4c Hajduk Veljko Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 They've been flying over other mountains just fine for years. What happened there was a training accident.Sure. Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! (see GG's signature) Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratos Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I agree 100% with ShuRugal! I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Keep in mind that the 2 Operational Kamovs in the Chechen conflict had their own 'mini-AWACS' (Ka-29) flying with them, imperative for situational awareness, target hand-off/designation etc etc. They did not operate alone. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrim Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) ^^ Sort of like how the Marine Corps M-60 Patton tanks were pared up with Abrams tanks in the Gulf war; It did not speak to their benefit. Let's face it. The Ka-50 has a very small FOV sensor compared to any other modern attack helicopter, and it relies on an autopilot to ease the workload of having a single pilot. Unless the pilot sets his autopilot on flying a zig-zag route, he's just not going to see very much with anything else than his MK1 Eyeballs. If the Ka-50 had been a sound concept, I don't think the Russian military would've ordered over 4x as many Mi-28s, an attack helicopter that is probably more fair to compare to the AH-64. Edited May 8, 2014 by Scrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsumikae Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Let's see. FLIR. So, the ability to do something at night. A decent FOV. The A variant TADS is more or less the same stuff as the SHKVAL, and indeed the PNVS allows for night operation, while the former SHKVAL does not. Ok. The A had no GPS and from what I read, no datalink either. So maybe telling that the AH 64 A has vastly superior sensors is a bit exagerated. But, I'm no specialist, maybe you are and I should know better than arguing with you. In the unlikely event of those two meeting each other (in the past), I would rather be in my couch, at a bazillion kilometers from the duel site than in any of them anyway. But considering that the KA is faster, more maneuvrable and the vikhrs are also faster than the hellfires and have slightly more range, I envy your confidence about chosing tha Apache over the Shark. I really think you'd rather stay in your couch as well :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Reading this thread makes my head hurt. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The A variant TADS is more or less the same stuff as the SHKVAL, and indeed the PNVS allows for night operation, while the former SHKVAL does not. Ok. The A variant TADS had FLIR and it has a much, much wider gimbals. The A had no GPS and from what I read, no datalink either. So maybe telling that the AH 64 A has vastly superior sensors is a bit exagerated. But, I'm no specialist, maybe you are and I should know better than arguing with you.They were vastly superior. An AH-64A could pick up a target that a Ka-50 would just not know is there. By the time the Ka-50 was equipped with ABRIS, the 64A was pretty tricked out. But considering that the KA is faster, more maneuvrable and the vikhrs are also faster than the hellfires and have slightly more range, I envy your confidence about chosing tha Apache over the Shark. I really think you'd rather stay in your couch as well :DConsidering that the KA isn't that much faster not that much more maneuverable, and the fact that the Ka must remain pointed at its target while the Apache can generate more than 100 degree aspect while guiding, AND the fact that the vikhrs won't get there faster than hellfires, nor go much further (surprise, huh?), I'd take the apache too. :) And I didn't even get to the fact that while the KA pilot has to now think about abandoning the target if the Shkval is dazzled, while the apache CPG can reacquire ... Of course, this is all pie in the sky :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Without thinking of effectiveness I'd prefer Ka-50. It is the only one that has an ejection seat. :D Intel i7-14700@5.6GHz | MSI RTX4080 Super SuprimX | Corsair V. 32GB@6400MHz. | Samsung 1TB 990 PRO SSD (Win10Homex64) Samsung G5 32" + Samsung 18" + 2x8"TFT Displays | Saitek X-55 Rhino & Rudder | TM MFD Cougars | Logitech G13, G230, G510, PZ55 & Farming Sim Panel | TIR5 >>MY MODS<< | Discord: Devrim#1068 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I'd take an autorotation every day of the week over the risk of one of those 6 rotor blades on a presumably very badly battle damaged Ka-50 not being blown off when I eject :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REPUBLICANO Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 AND the fact that the vikhrs won't get there faster than hellfires, nor go much further (surprise, huh?), I'd take the apache too. :) And I didn't even get to the fact that while the KA pilot has to now think about abandoning the target if the Shkval is dazzled, while the apache CPG can reacquire ... Of course, this is all pie in the sky :) Sorry but the hellfire missile can't be shoot in very low altitude and is not faster than the ka-50 missiles. The ka-50 have not the technology of the apache. BUT... a good pilot with a Ka-50 can do more than an Apache. The gun of the ka-50 is clear more powerful than the Apache one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Sorry but the hellfire missile can't be shoot in very low altitude and is not faster than the ka-50 missiles. The Vikhr has higher initial peak speed, but time to max distance is about the same as for a hellfire, IIRC. and Yes, hellfire can be shot at very low altitude. This is the price you pay for having a rolling airframe missile and corkscrewing through the air. The ka-50 have not the technology of the apache. BUT... a good pilot with a Ka-50 can do more than an Apache. The gun of the ka-50 is clear more powerful than the Apache one. No, he can't do more than an apache no matter how much he wants to. The Apache can find targets where the Ka-50 cannot, just to begin with. It can sense threats that the Ka-50 cannot. And the two guns have very different purpose. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENO Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Out of literal curiosity- care to elaborate on that last remark about purpose? 1 "ENO" Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret. "Sweetest's" Military Aviation Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) Well but the 80s Technology designators of Ka-50 have become old. Apache have Better night sensors than the Ka-50, Radar, RWR. All that is Technology that can not be compared betwen two Helis, when the American competitor have been updated and the Ka-50 proyect have been stoped. Ka-50 is super maneuverable compared with the Apache, Faster, more range. The Ejection Seat is amazing and the coaxial rotor is the best solution for an attack helicopter. Maybe the laser and guided antitank weapons is not the best Technology for a single Seat Helicopter. A Shoot and Forget Missile System should be the best antitank weapon for an single-seat attack helicopter. "Hermes" Missile go in this direction. Edited May 9, 2014 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I'd take an autorotation every day of the week over the risk of one of those 6 rotor blades on a presumably very badly battle damaged Ka-50 not being blown off when I eject :PInteresting choice. So you would take Apache's autorotation over Black Shark six blades? Wow, I never though about that. Can you please elaborate, what kind of feature is autorotaion? I wonder if this is unique feature of Apache. Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 And the two guns have very different purpose.:) However, you might be right. Shark's cannon is used for destroying targets, everything from soft targets to armored vehicles. What is Apaches gun (what's the caliber of it) for? Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! (see GG's signature) Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sceptre Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks for the replies guys, some really interesting reading and you all answered my original question, cheers RTX 2070 8GB | 32GB DDR4 2666 RAM | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2Ghz | Asrock X570 | CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle | TM MFDs | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Also noticed during airshows, that coaxial helicopters generate much more noise, than tail rotor ones (compared Mi-28 and Ka-52). "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) I think the KA-50 is not really compareable to other Attack Helicopters ....its to much aside. Maybe thats exact what i like on it. And like i have written before nobody know what they did with it during Development ( I remember a Picture with 3 MFDs inside a KA-50). They did Build 25 of it...and not one ....is the same like the other. DCS here Simulates the first version with Combat ability. Thats something like Software version1.0 . Also much aspects will be set to Pilots skill and knowledge also like the situation. Edited May 9, 2014 by Isegrim "Blyat Naaaaa" - Izlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 They did Build 25 of it...and not one ....is the same like the other. DCS here Simulates the first version with Combat ability. Thats something like Software version1.0 . With version 1.0 you would have paper map on the ABRIS place. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sceptre Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 @Frogfoot you said that coaxial rotor helicopters produce more noise? This is interesting as I thought it wasn't the case. The ingame Ka-50 seems extremely quiet... I wouldn't really know for sure as New Zealand doesn't have any coaxial rotor choppers :) RTX 2070 8GB | 32GB DDR4 2666 RAM | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2Ghz | Asrock X570 | CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle | TM MFDs | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsumikae Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 They were vastly superior. An AH-64A could pick up a target that a Ka-50 would just not know is there. By the time the Ka-50 was equipped with ABRIS, the 64A was pretty tricked out. Gimbal is strictly mechanical, and if you throw that in the balance, we'll have to leave the strictly sensor-ish argumentation. Still, "vastly" is exagerated. That word would fit more in a comparison between a KA-50 and a D variant. Considering that the KA isn't that much faster not that much more maneuverable, and the fact that the Ka must remain pointed at its target while the Apache can generate more than 100 degree aspect while guiding, AND the fact that the vikhrs won't get there faster than hellfires, nor go much further (surprise, huh?), I'd take the apache too. :) And I didn't even get to the fact that while the KA pilot has to now think about abandoning the target if the Shkval is dazzled, while the apache CPG can reacquire ...Yes, that's a surprise, I haven't read anything like that yet. But I'll take your word for it, as your sources are without a doubt way more accurate that the even above average internet research results :D Of course, this is all pie in the sky :)Indeed, and again, I'd rather have some in my plate, sitting in my desk chair in front of DCS, instead of actually testing the theories for myself in real life, no matter in which helo :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 With version 1.0 you would have paper map on the ABRIS place. So its already 1.1...:thumbup: "Blyat Naaaaa" - Izlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Interesting choice. So you would take Apache's autorotation over Black Shark six blades? Wow, I never though about that. Can you please elaborate, what kind of feature is autorotaion? I wonder if this is unique feature of Apache. If you have to argue against an obvious joke, you're obviously just arguing out of bias, or trying to pick a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) If you have to argue against an obvious joke, you're obviously just arguing out of bias, or trying to pick a fight. It simply depends on Damage. Im sure you would also like to have an ejection seat as a real Pilot if you feel you are still alive but the sound of the mainrotor is missing somehow and you are still 300 feet over ground. Autorotation without mainrotor is extremly hard to manage. Without ejection seat the unofficial Handbook here says *Open Cockpit and move your arms very very fast*. Edited May 9, 2014 by Isegrim "Blyat Naaaaa" - Izlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsumikae Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Autorotation without mainrotor is extremly hard to manage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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