imacken

Keeping the AI trim won’t work. For example, if you had your physical collective at, say, 30% when you transferred to AI, and its collective went to 80% through gaining height/speed before you took back control, what would happen? Your collective would take over 80% at the physical level of 30%, and that just wouldn’t work. No, as I see it, a ghost level for the collective to match position before the control transfer would be a good solution.

What version of the VPC software are you using? If the current one 20220304, then hopefully, you will have configured your idle detents the 'new' way so they are setup as 0% at idle, and coded for a hardware button past the idle for idle/shut off binding. Re AH-64, my method doing the finger lifts is a little weird, but it works. I originally had the right throttle set as the collective and the right one set as 'both engine power lever'. Split throttle axes can be awkward in flight, and I then realised that we hardly ever need to touch the power lever. So, I re-bound that to the rZ axis (lever on the right) and kept the 2 throttles bound together in-flight for the collective. I also have the finger lifts bound to the button beyond idle (as mentioned above), so to switch engines on/off, I pull the the 2 throttles past the idle detent and all is good. Seems weird that they are not on the power lever, but you only do it once at startup and again to switch off after landing, so it's no big deal. No real need to do that. Just set your 'Saturation X' value in 'Axis Tune' to a value that makes the throttle 100% at second detent, making sure it's set to Slider, of course. Best way to do that is to look at the slider graphic in DCS controls to see which value gives you the 100% full at the second detent. Mine is set to 74%. So, I have 0% to 100% between the 2 detents.

Yep, I think I'm comfortable with the way the trim system works now. (Except for the transfer when taking control back from George, but that's in another thread, and an EA thing atm, apparently.)

I have mine set to 4, and frankly, I can’t tell the difference with or without in practical terms.

Just have a good dead zone on the cyclic axis to avoid that issue. Re the more pressing collective issue, currently, what I am now doing, is looking at where the collective is on the Controls Panel and whenever I take control, I immediately put the throttle near that position. Far from ideal, but it works pretty well. Still, we need to find a better way. As I said before, I think this could be showing a 'ghost' level on the collective in the Controls Panel to match the physical position, which we could then match up to George's before taking back manual control.

If you look at this thread, I think I've solved the trim transfer issue when taking control FROM George, but the collective remains a big issue. However, just to repeat what I said there re trim: "However, with regard to trim, then that can be transferred, I've just noticed. If you keep the Control Display panel open you can see what happens. When control is taken back from George, you can see where the cyclic/rudder inputs are and also your centred ones marked with the red crosses. Now, just like normal trim, if you DON'T move your control from centre and press the trim button, your controls then take on what George was set to. So, I feel that is a non issue. However, it's the collective that is the issue. Maybe, as I said above, the collective input could be held until your physical collective reaches the same point, similar to trim. Now, that could be shown as a 'ghost' level on the Controls Panel until the correct position is reached."

OK, I think we're going to get confused with 2 threads going on this. Maybe @BIGNEWYcould merge them, but I'll link to this in your bug thread. I'm not sure why BN keeps talking about the transfer TO George when it's the transfer FROM that is the issue. However, with regard to trim, then that can be transferred, I've just noticed. If you keep the Control Display panel open you can see what happens. When control is taken back from George, you can see where the cyclic/rudder inputs are and also your centred ones marked with the red crosses. Now, just like normal trim, if you DON'T move your control from centre and press the trim button, your controls then take on what George was set to. So, I feel that is a non issue. However, it's the collective that is the issue. Maybe, as I said above, the collective input could be held until your physical collective reaches the same point, similar to trim. Now, that could be shown as a 'ghost' level on the Controls Panel until the correct position is reached.

I agree with what you say, but the rudder/cyclic transfer can easily be handled in the same way that trim is. i.e. the stick/rudder are centred after trimming, so the same could (should?) happen with transferring from George. Having the ctrl-enter control panel showing demonstrates all this perfectly. I also agree that the collective is more difficult to find a solution to, for the reasons you said. Maybe the collective input from George could remain the same until your physical stick reaches that point, and then it takes control?

Thanks but, as I said, it doesn’t have to be going to the back, it happens when you take control from George in the front as well. Same situation there. It doesn’t matter if it’s trim or control input, there should be some transfer of George’s input to avoid the situations I describe, especially in relation to the collective. A slight touch and you can be out of control! I don’t think you can see what position that is on screen before taking control apart from seeing the %age in numbers. We surely shouldn’t have to be guessing these inputs.

Sorry, force of habit, yes I meant collective! it makes no sense to me that George’s collective and trim positions are not carried over when you return to the pilot seat or take control in CFG. It’s illogical and creates uncontrollable situations. If George is not used, then trim and collective settings are passed between pilot and front seat.

I think - as some of you have been hinting here - the problem is definitely that George trim AND throttle settings are not carried over when taking back control of the aircraft. The trim thing has been discussed here, but I haven't seen mention of the throttle issue. Say, for example, you are in flight at around 80% throttle, then drop it down to 30% (could be anything), go to George and he stabilises back to around 80%. Then go back to pilot, touch the throttle, and you'll see it go to around 30% where it was when you left. As has been suggested here, surely, when transferring from George to aircraft control (pilot or CFG) the trim and throttle levels have got to be transferred as well. Otherwise, crazy things happen.

I was replying to @Swift. who did want it to go to the neutral position in a reset.

Sure, but I don't get why anyone wold want to trim back to the neutral position anyway. If you are in a trimmed situation, surely you just want to make minor adjustments.

Yep, I personally can't see what use a reset button would be. I mean why would you want that dramatic change of trim?

You can see the inputs on the Controls Panel overlay. As I said, when you take control in CPG, you have to immediately trim up BEFORE you move the stick/rudder at all. Otherwise, the trim gets reset and that causes the spinning effect.

I showed the Symbology binds as well as the Brightness ones.

OK, so I think it's mostly related to Force Trim and taking control when in CPG. I haven't worked it out exactly, but it's something like this. Show controls panel with ctrl-enter, go into a hover to a few hundred feet, force trim. Then, go to CPG. (The first thing I see is a change of heading, but that's another issue, I think.) Looking at the controls panel, you can see that the controls are untrimmed but do have the pilot trim showing. Then, press 'request aircraft control' button. Once that is done, if you do ANY movement on the cyclic or rudders, the trim resets and the Apache goes into a spin as it has lost the left rudder trim. To resolve this, after pressing 'take aircraft control', it is necessary to press Force Trim when the controls are centred to align with the pilot levels WITHOUT making ANY movement on the controls. It's difficult to do a track as there are so many things going on with controls etc. that are not obvious.

BN, can I ask, do you 'Request Aircraft Control' when in CFG?

As this seems to be unusable at the moment, I feel we must be doing something wrong, as even in EA, I doubt if this would have slipped through.

Sorry, but unless I misunderstand you, that's not the case.

Really don’t understand your point about this forum. It’s a very active place and easier for users to find and exchange info and solutions than Discord, imo. Still, I joined your group there and I’ll drop a message over there a bit later. Thanks.

Don, please see my post above yours to get it working manually.

Got it! Thanks a lot for that.

There is no 'VCP SYM BRT' axis command in the CP/G, so no way I can see to adjust the brightness of the display.