Maximus_Lazarus Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Can the Mig cruise (non burners) @ above vapor trail height ? It appears it needs afterburner to stay at that high altitude ? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Azrayen Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 I guess it may depend on its payload/weight/drag, isn't it?
Maximus_Lazarus Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 Payload was 1 fuel tank (obviously) and 6 missiles. Probably has something to do with wings being smaller , [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
pepin1234 Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Payload was 1 fuel tank (obviously) and 6 missiles. Probably has something to do with wings being smaller , Maximus dont get so worry about Mig-29S. This aircraft is extremely downgraded together with his main weapon "the R-77". The main Goal is you dont kill the "Human" pilots F-15 cuz they are from the most important regions of the world where the market for the "Simulator" are more extensive. The human F-15 pilots are almost untouchable by the Mig-29S even when this Version is the Russian one. If want to see some proof of that, please fight against an AI F-15 and you will see the Aim-120 will lose energy faster than one F-15 human Pilot. just compare two track. You against AI F15 in singler Player and You against Human pilots F-15 in multiplayer. Do a comparation between the aim-120 in both track. is a shame all that!! Edited April 20, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Maximus_Lazarus Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 Maximus dont get so worry about Mig-29S. This aircraft is extremely downgraded together with his main weapon "the R-77". The main Goal is you dont kill the "Human" pilots F-15 cuz they are from the most important regions of the world where the market for the "Simulator" are more extensive. The human F-15 pilots are almost untouchable by the Mig-29S even when this Version is the Russian one. If want to see some proof of that, please fight against an AI F-15 and you will see the Aim-120 will lose energy faster than one F-15 human Pilot. just compare two track. You against AI F15 in singler Player and You against Human pilots F-15 in multiplayer. Do a comparation between the aim-120 in both track. is a shame all that!! Actually, i DID notice that, at least i thought i did ! But from both sides though, it's like the missiles in SINGLE player lose energy a lot quicker than in multiplayer ? Must be in my head though. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
lunaticfringe Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 You know what? Let's play the Soviet/Russian fan game with flight manual charts: 1. Lazarus, quote a remaining fuel weight and an actual configuration. The drag coefficient difference between an R-60 versus an R-73 versus an R-27 or an R-77 are huge. Maximus dont get so worry about Mig-29S. This aircraft is extremely downgraded together with his main weapon "the R-77". The main Goal is you dont kill the "Human" pilots F-15 cuz they are from the most important regions of the world where the market for the "Simulator" are more extensive. [/Quote] 2. Show me a specific chart in a MiG-29 manual with the drag coefficient and weights accounted for that prove such performance is available to the Fulcrum in the configuration that Lazarus states. C'mon. Do it. Put your bias where your mouth is.
Lizzard Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 The Mig-29 is the weakest Aircraft in the Game..and the one with the least attention put to it..LOMAC Flight Model..2D Cockpit..and so on...so the flight dynamics are not really worth discusing..hopefully the Mig get`s some tuning in the future..it is simply one of the most beautiful aircrafts ever build My Specs: I don`t care..it is a Computer..a black one..
Pilotasso Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 Saying the Mig-29 is the weakest plane in-game is misleading and unfair. Your should rephrase that its the only light fighter modelled, all others are heavy air superiority fighters. The situation of the mig stems from the fact it stands alone in its class. .
Lizzard Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 The..Mig-29 is the only light Fighter in the Game but anyway..it needs some attention from ED:) My Specs: I don`t care..it is a Computer..a black one..
pepin1234 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.8 beta Added F-15C Advanced Flight Model (AFM) Added Su-33 6DOF cockpit. Su-25: SPO-15 sound is now muted when electric power is OFF. A-10A: "Minimum Speed" sound is no longer heard during repairs. MiG-29: EOS has had its detection range reduced to realistic performance levels. Russian fighters. The angular size of HUD indication was reduced to real volumes just see that. The Mig-29 now have a weakest EOS capability with the 1.2.8 beta right. With this update you can test how the Mig-29 miss the lock when the F-15 is turning back even with afterburner at 20 km. only a turn of 30° back can do missing your lock. But... also with the new 1.2.8 beta come the new AFM for the F-15, so with this AFM the F-15 pilots should do the turn back with afterburner right... (before they did the turn without afterburner, so These turn-back cold, did a lock miss right) anyway... now the F-15 should turn-back with afterburner (hot) for Keep high seep but... also the Mig-29 get the EOS downgrade with 1.2.8 beta... I have to laugh... lets party Edited April 21, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
lunaticfringe Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) just see that. No, let's see actual data to back your claims of bias; you know, delineated performance tables outlining the specific configuration and weight showing the speed which the MiG-29 can maintain level cruise at 30,000', if any. They exist. I own them. This is a simulation- aspects are going to be tuned in line with reality. If you can't cope, I hear HAWX is good for "balance". I look forward to the Su-27S AFM being released so we can listen to even more whines such as this when it doesn't simply stomp in the phone booth. Edited April 21, 2014 by lunaticfringe
winchesterdelta1 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 No Pepin. I think it's more your skill that you can't hit shit with the Mig-29 when playing online. Alot of peolpe that know the capability's of the Mig and the other planes kill alot of F-15C with Mig-29. And they are good at it. In the rigth hands the Mig-29 is a deadly weapon. Seems it is not a deadly weapon in your hands. And F-15 pilots that understand the strength of the Mig-29 and SU-27 try to minimize afterburner as much as they can. And yes that works really good when avoiding Russian birds. I don't say the Mig-29 doesn't need some work. But how you fly it the Mig-29 seems useless. And why in gods name are you complaining about the EOS being reduced to more realistic value's???? If the F-15C had the super unrealistic radar value's as the EOS had you would be going crazy and saying it's unfair. You should not laugh... You should cry by your own sadness. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
Maximus_Lazarus Posted April 21, 2014 Author Posted April 21, 2014 pretty interesting discussion this turned into . But i never had any of these "mig vs f15" thoughts when i started it. I just noticed, that i couldn't stay up in air @ 40.000 feet without afterburners in the mig. It will just gradually lose speed and start falling. If i remember, with LOMAC you couldn't do that in F15 either . Now however, you can quite easily stay up there without burners, and reach pretty good speeds as well (350 knots, just cruising @ 43000 feet, 1 outer tank, and 8 amraam's and full inner tanks). You can't move or anything cause you'll spin right out of control but i guess that's work in progress. I just thought that maybe i was doing something wrong when flying the mig. I am not sure how the mig performs in real life, but since the power to weight ratio is high (?) and since it's a very manouverable aircraft (big wings) it SHOULD be able to do it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
kk0425 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 No, let's see actual data to back your claims of bias; you know, delineated performance tables outlining the specific configuration and weight showing the speed which the MiG-29 can maintain level cruise at 30,000', if any. They exist. I own them. This is a simulation- aspects are going to be tuned in line with reality. If you can't cope, I hear HAWX is good for "balance". I look forward to the Su-27S AFM being released so we can listen to even more whines such as this when it doesn't simply stomp in the phone booth. But they will be able to do the cobra then!
SFAL Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 Few things... The mig at this time cant cruise above 12000m for a long time. We usualy have minimal burners on and at that altitude fuel wont run out quick.... but we dont go up there 9out of 10...there is no need for it really. The mig29c is a short-medium range interceptor/front line fighter. Its deployment is no more than 100km from where the shit hits the fan. No need for large fuel quantity. Diffrent aproach is needed for this bird. Understand that the migs are very dependent on GCI/datalink. Thats how they were designed. Hence the weak radar. Now the EOS system is a diffrent ballgame. And its main weapon the R77 has been subject to so many flame wars and SPECULATION that its just stupid. being a dedicated mig pilot i can tell you that if u know what ths ac is capable to and you practice its better then the 27 and some regards better then the 15. Saying that is has huge flaws agints those ac. Learn to exploit the weaknes i the other ac and focus on what the mig excels in. learn fuel managment... practice radar operation... always fly with a wingman. the 59th squadron is usualy flying on the 104th and 51st. We have cleaned house not once aginst many eagle drivers. No 6dof? Use proper neck mod...and i will say this... ED leaves the best for the last ;)
blkspade Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 Something you probably aren't accounting for is how the AI operates compared to human pilots. The AI doesn't setup shots for maximum effectiveness, and will always take the first shot at rMax. Ai opponents will always be easier than humans, when they aren't relying on cheats to make up for flawed programming. That said the F-15 is an air superiority fighter that has been incredible successful in its role IRL. How many F-15s have been shot down by MiG29s IRL? This is a simulator that tries very much to mimic real life. It should not be considered very far fetched that there would be some difficulty engaging Eagles with MiGs. I'm not half bad in the Eagle most days, but really good MiG drivers to get me from time to time. Maximus dont get so worry about Mig-29S. This aircraft is extremely downgraded together with his main weapon "the R-77". The main Goal is you dont kill the "Human" pilots F-15 cuz they are from the most important regions of the world where the market for the "Simulator" are more extensive. The human F-15 pilots are almost untouchable by the Mig-29S even when this Version is the Russian one. If want to see some proof of that, please fight against an AI F-15 and you will see the Aim-120 will lose energy faster than one F-15 human Pilot. just compare two track. You against AI F15 in singler Player and You against Human pilots F-15 in multiplayer. Do a comparation between the aim-120 in both track. is a shame all that!! http://104thphoenix.com/
GGTharos Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 I just looked at the MiG-29G/GT charts. With a loadout of 2xR-27 and 4xR-73, it should have a maximum ceiling of over 42000' (IIRC), but optimum cruise is far below this, around 36000' - all this in MIL power. The MiG-29C, being a bit heavier and possibly a touch draggier, as well as hauling potentially far heavier and far draggier weapons might not have that high of a ceiling, but that's hard to tell. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
pepin1234 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Something you probably aren't accounting for is how the AI operates compared to human pilots. The AI doesn't setup shots for maximum effectiveness, and will always take the first shot at rMax. Ai opponents will always be easier than humans, when they aren't relying on cheats to make up for flawed programming. That said the F-15 is an air superiority fighter that has been incredible successful in its role IRL. How many F-15s have been shot down by MiG29s IRL? This is a simulator that tries very much to mimic real life. It should not be considered very far fetched that there would be some difficulty engaging Eagles with MiGs. I'm not half bad in the Eagle most days, but really good MiG drivers to get me from time to time. my friend. the only you must do is set the F-15 at 30km or 25km in Singler player. Now try again what I say about the falce AFM against russian human pilots. this is the distance the F-15 human pilots use shot the Aim-120 in MP. Remember, You (RU) against AI F-15 at 30 km distance, around 5000m and 1000km/h in singler player. Then do some fight in MP You against one F-15 ( they will shot u at around 30 km ok ). After that, take both track and compare the Aim-120 Speed result... Edited April 21, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
blkspade Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 my friend. the only you must do is set the F-15 at 30km or 25km. Now try again what I say about the falce AFM against russian human pilots. I have no issue evading anyones missiles at that range, be it AI, human, eagle or otherwise. I guarantee you though most human F-15 pilots will be flying faster than AI would in a similar scenario, which translates into more missile speed. Without taking the time deeply inspect what is or isn't happening, I know that what I practice in SP works just as good in MP. http://104thphoenix.com/
pepin1234 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I have no issue evading anyones missiles at that range, be it AI, human, eagle or otherwise. I guarantee you though most human F-15 pilots will be flying faster than AI would in a similar scenario, which translates into more missile speed. Without taking the time deeply inspect what is or isn't happening, I know that what I practice in SP works just as good in MP. I have told u do the test with the AI set with the Speed, altitud and Launch human distance (30 km). Speed around 1100 Km/h, altitud around 5000/6000m, distance 30 km. The People that Play the Sim in East countries can not do the test because the Internet capability in MP. Normally they will fight against the AI so they will see all ok. I am sure you can see what I said... Note: you dont Need declare I am right. Just make the right test I told u and see both tracks, specially the Speed of the Missile in every stage :D Edited April 21, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cali Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 Someone forgot to take his pill this morning. Someone needs to take a look back and see what has happened to all these aircraft and then they'll know which ones had stuff they shouldn't of had and some were missing important ones. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Esac_mirmidon Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I was looking also the Mig-29G perfomance tables. For a Mig-29G with 4 R-73 + 2 R-27R + Center Tank + Gun Ammo = 17.000 Kg + 360 Drag Index. Maximum ceiling at military thrust is 35.000 feet more or less and Optimum cruise of 33.500 feet. The German ones had the engines a little detuned so a Russian Mig-29A could do it a little bit better. Edited April 21, 2014 by Esac_mirmidon " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
SAM77 Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I wonder why ED never created a flyable F16/F18 for the LockOn/FC series. F16/F18 at Mig29 standard would be good enough. Spoiler Intel i7 14700F | 64GB G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black SN770 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI B760 Tomahawk WIFI | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 11 Home |
pepin1234 Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) I wonder why ED never created a flyable F16/F18 for the LockOn/FC series. F16/F18 at Mig29 standard would be good enough. I think was a good Balance make fighters with non guided weapons capability... untill now. The community ask for a multiroll and one F-18 is a good choice. Anyway F-16/F-18 are not better A-A fighters than F-15, so... Mig-29S can against them, but of course will be really hard with this R-77 like that. We expect new Missiles AFM everytime. It is the best way to be partial when we talk about Balanced Forces... Edited May 3, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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