Northstar98

Hi everyone, With the release of the Kola map, there's a particular aircraft that's currently absent from DCS' roster that I feel would really help flesh out the region for the Cold War era (as well as giving us a Cold War era Soviet bomber that would fit well into the mid and late Cold War period). Primarily, the variants I'm interested in are the: Tu-16K-10-26 [Badger-C Mod] / Tu-16K-26P (KSR-2-5-11) [Badger-G Mod] - these are primarily maritime strike aircraft, armed with long-range anti-ship missiles. The main difference is that the former has a large, long-range radar in its nose and can fire the K-10 [AS-2 Kipper] anti-ship missile. The latter has a glazed nose, typical of bombers of its era and while it can't fire the K-10, it can fire the KSR-2 and -11 [AS-5 Kelt]. Both are able to fire the KSR-5 [AS-6 Kingfish] and both (albeit with the Tu-16K-10-26B version for the former) have conventional bombing capability. Tu-16RM-1 [Badger-D] - this is a maritime reconaissance version which is similar in appearance to the Badger-C (if you were to take the Badger-C, add a couple of radomes to the underside and delete the hardpoints for missiles, you'd be pretty much there). It lacks offensive armament. Tu-16P [Badger-J] - this is an electronic warfare aircraft designed to act as a strike escort. Obviously this would mostly just be decoartive without EW improvements to DCS. Externally it's fairly similar to the Badger-G (if you took the G, deleted the missile hardpoints and added a canoe-shaped radome along with 4 small air intakes to the bottom of it, you'd be pretty much there), like the Badger-D, it would lack offensive armament. The units on the Kola map basing the Tu-16 are the following: 5th Maritime Missile Aviation Division (5th MRAD): 924th Guards Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment (924th GvMRAP) - Tu-16K, Tu-16P. Based at Olenegorsk (previously at Severomorsk-1). 987th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment (987th MRAP) - Tu-16K. Based at Severomorsk-3. 967th Independent Long-Range Reconaissance Aviation Regiment (967th ODRAP) - Tu-16K-10-26, Tu-16RM. Based at Severomorsk-1. Each aviation regiment having something like 30-40 aircraft each (at least circa 1990). For the former, we would be missing appropriate weapons for them, see the spoiler below:

+1 it's also arguably the most appropriate adversary for upcoming modules like the F-4E. I'd also extend this to the MiG-27K, which as far as the Kola map is concerned, was actually based at Olenegorsk.

You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm not after functional naval units placed by default on the map. I haven't implied that anywhere. I'm after empty harbours, without purely decorative ships and submarines. Instead of making models and using them for non-functional, purely decorative ships and submarines, make them into static objects, or even better, functional naval units. That way: I can place stuff where I like, without needing to bother myself with deleting scenery objects, which may result in adjacent scenery objects being removed unintentionally. I can more easily utilise these objects as mission objectives and for triggers, having them directly impact gameplay. We have more assets to flesh out scenarios.

I'm sorry, but I totally agree - this is very disappointing. It has utterly failed to capture the look of the landscape - if you'd have told me this was the Caucasus map, I would've believed you. And this is supposed to be within the high-detailed area! For our most recent map, for the price, I'm sorry but this is deal-breakingly bad for me. It's such a shame.

Yes, I know scenery object ships and submarines aren't functional. The point is that, instead of being made into a non-functional, purely decorative scenery object, they should be made into a functional naval unit or a static object we can place.

Yes to the naval bases but I'm going to give a no to non-functional, purely decorative, scenery object ships and submarines: It's a lot easier to add stuff in the mission editor than to delete a scenery object (especially as that can sometimes result in collateral damage, deleting other objects in the vicinity unintentionally - if I want to replace a scenery object submarine with one from naval units or static objects, I'll first have to delete the scenery object, which will likely delete the pier it's moored to and I probably won't be able to delete one without deleting the other. Scenery object ships and submarines typically don't have damage models EDIT: actually, on most maps, there's an alive state and a dead state but that's it (on this map though, at least from what I've heard (barge of salt) this doesn't seem to be the case on this map), unlike static objects or naval units. If you were to do a mission where you're to strike a ship or submarine in port, you'd be better off using a static object or a naval unit (they're also easier to work with and provide greater flexibility as far as triggers are concerned). Scenery object ships and submarines should ideally instead be functional units that directly impact gameplay.

Fair enough, this is early days yet, we'll see what happens Yeah, the main problem for me there is that it's difficult to add extra detail while maintaining readability as some formatting options (unless there's something I'm massively overlooking) isn't present. Though I do agree that it would be better if it was here instead of somewhere else.

I'm just comparing what I'm seeing on the coastline on the Kola map, with what I see on the South Atlantic map - the chopped off coastline is exactly what happens around the SA map. Personally, I'm speaking from experience here - flying low and slow in a helicopter this stood out to me like a sore thumb on the South Atlantic map. Of course mileage may vary and there's definitely a non-zero probability that I am being pedantic about this. Obviously I don't own the map, so I'm going purely off of what I see, but unfortunately I'm not quite with you on the assessment, particularly with the coastlines. Don't get me wrong, I have seen stuff I like, but right now there's enough I don't like to put me off, which is quite a shame.

This particular screenshot looks very rough - the similarities with the South Atlantic map are quite striking. The coastline in particular - I'm sorry, but that looks pretty awful. The South Atlantic has the exact same problem. It doesn't look natural at all, I'd say it's fairly immersion breaking and is definitely a bad look for a map in 2024 with the pricetag it has. To make it worse, a lot of aerodromes in Norway are immediately adjacent to the coast or have their approach paths overflying it, where this is going to be very visible (see the spoiler for the list. Not to mention all the targets that are also along the coastline. What a shame, that's very disappointing.

Just a couple I found on a quick search: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3309067/

Bo-105 is coming. Some variant of the Black Hawk (UH-60A or L would be my pick) would be fantastic.

Here's a fragment of my .kmz showing air defence sites. I haven't done Sweden (and it's a nightmare finding them, the Finnish ones are also in that camp, but I have found a few, mostly completely by accident). My full .kmz is an expansive list of POIs, not just showing where stuff is but in some cases I've included large descriptions (see the spoiler for an example) all referenced. Kola Air Defence Sites Temp.kmz

Here's the fragment of mine (the full thing is incomplete and has far more scope than just SAM sites) containing the locations of Soviet SAM and EWR sites (I have included descriptions and links to reference material in each entry). Note that this is incomplete, it currently lacks Sweden (which is a pain the backside for finding some of this stuff, the Finnish stuff I only found mostly through sheer blind luck). Kola Air Defence Sites Temp.kmz

That's quite disappointing - for the price of this map I'd maybe expect a little more, this certainly isn't a trivial detail for me. At least it would be good to have the clear, empty areas where the terrain topology is suitable for placing units (i.e. not up silly inclines, not LOS blocked from directions where they shouldn't). Some generic SA-2, -3, -5 and -10 launcher and FCR revetment, arranged into a generic layout and then have that be copied and pasted across the entire map (sorta like Syria, but hopefully with a bit more scope, as Ugra only really did a few SA-2 sites). And finally, the ideal option is where sites are recreated as accurately as possible. OneReTech seems to have had a go at doing this and aside from maybe the orientation of the launch revetments, this is perfect and is exactly what I'm talking about. Now that's very disappointing. It sounds like the Kola map is suffering from PG-map-iritis when it comes to these. I think I'll definitely be holding out purchasing the map (even if the area hold a tonne of interest for me), until these sites are useable as is. EDIT: If you don't mind, could you also test out the HAWK sites in Norway? I've found at least 2 of them and I know Orbx has definitely modelled one of them but I couldn't tell if the trees interfere with it. One of them is located on the grounds of Bodø Main Air Station, at 67°15'49"N, 14°21'00"E. See here for a satellite image. HAWK sites in Norway appear to be configured as a platoon rather than a battery (i.e. they have 1 fire section (with 3 launchers)). The launchers would be the 3 circular pads to the west, the FCR would've likely gone here. The other is on the island of Andøya, 4 nmi to the SSW of where the airbase should be, adjacent to some former military base (69°14'00"N 16°02'36"E). See here for a satellite image.

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I mean, they're pretty much all extent, their layouts are very clearly visible in satellite imagery. The ones that are long gone were likely WW2 left-overs that weren't around during the Cold War. As it stands for unannounced airbases in Russia/RSFSR: Afrikanda (V-PVO airbase) Koshka Yavr (staging airbase for Tu-16 and Tu-22M) Umbozero (staging airbase for Tu-16 and Tu-22M) Khariusnyy (staging airbase for Tu-16 and Tu-22M) Taliy Ruchey (Reserve airfield for maritime reconaissance aircraft) Luostari (Army Aviation) Apatity (Army Aviation) Severomorsk-2 (shipborne helicopters and SAR) Kirovsk Most of these we have aircraft for - Afrikanda based the MiG-15, -17 and -19 (though Su-27s are pictured here, AFAK they were actually stationed at Kilpyavr, where they can be seen in satellite imagery), the AI Tu-22M3 fits on the staging airbases, the Tu-142 fits on Taliy Ruchey, the Hind fits on Luostari and Apatity, the AI Ka-27PL fits on Severomorsk-2 etc.

EDIT: Looks like I was sniped by AdrianL https://orbxdirect.com/product/orbx-kola-dcs

Yeah, same. I'd take an AI one at this point - we already have its Soviet/Russian counterpart with the Su-24M as an AI aircraft. And if it's AI, with a little bit of copy and paste and some very minor tweaking, you could also get an F-111E, which at least according to this, the 55th TFS were to use Andøya on the upcoming Kola map as a wartime base.

Unfortunately not having much luck - I've been attempting to make it a mod, but can't get it to appear in the unit list. Can't find any problems in the DCS.log, not sure what I'm doing wrong, though again I've never done it before so I'm probably making stupid errors. It would be excellent if it could be made an official unit though @BIGNEWY, @NineLine

Unfortunately, somewhat. As it stands we only have a quarter of the larger Norwegian airbases - we're missing Andøya, Bardufoss and Evenes. The former is of particular relevance during the Cold War, basing 333 Skvadron RNoAF with P-3B, N and C Update III Orions (and initially, the SHU-16B Albatross). At least according to this, the USAF were to also use it as a wartime base for the 71st, 356th and 55th TFS w/ 24 F-15Cs, 18 A-10As and 24 F-111Es respectively (though no idea how they'd manage to fit all that at Andøya, presumably they'd be dispersed to other airbases). Russia/RSFSR is also quite light and the known airbases scheduled for a later update are still quite light. We're missing: Most of the arctic staging bases for Tu-16s and Tu-22M3s - we'll be getting Olenya/Olenegorsk at initial release, but we're still missing Koshka Yavr, Umbozero and Kharusniy. We're getting one of the main airbases used by the V-PVO (Monchegorsk), with another later down the line (Kilpyavr) but so far the remaining one (Afrikanda) hasn't been announced. We're getting one of the helicopter bases used by the VVS AA, but we're missing 2 others - namely Luostari (the closest airbase to the Norwegian border) and Apatity/Kirovsk South. Severomorsk-2, which was chiefly used to base shipborne helicopters when they're not embarked. Sweden is chiefly missing Luleå and Vidsel, but both are supposed to be coming in a future update (I just hope they both have their road runways present in a useable state).

We're supposed to be getting Luleå (this is supposedly the planned extent of the map and Luleå was mentioned in the newsletter announcing it), so that covers the Antnäs, Vidsel and Långträsk

Stormbirds managed to save a few screenshots: https://stormbirds.blog/2024/04/28/thirty-seconds-of-dcs-kola/ Though the now private video didn't really show us a whole lot.

Here's an unlisted (EDIT: It's now been privated ) teaser found in the DCS playlist on Orbx's YouTube channel: Unfortunately the trailer is a little light when it comes to showing us the map. Some shots though do look a little rough (though personally I'll take accuracy over texture resolution), with textures that maybe look a bit generic-looking, though this is a common issue with DCS maps - none of them really look all that photo-realistic or particularly natural-looking. The trees around the HAWK site at Bodø look like they'll interfere with the launchers somewhat: Also looks like the AN/FPS-129 HAVE STARE is the generic radome to be used across the map. As I've said before - not a fan of purely decorative radars at all, these should (well, maybe not these exact ones) be functional units.

Vidsel definitely - I'll try and dig up a bombing range used for aviation as the one around Luostari/Pechenga are more for things like tanks for the nearby garrison based in Pechenga, Luostari and Sputnik. I guess there's nothing stopping you from using it as a bombing range though.