Support for more types of Head Tracking Software.

Please help me in my quest to include support for more types of Head Tracking Software within the DCS/Lockon series.

The Background

--------------------

With the Lockon/DCS series, the only head tracking interface that is supported is NaturalPoints TrackIR. To use a different system; FreeTrack or FaceTracknoIR for example, an exploit must be applied to one of the dll files that is packaged with the flight simulator. As well as being illegal, it will also not work with 64 bit versions of windows, which in turn means that you have to run your games in 32 bit mode.

So, why do Eagle Dynamics only support TrackIR? Well, they did start developing an interface to allow alternative head tracking systems but they were asked to stop by NaturalPoint. It has not been confirmed but it is believed that Eagle Dynamics were told if they included any other system, then they were not allowed to include TrackIR.

Possible Solutions

----------------------

These unfortunately are few and far between. There is an option to use ppjoy, but myself and many others can not get it to work, it is quite a complicated setup, mainly caused by the unsigned drivers. To sign the drivers would cost a lot of money.

By far the best and easiest way would be if Eagle Dynamics changed their decision and included another protocol. There are methods that are very easy to implement and would not require any code or software developed by NaturalPoint.

Why would Eagle Dynamics do that?

-------------------------------

If NaturalPoint wanted to stop people from exploiting their software, then they have failed. By stopping other head tracking interfaces from competing, FreeTrack (and others) have been forced to exploit the TrackIR's files. Eagle Dynamics would actually be helping to stop the exploitation of the TrackIR software.

Another reason would be the numbers of people using the other available head tracking systems, these are very rough figures but so far the number of downloads are:

FreeTrack - 50,000 +

FaceTracknoIR 20,000 +

I do not have figures on other systems but they still show 70,000 downloads combined. Yes, some may have download several times but even when taken into consideration it is still an amazing figure that can not be ignored by Eagle Dynamics.

This would also open up many other possibilieies

So what can we do?

-------------------------

Well, this situation has existed before. A game called ArmA which was produced by Bohemia Interactive went through exactly the same thing. The community got together and started an online petition. After 900+ signatures, Bohemia Interactive changed their stance and included a FreeTrack interface in one of their following updates. So it can be done!

On other matters, Eagle Dynamics are absolutely brilliant. Unlike most developers, they listen to what their end users want from their software and implement most of it very quickly indeed. As far as I am concerned, for a company of their size, I think their support is second to none. It is because of this, I believe they will listen to us if we make our voices heard.

In an attempt to persuade Eagle Dynamics I have started an online petition as well. It is quickly gaining popularity. I hope with your support that we can exceed the 900 signatures received for ArmA and get into the thousands. It takes very little time, costs you nothing, your email address remains hidden (unless you specify otherwise) and this might just work.

The Petition can be found here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Tracking/petition.html

I look forward to your support and hope we can make a difference.

Signed :) . Facetracknoir seems to have an huge potential and, with Microsoft Kinect landing on PC, trackir will be relegated to the past.

Regards!

As mentioned in other posts this is a noble form of complaint but it might not bare fruit. However I have signed it as many others have and I am sure will. Does NP have ED by short and curlies here? Time will tell.

Next action will be to burn my TiR at the stake in a public display of protest. Well i will start with the stupid antlers first which i have two broken pairs because they are made shoddily.

I do know one thing for sure, I have a good friend who is developing another fine helo sim and I will be sure he pays close attention to this to make sure NP products play second fiddle to anything else out there when it comes to his code.

Signed. Very good idea man.

Signed too by an owner of TrackIR 5 Pro!

no signature logged but agreement in principle

no signature logged but agreement in principle

Your choice obviously but may I ask why not?

@ Jireland..

Why not, you ask?

petition doesn't allow for hack free products only... hence my agreement in principle but no signature

@ wolfrider - I included a comments section, you could put in there you want hack free products.

We all want to use hack free products, that's pretty much why we are doing this. If ED listens to the petition then I am sure that's what we will get. If they do not change their stance however, the other head tracking software developers will always be forced to hack to access their only interface into the game.

As you have suggested before it would be nice to have DirectX support for headtracking but more likely NP will have killed off any competition before that happens.

Obviously it's your choice to sign and if you are happy to continue with NaturalPoint's hold on the Headtracking market, that's fine too. This post is mainly aimed at other users reading your comments.

@ Jireland...

Yes, I could left a comment in the "remarks box", but, I didn't want my signature counted in your pettiton, which by the way also contains misleading information and conjecture...

Is that blackmail I detect in your above post? which basically says; "if you don't comply, the hacks continue"

Personally, I would have been happy to have just left the one short post... but you did ask

 

If ED listens to the petition then I am sure that's what we will get. If they do not change their stance however, the other head tracking software developers will always be forced to hack to access their only interface into the game.

 

@ Jireland...

Is that blackmail I detect in your above post?

That's a wild accusation, which I really do not appreciate. I was only trying to set your mind to rest on the matters that you highlighted. I am not the only person that you have made an attack on today (Sobek?)

I am not affiliated with any software house so therefore have nothing to personally gain. All of my time spent raising the profile for this petition is for the community of people who want to use alternative head tracking software.

As author of the on-line petition, it is my job to encourage people to sign it. If you chose not to, as I said, clearly in my previous post, that is fine, your choice. I no longer which to make any communication with you any more so please do not direct any more posts at me and I will do likewise.

Thanks

Signed.

Hope FT and others will be soon.

signed.

they'd be an uproar if thrustmaster asked ED to encrypt axis commands so you could only use a thrustmaster warthog stick, why should head tracking be any different.

signed

+1

I have Freetrack working on FC2, BS and A-10C, with Windows 7 64-bit. I just can't play anymore without head tracking.

signed, thanks for setting this up.

Signed, I'm a TrackIR user since the very first version but I think sim developers should allow their users the choice of head tracking solutions as they do joysticks or any other peripherals.

There's something wrong with this petition, in my opinion. The specified alternatives for headtracking are just too many. You can't expect them to start supporting the Kinect, regular webcam and the WiiRemote. Why not focus on one interface, like FreeTrack, or FaceTrackNoIR (which isn't as good as FreeTrack, in my experience).

Webcam, Wiimote and Kinect are only really only input devices (they're all really just webcams), they all need the tracking software like FaceTrackNoIR or FreeTrack to function. I have tried to keep the petition generic to appeal to users of both systems. For the moment, I just want to show ED how many people are in support of this movement. The more the signatures the better.

My personal preference would be FreeTrack as it is supported by both FreeTrack and FaceTrackNoIR, but there may be legal reasons preventing the use of the FreeTrack protocol. FreeTrack it seems is also no longer being developed, so something else for the future may be? ED has said they were building their own interface before they were stopped by NP.

By the way, have seen how many people with TrackIR systems have signed? I'm blown away by that.

There's something wrong with this petition, in my opinion. The specified alternatives for headtracking are just too many. You can't expect them to start supporting the Kinect, regular webcam and the WiiRemote. Why not focus on one interface, like FreeTrack, or FaceTrackNoIR (which isn't as good as FreeTrack, in my experience).

I'm being pedantic, but i feel a lot of you guys don't really understand the term interface. The interface that we talk about here is the part that lets the tracking program send data to the game/sim/whatever. As such, it is sort of a 'language' that both programs agree on to communicate with each other. Tracking programs can support several interfaces (just as people speak several languages), even the same one, as is the case with FreeTrack and FaceTrackNoIR, if, for example, ED were to support FreeTracks own interface, FaceTrackNoIR would automatically work with that too.

what's being sought is an Open Standard

As this following issue has not been addressed, I'll bring it up for the purposes of clarification:

.....they were asked to stop by NaturalPoint. It has not been confirmed but it is believed that Eagle Dynamics were told if they included any other system, then they were not allowed to include TrackIR......

If this is indeed the case, ie the inclusion of one system will automatically exclude TrackIr, then how can the following proposal be proffered as a possible solution?

Possible Solutions

----------------------

 

By far the best and easiest way would be if Eagle Dynamics changed their decision and included another protocol. There are methods that are very easy to implement and would not require any code or software developed by NaturalPoint.

Having regard to the first quote, inclusion of another protocol, although easy, will result in the exclusion of TrackIr.

Having regard to the first quote, inclusion of another protocol, although easy, will result in the exclusion of TrackIr.

If a significant number of people (including TrackIR users) are aware of the issue, it could turn out as bad PR for NaturalPoint, so they might overthink their contracts (yeah, i know how improbable this is, but it would by stupid not to try).

After all, there is sort of a preceding case with Bohemia Interactive where this actually worked (900+ signatures->BI implementing FreeTrack interface, NP not pulling their support).

If a significant number of people (including TrackIR users) are aware of the issue, it could turn out as bad PR for NaturalPoint, so they might overthink their contracts (yeah, i know how improbable this is, but it would by stupid not to try).

 

After all, there is sort of a preceding case with Bohemia Interactive where this actually worked (900+ signatures->BI implementing FreeTrack interface, NP not pulling their support).

I cannot help but think that to compare the BI market with the Flight Sim market is fraught with danger. In any event, as you say, it's worth a shot.

Would it not be prudent to direct this petition to NP as well? I would have thought that one should first lock horns with the primary instigator of the issue, being NP, as opposed to a third-party.

I only agree for legal products , free products that use part hacked code of legal product shouldn t be in this list.

You people would be pissed if a company took part of ED code and built a sim on it, why the hell do you support the same for other products ?