Next aircraft speculation

Safer not to assume anything :)

AI

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2300012&postcount=3

;)

The other two planes...

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2300012&postcount=3

 

 

 

;)

Oh dang, he caught you red handed SiThSpAwN!

I'm with Sith on this one, nothing can be read into that updated model. I think they are trying to replace all the remaining original LOMAC 3d models before the release of DCS 2. It may or may not become flyable in the near future and may or may not use that 3d model if it does. I also don't know if that is an ED model or an LNS model. I don't think they ever said. The MiG-15Bis was added as an AI plane with the Sabre I think. It later became flyable and appears to use the same extenal 3d model. So there is certainly precedent for slipping the AI model in first.

How so? We have gotten many new models for DCS, all come in as AI. It is AI (like the old model), its not safe to assume anything else.

I agree that minimal weight should be placed on the updated F-5 model. However, I think the recent emphasis on the F-5 and the fact that it matches the Leatherneck clues is worth a thought.

Here is another thing to think about. This LNS banner mentions "Cats and Ducks". The F-5 is a "Cat" - the Tiger.

There is also this post by Rudel during their Februamarch update:

Neither are close to definitive or in direct context, but Rudel doesn't seem to randomly post pictures much. He has also mentioned VMF-214 in a prior post (correlating with the hinted F4U), it seems that they are fans of posts/pics with double meaning. I gave the picture a thought when he posted it, but now it adds to the other hints.

I was expecting a Viggen, which is an aircraft that I would love to fly. That said, it has much less potential use and doesn't integrate as well with the existing DCS theaters/aircraft. I would still love to have it.

The F-5E fits in perfectly, would have lots of potential uses, and fits all of their hints. Guess we'll see in the next few weeks (I hope!) or months (?).

I'm having fun with this. :)

-Nick

That F-5, F-5, F-5 pic is actually pretty old. I've seen it used in other forums too over the years. But you are right, Rudel doesn't typically post pics or at all for that matter. With the F-14 we had in your face hints that left very little doubt as to what they were hinting at. But any hints we've gotten at other aircraft seem contradictory or terribly vague. Upon further thought, I agree the F-5E (upgraded) or F-5N appear to be candidates, but there are so many others that fit the various clues too. Hopefully they release a new newsletter soon to announce the other two projects.

My ideal projects would be the F-5E + MiG-23ML or MiG-25PD. They'd fit nicely with the MiG-21Bis and F-14A respectively. But I'm not sure how well they line up with the overall hints. So much points at a WW2 plane in the mix. That leaves the question of what constitutes a duck if one of the birds is an F-5. Other than the Hs-129, I can't think of any WW2 planes nicknamed ducks. And there has been absolutely nothing to suggest an Hs-129. It would also be one hell of an orphan plane if they did make it.

What about double ugly = ugly duckling = F4 Phantom II?

My ideal projects would be the F-5E + MiG-23ML or MiG-25PD. They'd fit nicely with the MiG-21Bis and F-14A respectively. But I'm not sure how well they line up with the overall hints. So much points at a WW2 plane in the mix. That leaves the question of what constitutes a duck if one of the birds is an F-5. Other than the Hs-129, I can't think of any WW2 planes nicknamed ducks. And there has been absolutely nothing to suggest an Hs-129. It would also be one hell of an orphan plane if they did make it.

I agree that a MiG-23 or MiG-25 would be EXCELLENT additions. They were widely used by many other countries and were the Soviet front-line for a long time. They are also intriguing designs and the performance of the MiG-25 is still legendary.

There are other aircraft that match the clues, but none the line up all of them like the F-5. The other proposed modern design that matches the clues is the Mitsubishi F2 (the Rising Sun symbol is tough to match up with anything but JASDF stuff or the F-5). However, the Mitsu F2 is definitely a "left field" concept and access to adequate docs is far from assured, especially since it is still in front-line service. It also wouldn't fit into very many scenarios and is a fairly complex design. It would also be complete torture for those who want an F-16 to get something so close, but different!

Especially with NTTR around the corner, this whole F-5 thing makes sense and there have been some other clues along the way. Of note, the picture for BEACHAV8R's interview contains 4 aircraft pictures, 2 of which are in development. It makes sense that they would sneak in another in-development module for fun.

No I'm wondering if there is something to the Su-24 as well. Are there any markings for it with a "Rising Sun"? I might need to look and see if other aircraft match that criteria as well (Su-24 matches several hints as well, but is much more complicated and requires their new AI system to work).

-Nick

What about double ugly = ugly duckling = F4 Phantom II?

Maybe, but a F-4 module would also require the JesterAI system to work fully. Seems like that would come after the F-14. I've also heard that the licensing fees for the Phantom are higher than most aircraft (from an intellectual property standpoint - courtesy of Boeing who now owns MD).

Hopefully someone will step-up to that one despite the possible cost.

-Nick

the Rising Sun symbol is tough to match up with anything but JASDF stuff or the F-5

The Rising Sun has also been featured on the F-8, F-4 and F-14, so it is hardly an exclusive clue to the F-5. But I still think it is more of a reference the the WWII Pacific theater as a whole.

Seriously guys, Wags posted the screen shot of the F5 for the Mudspike interview to show what ED are currently working on.

ED have also stated they're slowly updating all the old models currently in World. The F5 is one of the really old ones, so it probably just happens to be the next in-line.

I very much doubt there's some grand conspiracy and that they (ED+LN) are sneakily teasing us as part of that. Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like a flyable one modeled to PFM/AFM standards, but I don't think it's happening yet.

The Rising Sun has also been featured on the F-8, F-4 and F-14, so it is hardly an exclusive clue to the F-5. But I still think it is more of a reference the the WWII Pacific theater as a whole.

Perhaps...could have been a dual reference for both the possible pacific theater/F4U or the F-14. But odd to have 3 modules in development and 3 clues that apply to 2 modules. Thats all.

We'll see...lots of possibilities.

-Nick

Seriously guys, Wags posted the screen shot of the F5 for the Mudspike interview to show what ED are currently working on.

 

ED have also stated they're slowly updating all the old models currently in World. The F5 is one of the really old ones, so it probably just happens to be the next in-line.

 

I very much doubt there's some grand conspiracy and that they (ED+LN) are sneakily teasing us as part of that. Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like a flyable one modeled to PFM/AFM standards, but I don't think it's happening yet.

This conversation didn't start because of that picture (at least not for me). It has more to do with the coalescence of several other clues.

-Nick

Well with the evidence we have, I think its the i153P

Defiantly the i153 I mean look at the signs. there are just as many for it as there are for the others

In all seriousness though, I would LOVE a late model F5E

3. Ground radar - the current F-5E uses the AN/APG-69 that includes beam mapping and A-G capability (upgraded in the 1980s - I think, can't find an exact date).

Do you have any more information about this? I tried to find out more about it, but other than a sketchy sentence in wiki I could find anything useful. And the wiki entry is dubious as well, as it claims that Swiss F-5E were upgraded with AN/APG-69. The state of the F-5E has been in Swiss media a lot in past years with regards to their replacement (which failed in a popular vote), and I have never heard that they had any radar upgrades. In fact, the crappy avionics of the Tigers (which still have gunsights and no HUD) is the reason that the type is up for replacement.

It might be possible that the F-5N, 38 former Swiss F-5E that have been sold to the USN between 2004 and 2007, have been upgraded with AN/APG-69. But also on this I found conflicting information.

It seems that Tigers with air-ground radar is a quite recent and exotic upgrade, if it even ever happened with the USN (some other nations do have their own upgraded Tigers).

Do you have any more information about this? I tried to find out more about it, but other than a sketchy sentence in wiki I could find anything useful. And the wiki entry is dubious as well, as it claims that Swiss F-5E were upgraded with AN/APG-69. The state of the F-5E has been in Swiss media a lot in past years with regards to their replacement (which failed in a popular vote), and I have never heard that they had any radar upgrades. In fact, the crappy avionics of the Tigers (which still have gunsights and no HUD) is the reason that the type is up for replacement.

 

It might be possible that the F-5N, 38 former Swiss F-5E that have been sold to the USN between 2004 and 2007, have been upgraded with AN/APG-69. But also on this I found conflicting information.

 

It seems that Tigers with air-ground radar is a quite recent and exotic upgrade, if it even ever happened with the USN (some other nations do have their own upgraded Tigers).

Yeah, it's hard to find details on how many or when the systems were upgraded. Here are two links that I found:

The first is an archived magazine article from 1986 that discusses the AN/APG-69 and the ease of upgrade (3 hours with no major modifications - just exchange radar antennae and black boxes):

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1986/1986%20-%200079.html

Here is another article on Swiss F-5Es that mentions their previous upgrade to the AN/APG-69 - not mentioning when it happened.

http://www.touchdown-aviation.com/types/swiss-air-force/f-5-tiger-ii.php

It also mentions that the only aircraft upgraded with the AN/APG-69 were Swiss AF and USAF (USN?) Aggressor squadrons. I see several article casually mentioning that other nations upgraded their Tigers with radars that were similar in capability, such as the AN/APG-67 for the F-20 Tigershark and other sets produced by other nations that offered some ground mapping/sea target tracking - but all quite vague.

-Nick

Thanks. The second article has the exact same wording as wiki though, so I am not sure how reliable this is.

Edit: Actually, every google hit shows the very same sentence. I do not think that AN/APG-69 on F-5 ever happened.

Thanks. The second article has the exact same wording as wiki though, so I am not sure how reliable this is.

 

Edit: Actually, every google hit shows the very same sentence. I do not think that AN/APG-69 on F-5 ever happened.

Guess someone would have to check the flight manual for the USN F-5E or F-5N. Anyone from LNS have a copy?;)

Current Navy fact file states that the F-5N uses the AN/APG-159 - an updated version of the AN/APG-153 with more range/capability.

-Nick

Could we be seeing the Apache come into being.. It would be the one for the helicopter pilots

I'd love an Apache but I think BST is more likely to make that one. Cobra has also stated they aren't doing any rotary craft at this time.

I'd love an Apache but I think BST is more likely to make that one. Cobra has also stated they aren't doing any rotary craft at this time.

Fortunate for you; then we'd have to spam Firebirds references all over the forum. :)

If they do a US-only (or even West-only) line-up I'm gonna commit a Chris Crocker cause I don't fly or like US planes and I really like the MiG-21 they sold us.

A MiG-31 or Su-24 or Su-34 or Tu-22 or MiG-29M or heck even Tu-160 (first satellite navigation system in the world, 5 years before American GPS) would on the other hand make my month!

Fortunate for you; then we'd have to spam Firebirds references all over the forum. :)

 

Thank the gods. I suddenly have the desire to watch that movie though, never seen it or heard of it before. I have a feeling I'm going to regret it.:helpsmilie:

If they do a US-only (or even West-only) line-up I'm gonna commit a Chris Crocker cause I don't fly or like US planes and I really like the MiG-21 they sold us.

 

A MiG-31 or Su-24 or Su-34 or Tu-22 or MiG-29M or heck even Tu-160 (first satellite navigation system in the world, 5 years before American GPS) would on the other hand make my month!

I'm mostly with you on that. I'm not attached to any particular nation's planes but I think it would be a mistake for LNS to do three US planes in a row. I much prefer the alternating approach BST does. It gives something for everyone and keeps things interesting.