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Hello All!

And is there any wild manuveur that would make the coxial rotors touch! I Would think the heli does have it's limits on what you can do! And what you can't!

 

Hi Oldflyer2,

 

this comment shows, that your first attempts to fly the Ka-50 are at least better than mine :). The first thing I did in this simulation was trying to go fast, so I gained some height and then went both, nose and pitch down. And guess what, I got fast, so approaching ground level, I immediately gave full collective pitch, cyclic back and soon I listened to the wonderful sound of touching blades. :doh:

 

Have fun, bfeld


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Hello All!

 

Hey! who started this great thread anyway?...LOL Just kidding!

 

I also want too thank those that should me some of there trks. Great flyers in here! Some made me dizzy! but HooA!

 

My thing with any flight model is not only what it allows you to do, but what it should not as well. one thing that I seem to get in my setup is a real hard time getting rid of sideslip!

 

You get use to it- use the pedals and don't be shy about it. Just remember that trim puts the pedals to the position you're holding them at, so once you trim you must physically return your controls to neutral.

 

And the heli in slow hover never settles down! it always wants to be turning left or right with no input. so I made this trk and need to ask this.
You're not trimmed right; or, if you have heading hold disengaged, it's your own fault ;)

 

Should I really be able to sideslip this heli at over 260 KPH! I thought that at those speeds the airfoils, wing stabs would give it more wind resistant effect. Make it need to bank more into turns! maybe I'm wrong!.
You are wrong. Even jets are capable of happily sideslipping at high speeds, and WW2 fighters certainly did so as well. You must trim (ie. step on the ball).

 

 

And is there any wild manuveur that would make the coxial rotors touch! I Would think the heli does have it's limits on what you can do! And what you can't!
Any high-speed, violent maneuver can accomplish this. The higher and faster you are flying, the easier it is to achieve (at high altitudes and high or low enough speed - ie. anything that's not optimal speed - it is enough to make a false move with the collective to have a rotor collision). Also, in general, at high speed avoid right pedal input (or at least be very careful/gentle with it)

 

I guess I will make this my final thoughts on the whole thing. But I have seen some real honest opions come out here! I hope It all helps. It was not ment at all too hurt.
No one got hurt ;)

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I flew a track with some basic and advanced maneuvers, enjoy :)

Control_by_Frazer.trk

 

I saw real pilots talking about the trim feature in real heli, but in the sim, with a non-FF joy, things are different. We need to adjust to our "reallity"!
Thats why the new patch will be great for non-FF users :)

 

Any high-speed, violent maneuver can accomplish this. The higher and faster you are flying, the easier it is to achieve (at high altitudes and high or low enough speed - ie. anything that's not optimal speed - it is enough to make a false move with the collective to have a rotor collision). Also, in general, at high speed avoid right pedal input (or at least be very careful/gentle with it)

I know the exact limits of the Ka-50's by crashing it MANY times :joystick: :D The track shows what you still can do without damaging anything. :pilotfly:

Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel

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260 Kph is only 140 knots.

 

Just about any Airplane can slip at that speed, and the Black Shark has enough strength/Torque *Not to mention that rudder* to be able to do a slip at those speeds just fine.

 

Edit;

 

 

You won't see a jet doing that, because its not something a pilot would normally do. I fly airplanes, Trust me when I say, that you can slip a jet doing 250 knots, you can also slip a Cessna/Piper/Cirrus doing 140 knots

 

 

260kph=140 Knots, if you can slip a Cessna/Piper using just a rudder, You best bet you can Slip a Kamov with a huge amount of Torque in those Rotors, AND a Rudder. :)

 

 

 

you have to remember this isn't your Conventional helicopter, the Rudder works in Two ways, the first is by applying More/Less collective to a certain blade, this creates a Torque Factor that will turn the body of the helicopter, the second, is that Rudder on the Tail, which gives it a more Conventional Rudder control at high speeds *Like an airplane*.


Edited by redberon2003
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Here Is my trk of the sideslip

 

 

[ATTACH]29472[/ATTACH]

 

Jets! Flying sideways? Ok!

 

If someone has a video of that! I'd like to see it!

 

 

The maximum speed to do a real side slip (90 degree nose off angle) in the Ka-50 is 80km/h. The maximum speed flying backwards is 90km/h.

 

The faster you go, the more drag the tail encounters limiting the possible off angle.

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Maybe we mean different things when we say 'sideslip'?

 

I'm referring to the fixed-wing aircraft sideslip where the ball is off to one side or the other. If you're talking about the entire flight vector being to the side then no, jets don't normally do that unless they're VTOLs. ;)

 

Jets! Flying sideways? Ok!

 

If someone has a video of that! I'd like to see it!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I bow to the master :D

 

However in general it is recommended to avoid right pedal input, at least in the real aircraft - in some parts of the flight envelope ... you don't get to do much destructive testing in RL.

 

I know the exact limits of the Ka-50's by crashing it MANY times :joystick: :D The track shows what you still can do without damaging anything. :pilotfly:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I flew a track with some basic and advanced maneuvers, enjoy :)

Control_by_Frazer.trk

 

*gulp* ... thanx alot. now i have to spend even more time with BS. why? cause after that track i know: i dont know anything about the Shark.

 

nice flying, man!

take me out to the black,

tell 'em i ain't coming back,

i don't care, i'm still free,

you can't take the sky from me.

 

...still waiting for the day when the military recruits their dronepilots out of a group of flightsimgamers...

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*gulp* ... thanx alot. now i have to spend even more time with BS. why? cause after that track i know: i dont know anything about the Shark.

 

nice flying, man!

Glad to be able to motivate BS pilots :)

 

It is what the priorities are. For me this is flying aerobatics to the max. With other words, I have no clue how to fire a missle. :P

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Frazer, you have completely depressed me! After about a month of trying to pull of manouvers like you have done, I thought I had them. Now I realise I know **** all !!!!!! Seriously, some truly brilliant flying.... now off i go to practice:joystick:

 

Salute Frazer!

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MODERATOR!!!!:music_whistling: hehehehe

 

 

Which guy?

 

And you're being a bit harsh - I think you mean oldflyer - if you don't disregard what i am about to say but Oldflyer has a right to say what he likes about the flight model... even if he is wrong:music_whistling::D:D:D

 

Warbird

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Technically sideslip is where you are flying the fixed-wing out of balance and deliberately using rudder in one direction and opposite aileron. Useful for aircraft that don't have flaps or are tail draggers/tail wheel.

 

Keeping the "ball in the middle" is a matter of keeping the craft balanced be it rotary- or fixed-wing.

 

Not that that really helps much now though... :)

 

A great example of using sideslipping for landing:

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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Useful for aircraft that don't have flaps or are tail draggers/tail wheel.

 

A great example of using sideslipping for landing:

This approach has actually nothing to do with having flaps or a tail wheel. That side slip is the "old" way to decent at a rapid speed used for aircraft having no airbrakes. What you do is use the fuselage to create drag.

 

When I was still flying gliders I did that all the time, not that it was required (the glider had spoilers) but simply because it is great fun! :D

 

I like the way this guy is taxiing :joystick: :thumbup:

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Well I beg to differ. It's not an "old" way in the slightest. It's a part of modern-day piston aviation.

 

An aircraft that doesn't have flaps should use a sideslip approach. Yes it creates extra drag, but more importantly it lets you have a nose down attitude so that you can see the runway. Especially in a tail wheel aircraft. You can hardly fly the entire approach in the three-point attitude for landing. And if you just fly a straight approach you are going to then have to worry about speed. Not something you want to do if you are on a short strip.

 

Naturally flaps allow you to fly slower, but the secondary benefit is that you don't have to fly a flat approach.

 

Also a useful approach in strong crosswinds.

 

You should try sideslipping an open cockpit aircraft, you don't need a balance ball to tell you when you're out of balance you get hit by a great big wall of air instead.

 

That guy's taxiing... Great way to ding the prop! But what a machine, I'd kill for a Cub on those warm summer days...

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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I don't want to start a whole discussion about this but......:D

 

Well I beg to differ. It's not an "old" way in the slightest. It's a part of modern-day piston aviation.
I wrote old between commas meaning that it is not really old. They still use it today though mainly with older aircraft in lack of airbrakes/spoilers.

 

An aircraft that doesn't have flaps should use a sideslip approach. Yes it creates extra drag, but more importantly it lets you have a nose down attitude so that you can see the runway. Especially in a tail wheel aircraft. You can hardly fly the entire approach in the three-point attitude for landing. And if you just fly a straight approach you are going to then have to worry about speed. Not something you want to do if you are on a short strip.

You actually fly a slip with a nose up angle ;)

With the Piper L-4 you can perfectly see the runway like with any other aircraft. Only during taxi it is required to zigzag to see the runway/taxiway (or do it like this guy did, using the wheelbrakes).

 

Naturally flaps allow you to fly slower, but the secondary benefit is that you don't have to fly a flat approach.
The Piper L-4 is designed without flaps and with a big wing. Landing speed is 40 mph (64 km/h) so I guess it's not required to fly any slower.

Trust me, they only fly a slip approach for rapid decent at short strips with tree lines or other obstacles (or just for fun/show-off ofcourse :D).

 

Also a useful approach in strong crosswinds.
With strong crosswinds you put your nose in the wind and it will look similar to the slip approach but it is something totally different.

When there are strong winds there is no need to slip with the Piper since you can fly it with almost no groundspeed (back on topic, like a helicopter :)).

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Yuhhh.......

 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, a Sideslip has nothing to do with Descending Faster, a Side-slip is a Landing technique in which Rudder is used to line the aircraft with center-line, and Bank is used to correct the Crosswind say you were crabbed into the wind, nose pointed to the right side, you would stomp left rudder, and Bank to the Right "Slipping" while lined up with centerline.

 

 

The Slip used in a Descent is called a "Forward" Slip, it involves Creating drag with the fuselage by inputting rudder to one side, banking to the opposite, and descending in a Straight line at a Heavy "Crab", the airplane creates an immense amount of drag like this, and flies like a Rock, Nose goes Down, in order to keep airspeed up, because if you stall on this configuration, you can bet money you'll end up killing yourself in a spin.:smartass:

 

 

Ryan,

Your Licensed Pilot and Aviation dictionary.

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Zorrin, you imply that without sidesliup you cannot have a nose down approach attitude? That is wrong - you defintely can! Also the approach speed has no relevance. Side slipping does not reduce your approach spped, in fact in the latter stages of landing it will reduce it - visualise a plane sideslipping - airflow is diagonal across the wing, disrupting the airflow and reducing lift therefore increasing stalls speed. The function of the sideslip is to allow a higher descent rate without the corresponding increase in speed, often used when approaching too high to a runway or, as Frazer says, a shorter strip with an obstacle on approach.

 

You should trust Frazer... have you seen that track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

 

And Frazer, you have just started a whole discussion on this:D whoopsie daisies

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redberon, the 'Forward' slip is more often that not referred to as a sideslip. Check your AFE PPL Course book if you don't believe me:smartass:

 

Yes the sideslip is the correct term for a landing technique, but if you are really going to be that pedantic then the 'Crab' is not the Forward slip, but the crosswing landing technique. Check your AFE PPL Course book if you don't believe me:smartass:

 

And I just realised In my previous post instead of stall speed i said approach speed. Check your AFE PPL Course book if you don't believe me:smartass:

 

And Zorrin, love the sig - had me laughing a lot

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Well for what it's worth I'm a fully licensed pilot, with time on fixed- and rotary-wing (but no gliding!) jet, piston and turboprop. And the last time I flew a tail dragger I was in a Tiger Moth, without the slats. The way I was taught to fly that was to sideslip the approach. You solo that from the rear, just like the Captain flies a Cub from the rear seat. But you obviously knew that? Pretty f**king hard to see the runway when you have someone's heaed in the way.

 

But, to clarify the confusion...

 

Sideslip: Where you slip the aircraft using CROSSED CONTROLS. It is out of balance.

Crab: Where you point the nose of the aircraft into the wind to compensate for the drift from the wind while flying the aircraft in balance.

 

Both approaches are suitable for crosswind landings, they each have their merits and depend on the aircraft you are flying.

 

redberoon: What you're describing is merely ensuring that you put the aileron into wind as you straighten up with the rudder. And you shouldn't be stomping it, ever. It should be smooth. Stomp implies a violent stamp which wouldn't be such a good idea. Flying should never be violent, it can be fast, but always smooth.

 

After a crab approach you would maintain the crab until the flare. It is at that point, as you flare, that you use the rudder to line up with the runway and drop your wing into wind. This way you put the correct wing down first and shortly thereafter the other wheel will touch down too.

 

warbird: I'm not suggesting that a sideslip is the perfect approach, merely commenting that is the practised procedure for aircraft which do not feature flaps (at least from all of my experiences). Aircraft without flaps are 99% tail-wheel/draggers. Off-hand I cannot think of a single tricyle aircraft that doesn't have flaps. I haven't seen a single flapless aircraft in this country land in any other way than with a sideslip.

 

And no disrespect to Frazer, but why should I trust him because he can fly a helicopter simulator well? It's realistic, but it's a far cry from the real thing. Not too mention we've ended up on fixed-wing now... :)

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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Allright, I forgot that you flew the Piper solo from the back seat. Then indeed it is, as you subscribe it "f**king hard" :D to see the runway. For other taildragger aircraft though it is not required to do a sideslip to see the runway.

 

And no disrespect to Frazer, but why should I trust him because he can fly a helicopter simulator well? It's realistic, but it's a far cry from the real thing. Not too mention we've ended up on fixed-wing now... :)
I know you refer to Warbird_242, but I'm speaking with 6 years experience flying gliders and motorized gliders. And ofcourse interest into aviation since I took my first steps :)

 

Anyway, lets go back on topic. The Flight Dynamic Engine of Oldflyer :D


Edited by Frazer

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Of course! I've seen that track and am not calling into doubt your ability to handle the Shark :) I've been flying right seat "unloggable" since I was 11 and had my license for about 5 1/2 years... But yes back to OP!

 

So OldFlyer, now that you know a bit more about sideslip and the crucial fact that you need to fly it [the Shark] in balance, how are you getting on?

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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