he already knows it the better. (Extraordinary? I don't think you seen many of my posts around here ;) [btw I don't endorse some of it, wall of text written in a hurry is a bad habit] Ofcourse the time is apprectiated and the info provided is good enough for the first steps, I wouldn't want to see you guys frustrated and confused with some of the readings so that's why I don't hesitate to get to the point. However, it is very important you need to stay at the same exact point/camera angle/distance when doing screenshots. But screenshot is also not a video. Troubleshooting/Performance testing is a big big pain in the butt, it's not that easy, it seems my talk is harsh, I'm doing you a favor by rather telling you what's ahead, but at the same time I'm here to help however I can, this was just the initial post as I'm readying up to test. The above video is sort of a constant reminder, for my self as well, it's good to know that phenomenon ahead, or else it can lead to confusion down the line. EDIT: Also, you can't compare just between maps and base the conclusion there, they have different levels of tech behind them, different CPU behavior and threading, compare NTTR to NTTR.

Warning: Task manager does not tell you about the threads. What the video demostrates is that a single thread can due to OS thread scheduler normal activity jump around multiple-cores at a high rate, too fast for a human to be able to notice and loss of accuracy due to sampling interval and averaging of the results, creating the same/similar kind of data/visuals (illusion) as if there were more threads using up those cores, (eg each thread per core as it's the usual assumption by the average user). Infact that 1 thread kept in practice only using up 1 core, it never gained any boost whatsoever by jumping between cores, infact if the jump to another core includes a lot bigger distance onboard the chip it self like the AMD's CCX then there will be a latency penalty due to having to copy the cache of the previous core to a new core, (don't quote me on this one right now, it's something like this) and even a greater latency penalty if the move involves having to go to another CCD, and in the future we will be seeing a lot more of these new chiplet designs where more smaller dies will be used, but this really shouldn't worry an average player that much. The thread has a poor title, it seems like it's general, but it's a specific case and VR. Anyway I'll see what it looks like here but I'm 2D not VR. --------------------- If it is the AI, in context usually meaning only the "AI logic" which shouldn't be that costly compared to the rest, there may be AI calculations going on those parked AIs, or someone's radar/sensors interacting with them. I'll see what I can do, but keep your tests very identical people, you need to snap a screenshot at exactly the same place when comparing, it'll take some more effort setting a test case up but it's vital for accurate readings.

Okay okay what if someone happens to blast full afterburner at the severed nozzle ??? Still no? Otherwise yeah I have stretched my imagination on this one (darn Die Hard 2), perhaps no need to go that far as to the whole air-fuel-rain-humidity-temp simulation haha, reading the super-rushy post I wrote makes me dumb now. Now this may not be scientific, may not be even the fuel type military uses ... but hey pay attention to the little sprayer at 2:30 minute mark, if that can do it, the rush out of the nozzle at 500 knots should as well rigth?

I don't think I said anything about "50%" specifically, everything was meant in general, I haven't tested anything yet around this issue. Depending on your activity within DCS, different components will take different amount of CPU mostly from the one thread, if that one CPU can't keep up it may even stall out the whole process and thus introduce stutter because of the process it self is being frozen and it doesn't really matter what FPS is or can be at that point of the execution is stopped. There's many types of stutters, CPU, GPU, File I/O, ... there's a thread I was trying to finally complete about the File I/O terrain loading and threading, but it's it's own thing that's not directly related to other issues, but it is related to overall performance experience. Bah, I thought you were the OP talking to me ... the explanation still relevant tho. So if the Wake adds a level of logic, it may take a big chunk to put the CPU usage over the edge in that scene with a lot of aircraft == a lot of airplanes interacting with a lot of wakes.

I agree, but I also disagree with removing things away strict even if possible in reality but happens to not be a "common practice by XYZ branch of the military". Some things were removed off F/A-18C or something, perhaps okay for Lot 20, when we have a higher Lot then those weapons should be available there.

You'll never get 100% accurate in a simulator unless you have the full feature clearance and manufacturer involvement with actual live tests and sensors installed on the missle to capture things from top to bottom, among many other things. Well, full feature in terms of flying, doesn't mean they would need to disclose warhead details, so this may actually work, still sensetive but perhaps less.

Sorry, your CPU usage falls down because the GPU can't keep up in GPU bound cases and so the CPU can't give the GPU that much work, and because the legacy GFX APIs depend on CPU spoon-feeding the GPU. Another way is that the CPU is busy with some part and other things wait for that to finish so the CPU can't feed the GPU and since GPU is dependant it also falls down in FPS. Vulkan API and newer APIs deal with graphics work differently, they do proper multi-threading, async compute, it makes graphics much much less dependant on CPU. Acceleration is just ... it's more of a hack in a way, I tend to avoid it completely when troubleshooting or performance testing.

Blinded by the light! In seriousness, this may be an actual thing if CA let's you control the WW2 Searchlights manually ... and it would need to be coded so the AI responds with retreat or lessened accuracy. BTW: You should have put this in Chit-Chat.

I'm sure it's being noted and worked on, just like this manual was probably being worked on for like a year worth of time.

Indeed that's what everyone thinks the idea is ... but the manual makes more questions now.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/dcs_user_manual/ ^^ Needs to be updated by webstaff It's really detailed, but I can see it's probably combined with russian translation, which isn't a big deal, except I'll look for cases where it's really off, one part I found here: ( I'll post when I find such cases, didn't read the whole thing yet ofcourse) Well ... this section kinda doesn't make sense to me, or I don't understand english enough? I'm not sure what "through the frame" means, I never heard that phrase (but I'm not a real dev) Could be that the "Frame" may mean somehting else as in outline in Russian. But nah, it makes sense that "Every Frame" means that every frame you get an update on the displays. I think the issue is more with "Through the frame", how can you update the display while a frame is being rendered?