mazex

Like I wrote in some other thread I think that it would be rather easy to get a number of those War Thunder pilots over to a sim like DCS WWII if some "fast and fun" multiplayer modes are added. And yes, all the hard core sim enthusiasts here naturally frown at an idea like that by lets look at why study sims have become a small niche when obviously War Thunder that is very far from an all out console arcade game is so successful? I mean, War Thunder actually has a rather OK FM compared to the other arcade stuff we see with fancy looking Spitfires and gigantic explosions after one hit on PS3:s and Xbox:es. We "real nerds" feel that it's to "arcadish" and that the aircraft are not detailed enough etc - but it really is not THAT easy to be successful in War Thunder if you don't have a joystick and fly the planes with "real inputs", using rudders etc. So how hard would it really be for the people over there to fly a DCS plane instead? Probably not that hard, and after a while I guess they would appreciate that it behaves more realistic etc...? But - in my opinion we need a serious high fidelity simulator like DCS WWII with the OPTION to fly in "cheesy" fast multiplayer modes that the 3 million players seem to like? There should naturally be the "normal" historically correct missions with 30 minutes before you even see an enemy too! So - add the classic "Warbirds multiplayer mode" where you capture airfields by taking out the AAA and some other ground structures - and then drop paratroopers (the War Thunder mode of landing on a field to "capture it" is too cheesy for me at least). But don't copy the whole Warbirds concept there you have four sides with fancy colors that can use any plane etc. Have two sides with the correct equipment and planes. And for the D-Day scenario - how about making a multiplayer mode where the map displays a number of "choke points" (with clearly marked flags). After the landing of troops on the invasion beach the "flags" closest to the beach start flashing and if you click the flag while in map mode it shows a list of the targets that you need to take out to "take it" - with the status of the "sub targets". The targets should naturally not be flashing on the map in the standard mode - but what the heck, if the option is there and it seems that the "arcade bunch" likes it that way - why not? And when you have taken one "sector" the maps adjacent to that one starts flashing - and you can make strategical decisions about which one to focus on. Maybe add some rudimentary "support line" system so that sectors that are "cut off from supply" are easier to "capture"? And when a sector with an airfield gets captured you can "spawn" from that base? Yes - it is a cheesy idea from a hard core perspective, but that is the point! ;) We now have hard evidence in the form of this Kickstarter campaign that there are too few people willing to support at study sim - we just have to face it? Then it's up to the bombers/CAS aircraft to take out a number of clearly known things in that area. If it's a bridge flashing it's a no brainer what to destroy, if it's a rail junction you maybe have to take out some trains and some AAA defences etc. After the targets are down the area is captured by your side and the "front line moves". For online a mode like could be a lot of fun if well implemented even for us hard core guys as an alternative, and I guess it could work good for off-line to? But finally - this is all about getting more people to fund our own interests with having meticulously researched aircraft in a historically correct environment!

Now we talk! Amazing news! My $122 feels like a good investment ;-)

Well - expect a wave of $1 pledges now then? As it seems like we won't reach the stretch goals I guess the 20,30 and 40 levels are actually giving the same result as $1? Or have I misunderstood it?

I sure voted for only one flyable - but like many others here I don't think it matters much for the Kickstarter campaign if the "rules" are changed to only one free aircraft if the $1 backers get all three for free anyway? At least lock that $1 level so you don't end up with a bunch of $1 pledges these last days?

Just like I said, the 3000 "full real hardcore" ww2 sim pilots in the world will hate this cheesy idea ;-) And for the record, the thought was that the objective would flash on the map and not the objects in the world... I don't want to go all in... But I truly believe that combining a real hardcore sim engine with the game play elements that drag hundreds of thousands of players into War thunder could be an investment that pays off to drag new blood into our small niche? I have been wrong before though :) For me it's very annoying to play a flight simulator that does not give a realistic immersion of flying a real aircraft, but having some cheesy "fun for all" multiplayer modes would be nice the evenings when you just have 30-60 mins for gaming. For someone new to the genre it may not be their idea of fun to spend 45 minutes just to find the action and then get shot down without knowing what hit them? But it sure is realistic ;-) But will they come back after a few more sorties like that? There must be a reason why UK dedicated 1 is so popular on Hyperlobby, even though it has cockpits off etc, and some fast action like the one I propose... No arcade FM etc, but fast action for us that still remember all the Biggles books :)

And something else that I think you should add that will draw casual players into the game after it's released (but will not give anything for the Kickstarter) is a Warbirds style online war. Both sides try to capture air bases from the other side by taking out the AAA, control tower etc and then drop paratroopers to capture it. Cheesy? Yes of course! The full real hard core guys will hate it. But for the ones you talk about that don't know what induced drag is (and don't care about boring training missions) - I am pretty sure it will work very well! EDIT - thinking of it. In Normany it could be used in a way that at least is a bit more "realistic". A number of "choke points" (flags) are marked on the map. After the landing of troops on the invasion beach the "flags" closest to the beach start flashing. Then it's up to the bombers/CAS aircraft to take out a number of clearly known things in that area. If it's a bridge flashing it's a no brainer what to destroy, if it's a rail junction you maybe have to take out some trains and some AAA defences etc. After the targets are down the area is captured by your side and the "front line moves". Wasn't CFS3 having some attempt at that that did not work that good? For online it could be a lot of fun if well implemented, and I guess it could work good for off-line to? The fighters naturally have to protect their own bombers/CAS, and take out the ones from the other side. A bit like the regular online missions in IL2, but with a dynamic map where things happen. Naturally a lot of work to do it really slick - but if not "overdone" I guess it could be done?

I voted for the B-17 even though with the choice to not have the English coastline makes it a weird choice... But - the B-17 is a lot more work to make so air-starting it initially is something I could live with until the bomber bases are added later. And a flyable B-17 would draw a heck of a lot more people to the sim than a strip of southern England ;) I could even live with an IL2 online map style "air base floating in the middle of the ocean"... Or rather a small fake island that at least looks real like that one on the IL2 Normandy map (but a bit further from the French coast in that case)

OK, if Paypal is not to costy/complex to add that obviously is something many have been talking about... But I would definitely go the path of having only free one plane in the initial release! I would have liked to have a Harvard (usable for realistic training missions) or a C-47 (actually important for the D-Day setting - and it could be sold for $39 or so in DCS world as a DC-3 to drag some old FSX guys that way). But - as you have the plane set ready I'd say have the P-47 as free then... Why? It's cool looking but "from the man on the street" it would not be choice number one, and who would not like to have a Spitfire after a while... And a 109 to match it? I guess some people would be content with just the Spitfire and the 109 and even skip the P-47. So have that one as free and the "ladder" in rewards you proposed sounds good! And regarding upsetting the fence sitters that wait to get 3 planes for free I guess they understand that it was too generous anyway? Good luck! /mazex

He he, pun noticed. Don't try to sneak in a .50 effectiveness discussion into the Fw 190 bar thread ;) The "Fw 190 bar" and ".50 cal effectiveness" topics are explosive like nitro which is well known since the old zoo-days and should never be intermixed! :)

Give the man some slack... ;) Ilya posted this 9 hours ago in a KS comment so he is sleeping as it was a 257 minutes upload and from what he writes well aware that the video is private until he wakes up... But OK, it sure would have been better to wait until the upload was done to post the link... Ilya Shevchenko about 9 hours ago 26:47 in length. 257 minutes remaining to upload. Good night! See you guys in a little bit!

Awesome link! And the amazing thing is that most are shot the 6:th of June 1944... So to really know what it looked like exactly on D-day this is invaluable! Edit again - it just gets better... Have you clicked the "maps" text below the images that expands the "Google Maps" link that show the exact image boundaries in Google Maps? So nice! And triple edit - take some of my pledged $110 and get the team a subscriber license now ;)

A bit out of topic but not completely... Found these when searching for old images from D-Day... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2100326/Stunning-rare-colour-images-World-War-II.html Amazing stuff. Color adds so much "immersion" like that image of the German POW:s that look like a bunch of sorry boys instead of the black and white images that feel so "historical"... P-47 from the article:

And Open Street Map seems well updated for the modern Normandy Area... If a plugin could be used against the historical OSM it's up to the community to remove a lot of modern highways then ;) And a close up of central Carentan...

It would take man years enough for a whole life I guess... The only possibility would be to go the path of X-plane 10... To use OSM (Open Street Map) data to autogenerate the landscape. It does not look too bad from altitude at least... A bit worse down low unfortunately like all autogenerated landscapes... Here is the plugin they use (with screenshots etc) - http://osm2xp.com/ The problem is naturally that OSM only works for 2013 scenarios :) But... If it would be combined with this OSM project it could work in theory (historical maps for OSM): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM And... Crytek recently put up a reward for independent developers / students to do an OSM plugin for their engine: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2296020/crytek-wants-to-use-existing-open-street-map-data-for-video-game-environments But the final comment regarding the work needed from them is: However, he did add that this is still "a very long way away" It's fun to dream - I do however realize the amount of work to get this working so it's more a bit of dreaming... Imagine DCS with a map that covers the whole world! For modern days it could theoretically be done ;) EDIT - an image from X-plane with osm2xp auto generated scenery from Open Street Map. Not too shabby ;)

Great idea! Something like this would be nice (where we naturally step back from all demands for correct myriad of docks in Portsmouth etc!): Cut in the lower or right part if needed please like Chivas says!

It really would be great idea - accept that "the company that must not be named" will claim copyright fees for all the equipment payed by the US taxpayers 70 years ago. So we will have to raise $1 000 000 where Ilya gets 10 bucks :) If you don't understand what I talk about it was a certain US manufacturer that made life hard for 1C and Maddox games after releasing "Pacific Fighters" that included a carrier and some carrier based aircraft that the "company that must not be named" owned the IP:s for... OK, 1C where a bit sloppy forgetting to add some legal text like "Patents for xxx are owned by TCTMNBN", but many of us got a bit upset. There has never been any real confirmation from Ilya or Oleg about this as they where scared to silence by TCTMNBN... And as an edit it was not the fault of Ilya or Oleg, the producer should have double checked stuff like this naturally...

Well - looking at the names of the people that have pledged a majority have "western" sounding names. But there are a bunch of Russian names too... I guess the problem it that in Russia a lot of people don't have $40 to "gamble with" - but a few could pledge the whole amount needed to fund this title if they liked the idea :) Let's find one of those Russians that I met on vacation in Cannes this summer. They would easily put in $100.000 "just for fun" :)

Agree - that's the one I have selected. And then it seems impossible to just pledge 85 and skip the T-shirt mail costs so 85 becomes 97 :) Or is there a way to skip the T-shirt? I would rather let the team have those last few bucks instead as I'm not interested in a T-shirt anyway...

Well - my thought was not ask the question why there are only 1100 that have pledged - it was more thought as an encouragement that there are 2000 that have been convinced to pre-purchase another similar product without really knowing what the will get. But I do agree that the BoS team (that of course have been working for a year so it's not that strange) have released a lot more information so it's not that much a "leap of faith". But still - many of us here have been flying the DCS products for years and know that they are solid. And many have also tried the P-51 in DCS and know that it's good... So for the ones that already have DCS: P-51 it's really not that hard to have a fairly good guess at what this game will be like regarding the important base engine features. If this product just becomes a new map for DCS and some opponents for the P-51 - I will be happy with that actually :) But for many it is naturally important to not just have a nice sandbox with a bunch of WWII aircraft but to also have good immersive single player campaigns etc. Of that we know very little... But - I just wanted to say there are at least 900 "easy" targets out there to convince to take a leap!

Well - from reading a number of different memoirs from allied pilots during the war - the D9 piloted by a veteran pilot was one of the most feared opponents... As I remember it Pierre Clostermann said he thought it was the best fighter of the war (after the Tempest I guess that he loved ;)) Chuck Yeager also named it the best German fighter as I remember it. - Good roll speed - and nice handling in general - Good at keeping the energy in high speed turns (as seen in IL2 1946 where it is THE choice of the real aces) - Good firepower (though not as the "insane" firepower of the A:s) - Powerful engine with good thrust to weight ratio - Easy to land compared to the 109 (not to underestimate with the rookie pilots that where thrown into service in 44-45) - Easy engine management compared to most other fighters ("Kommandogerat") - Was a lot better at high altitude vs P-51:s etc compared to the A:s, but Ta 152 was the german fighter that really was able to take on the Mustangs "for real". The D9 was better than the P-51:s if they got down to medium or low altitude, but high altitude it was not optimal. - Good view compared to the 109 Many experten here sure can come up with a lot more :)

Great find - and that Alabama video looks awesome - even though I agree with Sith that it has a bit of Red Dawn feeling over it with that Mi-8 :)

Some clever guys at the BoS site realized you could see how many people there are in the "Founders" group in that forum and thus have a rough estimate about how many that have pre-purchased BoS). There are probably a bunch more that have not "activated" their keys but as most have pre-purchased to join the beta the majority have probably activated by now. And there are about 2000 that are in that group. Thinking that most WWII sim community folks know about the few games that are in development these days - it may be an indication of how many pledgers it may be possible to attracts to this game without reaching outside "The community"? So - 900 out there that may get convinced to pledge still? And with more advertising there are naturally more. But I guess these 2000 are the regular names we see in all forums, that also are willing to take a risk by sponsoring an unknown product? And I realized my thread title is wrong. Not 2000 potential customers, rather 2000 potential "easy to convince pledgers"?

The idea to use the map as a mid tier is a good one. Why not add a number of "stretches" of the map to keep the pledge pressure up as it is "losing momentum" lately?1 It probably has to do with the fact that most think we will reach 100k - but not 375k? An image of the map where 150k gets us this, 200k this etc.. And in 50k increments up to 350k for the B17... (375k is not even enough anyway ;))

lol :)

Thanks! The problem are the intersections between the levels... And if you don't want t-shirts etc that are only going to production costs and postage some options are lacking... I have the P-51, want the D9 and alpha acesss and no physical stuff sent... Impossible combination it seems. I just want to pay $100 and get what I get on 85 + the alpha access that people get already at 50 ;) Sigh... The stuff that really adds to the confusion is that the stuff just don't add to the previous levels like Kickstarter projects use too I think?