Jackjack171

Again, that's subjective and you know it. Just because you think you are right, doesn't make it so!

Nice graphic!

I'll buy that for a dollar brother! I recall @shagrat mentioning this.

I see what you are saying. I just didn't view it as trouble. Some feathers get ruffled and that's healthy, but at the end of it all, it's just go old back and forth!

You speak of fallacies a lot. It only seems to be as such when you decide it is. The same could be said about your points. Careful! Either way, the function for unlimited fuel is there. As for what people are asking for, I'll say this again, help was not what the OP was asking for. I'm all for a training mission or an aid. Knock yourself out! The OP's language sounded a lot like "do it for me". And I wouldn't burn down anyone's shed unless the jack wagon had a solid plan!

It's all good brother!

I'm not stepping away from anything bro. You shouldn't try and tell other what to step away from just because you don't like it. You can just not like what I have to say but that's not going to change anything. You didn't see me tell you to not post to the conversation did you? You do not own the forums brother! Your opinion is just that, yours! (took a page out of your book)The hand holding unlimited fuel option is there as you mentioned. All of a sudden it's not enough! Funny! We've been down this road before. This silly request has been asked ad nauseum! And still no easy AAR! But I'm here for it!

Respect! It's all good. This is just friendly convo! We all have lives outside of DCS (I hope) but nevertheless, there's nothing wrong with a little passion and banter among fellow simmers. I love this stuff!

Worrisome? Only to you maybe. But why worry, it's not worth it! In the last few decades of my service, which was only 3 years ago, the school of hard knocks exist and is very much used. It's funny that you are here on DCS which simulates Military action yet you have no clue about how we operate. I am fortunate enough to have the collegiate education as well as the school of hard knocks. The best of both worlds! And you didn't answer my question. Where you an instructor? If no then you cannot possibly speak on what's competent teaching and what's not! I've trained countless individuals in Military curriculum spanning 2 decades with a 100% completion rate covering topics from Aircraft firefighting to drug and alcohol counseling. So try again please and tell me what school you magically came up with and this idea about how teaching is done. It sounds like it is only your idea honestly. I've never heard of any teacher thinking the way you do. The slow guys that needed hand holding didn't make the cut, some went home. Some went to do other things. I mean, maybe you or your squad like to be spoon fed everything because it makes you feel better, but there are those of us that don't. I do like how you've become the speaker for the silent minority! Very noble, a waste of time but noble. The guys that want easy AAR should use the unlimited fuel option if it's too hard (why it's so hard is laughable mostly). That's the hand holding you mentioned that ED implemented for you all, so have at it! About the quote block, I didn't miss it! We all know who is replying to who here so there was no need for the italicized words bro. Kind of pointless! That's cool, I like little humor! Thank you for that much! Awesome conversation brother! I get that bro as I mentioned it earlier IRT the truly handicapped guys! But this thread isn't about that at all. And quite frankly, some dudes suck at formation flying. Go no further than YouTube and see for yourself! AAR is mostly form flying!

I didn't answer your question because it didn't seem like a real question but here it is: I really don't care how new people discover DCS. Not my bag! They either do it or they don't! Who said the school of hard knocks was antiquated? You? No bro, it's not. Like it or not, it's still there! Have you ever been an instructor? There's a line between teaching and hand holding. The latter is frowned upon. Your idea of hand holding is jacked up (misinterpreted). I mean, do you really need to be spoon fed for everything? The guys that needed hand holding got sent to do other things like, cleaning the head (restroom)! They were really good at that! I never said my idea of fun is watching pain. But I do cherish the lesson. Who's afraid of a little pain btw? It's a natural fact of life bro! What's with the italicized you's? I hope you are kidding dude! I need not desperately grasp at anything. Like I said previously, this is a conversation amongst men. I have my stance, you have yours. It doesn't change anything! At least not the way I feel about it. And who are you speaking for when you say no one cares? Who are these mystery people? Funny! You shouldn't assume dude! As for me, I don't care what others think about my views. I wouldn't have had the success in my career if I did. They are my views and that's not changing anytime soon! I respect you for yours but you have to do the same. There's nothing wrong with back and forth antics, I welcome it! And as far as you saying I have no argument, apparently there are others that agree with me, as do you. So there's that! I hope I answered your questions.

Bro, DCS has no shortage of new users. The forums and user files section proves that! DCS is not going anywhere anytime soon so don't go there man! Showing the ropes and hand holding do not go together! I know, I was an Instructor on active duty once upon a time! Trust me, you don't want to cross that very thin line! It's funny you used masochist. There is pain in learning, whether physically or mentally. Nothing wrong with that at all. In some cases, it's how you learn. I've seen the magic happen. And I don't recall asking for anyone's approval to speak here. If no one cares that's cool! This is a public forum dude! Just like you, I have my thoughts, you have yours. We can agree to disagree, but stop with that cupcake statement that no one cares. It's not a requirement to have anyone's ear or approval bro! Not for me anyway! I could say the same about you, but I won't go there because, why bother? This is a conversation, either reply or depart the pattern! It's cool either way bro! We just have to be respectful. I do agree with you about teaching tools. Not crutches or hand holding though. There's a difference! A thin line, but... And the beauty of our beloved sim is that you can try and try again. Die, respawn and go at it until you pass out! Wash, rinse, repeat!

If you'd read my other post, you'd know that's not the case bro. It's the attitude of the OP and others like it! I cannot nor would I try to enforce anything. That would be a waste of time! That being said, I stand by what I said. It is a real show of weakness and entitlement to not even try and then ask to be catered to. Point blank period! If a user is okay at being a quitter and doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to even try, that's on them. Since this is a forum discussion, I'm going to call it as I see it! I agreed that a training aid is great. Training wheels are not! And since we are having a discussion, that's my stance. Feel free to like it or dislike it. My points may have no meaning to you in particular, but some do agree! Why sign on to DCS and then whine about how hard it is? It's funny and sad at the same time. You don't learn by someone doing it for you, you do it or don't! Try harder even, but don't whine about it! This is at least the 3rd thread that I know of asking for the same thing. And if you read the forums long enough, you see it is not about needing help at all. It's simply ineptness! It's deplorable.

And yet we are here arguing it bro! That's the beauty of discussion. As far as ineptness goes, it's deplorable to say the least. I sure wouldn't want quitters on my team! No one should be catered to. Especially when it's only a minority doing all of the complaining. Cowboy up and own it if you can't hack it. But stop asking for an easy "A"! And I don't recall ineptness in the description. Study sim is just that, STUDY! Learn and apply, work hard! Easy like Sunday morning my friend!

The point is, if you are ready (in any imaginable form possible) you are, if you are not, your not! No, it's not a competition, but it is something that requires skill, knowledge and intestinal fortitude. I'm sure you understand that much bro! There's a lot of ineptness around here asking to be catered to. That's a very weak stance to take. Hand holding is akin to a common BS idea that everything is easy! I don't see much hand holding in DCS other than those asking for it! Read, learn, adapt, apply and overcome! It's not that hard bro! Tell that to Kanji club! JK, but tell that to the server guys slinging -120's everywhere. Seems pretty competitive to me in some cases.

I empathize with what you are saying about disabled dudes. But most of the time it's not that. The lazy part was not meant as a blanket statement that everyone who ask for help is lazy. It's the manner and reasoning behind why some of these guys ask, or flat out demand in some cases. If you read some of the request close enough, it's either "it's too hard" or "I don't have time" or some mix of it all. I can't show up to a weightlifting competition underweight and not ripped, then ask them to cater the entire event to me just because I wasn't ready! There was a user that was asking ED to dumb down settings somewhere once upon a time. Really? If I drive a Maserati and someone else drives a Prius, should I have to drive slower? I'm not rich. But I worked and saved (a pension helps too) and I made sure I got equipment that can handle DCS. If I had no money to play DCS properly, I just wouldn't or I would wait until I could. IJS

I kid you not, there was a guy asking for autopilot in one of the Warbirds forums. I fly the Spitfire, Jug and P-51 a lot so I forget exactly which one it was. I mean, what's next? Flying sharks with freaking laser beams? JK, but wow! You can't make this stuff up! It's the ultimate form of lazy, just shameful!

That's all fine and dandy but help is not what the OP was asking for. He was asking for an "out"! There's a difference in asking for help because you want to learn and asking someone to do it for you! At this point, I'd help him (or anyone else) if I thought I could but it is quite clear that the majority don't want help, they want it done for them. Aids are great bro! No denying that! But anything else is, a crutch really!

I've never used it. The most difficult platform for AAR for me was the F-14, and I'm good at it now. I just kept doing it! Frustrated and all, but it got done. Personally, I agree with you to a point. Dictating how others gameplay is not my bag. But the quitters attitude is just appalling! Some need a shot of testosterone! Some aren't even competitive in Air-to air combat! They just sling -120's all over the place. Why start something and not see it through? Why conduct a half arsed mission? Mind-blowing bro!

That's a big possibility! So sad!

I had to swirl it around in my head. You are correct! I'm all for a training aid, just not an out! That's the weakest thought process ever conceived! That's what the OP was wanting. If not, he needs to word it better. The other thing is, with all that's happening with DCS, wasting time on that just because some are too inept or lazy to do it, is really just catering to a very small majority that want easy street! There comes a time when you have to just cowboy up!

I'll buy that for a dollar! A Contact box would be a training aid brother. You got my ear!

The original OP called for this. I think this smells like laziness. One thing that I've noticed about these "groups" is that they are really good at learning radar operation, missile parameters and such but suck at basic airmanship. Some of these YouTube vids are horrible to watch. This is why it is difficult to take these request seriously. Selective frustration and an unwillingness to learn! IJS

I swear you are in my head bro!

That's it bro, stationary bikes for everyone! JK, but really, I needed a spot to get to 325 on the chest press. My trainer got me there by barely touching the bar. His words of encouragement and my will got me there. Never quit! I think better training aids are better than just an out!

Only when you are physically or mentally inept bro.