Donut

So I know we have discussed this to death and are all aware that HB is working on the FM, acceleration, and drag issues. I ran a few more acceleration tests for the heck of it though from Mach 0.5 to 0.8 and this time included the F-14A. I am not going to go in depth with the testing and results, but what I did find is that both the A and B Tomcats had the exact same times/acceleration. Maybe the addition of the A messed something up or both the A and B are using the same FM right now...just more food for thought.

Yeah, not too surprising while clean, but no way of telling without HB acknowledgment on this...they seem to have disappeared lately though from posts concerning the FM. I tested this as well and get the same results. As draconus pointed out, I find it interesting that the drop tanks seem to have an appropriate drag effect here, while as in my test from another post, they don't.

Internal sound improvement is listed on HB's Public Roadmap so this and other issues should be fixed.

When it happens for me, I can no longer click on anything with my mouse. It has been happening for almost two months now...hope to see a fix "soon"

I have been experiencing this as well. It started ever since the 2.7 patch. It seems random, was worse until the 2.7 update last week, but still occurs now and then with a Tomcat mission reload. No crash file and the PC needs to be restarted.

No offense taken, and I agree with you. In no way did I think my "tests" should drive any type of FM change. In a way, it was just to satisfy my own strange (and maybe unhealthy) fascination with acceleration as a performance metric...similiar to 0-60 times between a Porsche and Ferrari. You are right in that I should remain optimistic with hope that HB is already well aware of what my test showed (even if unscientifically), and have already addressed the discrepancies with payload configurations and drag.

My concerns are not about ACM. It's just the basics...does the Tomcat accelerate as it should, does drag/weight have an appropriate effect on the aircraft? This all of course does influence ACM, for example; if you get to the merge guns only and jettison your tanks...my test shows that the aircraft loses performance. The posts that I "selectively" chose tend to underplay the issue as if the FM is close to being accurate...which right now seems to be far from true. Nobody from HB has acknowledged my test or if there is indeed an issue with drag/weight being incorrectly applied to a clean jet or that drop tanks drag/weight seems to have an opposite effect. To me, these are big issues. We are already over two years into this...I don't think anyone wants to go any further without finally having the FM correct.

I am just concerned that they are unaware of all the issues. Take a look at the following comments below...if my test results are accurate, there seems to be a significant problem with the FM, drag and/or thrust. These comments make it seem that there is no issue and somehow my results are incorrect.

I just hope the FM is considered a major feature and not a bug for EA. There are numerous posts since release pointing out the problems with the FM...for me the biggest issue being it's lack of thrust/acceleration compared to real life charts and performance. I wouldn't consider the Hornet out of EA until it's FM is spot on accurate as possible/allowed.

Why did this place become a ghost town after my posts about my updated tests and results?

Huh? My OP never mentions climb rate or turn rate. While the answer is complex, my question seemed straightforward, "Is the F-14B engine and drag modeling correct and the acceleration seen in DCS true to life?" Of course, the modeling of the engine thrust and drag on the Tomcat will greatly influence climb and turn rates as well, buy I was just testing basic straight and level acceleration. I suggest reading all the posts... a lot was discussed. My last two posts which contain further testing raises a question about the Tomcat's current drag modeling.

In follow-up to my test results yesterday, I decided to run a few more tests today for verification and to add a few more loadouts. Testing parameters: Clear day, no wind, 59F, 29.92. Aircraft start airborne at the end of the runway at Nellis, 300 TAS, 500 ft AGL. Full internal fuel (unless otherwise noted), full afterburner. TAS (as displayed in the infobar) is then recorded as the aircraft crosses the end of the runway. I ran each test 10 times to get an average speed. F-14B Tomcat Pylons: 539 TAS Pylons w/ 50% Internal Fuel: 566 TAS No Pylons: 539 TAS No Pylons with 50% Internal Fuel: 566 TAS Double Fuel Tanks: 550 TAS Double Fuel Tanks w/ 50% Internal Fuel: 574 TAS AIM-9x2, AIM-7x3, AIM-54x2, Double Fuel Tanks: 529 TAS AIM-9x2, AIM-7x2, LANTIRN, GBU-12x2, Double Fuel Tanks: 534 TAS My results show that there seems to be no drag/weight penalty from the pylons or a drag/weight reduction with no pylons. Also having the fuel tanks actually increases the aircrafts acceleration/speed... What I think could be happening here is that with no weapons/stores on the aircraft, drag/weight is incorrectly or not even applied. I am just guessing here but I would think all the speeds in my test are correct except that the Pylon/No Pylons speeds should be 560-580 TAS range or so. I will leave it to the more experienced, skilled, and educated on the forums and at HB to figure this out from here...

Yes, that is it...at least for me. It only happens with the Tomcat. It is a hard crash that doesn't create a crash log and I need to reboot since nothing is mouse clickable.

Roger that. Thanks for the help.

Back to my OP...I realized the error in my original testing method. I failed to account for raising of the gear/flaps, ground roll, and ground friction and how that all could alter the results. So, I performed another drag race test between the Tomcat and Hornet without all of those variables. Testing parameters: Clear day, no wind, 59F, 29.92. Aircraft start airborne at the end of the runway at Nellis, 300 TAS, 500 ft AGL. Full internal fuel, full afterburner. TAS (as displayed in the infobar) is then recorded as the aircraft crosses the end of the runway. I ran each test 10 times to get an average speed. F-14B Tomcat Pylons: 539 TAS No Pylons: 539 TAS Double Fuel Tanks: 550 TAS F/A-18C Hornet Pylons: 539 TAS No Pylons: 551 TAS C/L Fuel Tank: 524 TAS Double Fuel Tank: 511 TAS As you can see by my results, there seem to be something seriously wrong with how drag/external tanks effect the Tomcat's speed and acceleration. The Hornet's results appear exactly as you would expect...I of course do not know how those numbers correspond to real life and the performance charts, but the effects of drag seems to be acting appropriately on the Hornet. As of right now, there is no way to answer the question in my OP because it seems drag behavior on the Tomcat is completely off. I am interested to see if anyone can verify my results.

Yes, it happened again. dcs.log.old

Log attached, hope it helps. dcs.log.old

See edit to previous post...crashes still not as frequent as before though.

So far so good here as well after latest patch! Multiple mission reloads with Tomcat and Hornet...no crashes! Thank you ED for figuring this out, it didn't seem easy. ****ruh roh...spoke too soon*** I just experienced a hard crash, DCS not responding, not crash log created, had to reboot PC It happened after I did an Instant Action Mission in the Tomcat and then went to try and load a mission in the ME.

Roger that and thank you for the confirmation...it is what I have read as well and seems to be the most valid assessment considering the source in addition to what I have read in various other forums and documents. Hopefully we see the new FM soon!

Should we be posting crash logs here, or is sending the crash report to ED after a crash enough?

Nope, not just you...even worse with the latest patch. Crashes on game start, 2nd mission load, mission exit, etc. I spend more time now crashing and restarting than flying. 47 days now with no fix.

Good advice. HB has acknowledged that the FM is off and they are working on it. I guess we will wait and see what it does to acceleration. I never intended my OP question to turn into all of this...it was a yes or no question, which of course remains unanswered.

Interesting find...what was your DCS resolution before and why was it different than your screen resolution? Unfortunately, my DCS and screen resolutions match so this will not fix the cause of my crashes. Hopefully it helps others though.

Thank you for doing this. If what Victory205 and fat creason have said is true about how they test the FM...(HB only uses the instruments in the cockpit (which shows CAS) to test and verify against performance charts and not the info bar)...this clearly shows that they are incorrect and the Tomcat's performance is off...maybe way off.