Bug Reports / Testing Process / Updates?

[ENO]

At one point they had introduced DCSW in a relative beta format, Combined Arms and FC3... all in beta at the same time.

 

How anyone expected anything not to be riddled with gaps as a result is beyond me. How do you fix something when you never, ever had anything solid to build from starting from 1.2.0. and the intro of DCSW.

 

Soon we'll have at least 2 new beta platforms- Hawk / Mig 21- introduced on a platform riddled with problems... then we're going to introduce a brand new graphics engine.

 

Not sure where we're going to go from here- but we'll definitely find ourselves in dark but interesting times.

[NineLine]

Well most of the beta responsibilities for the Hawk and the MiG will be on those development teams.

[GGTharos]

For the reasons that were mentioned, the bug tracker won't be opened up to the public. Period, end of story.

It doesn't matter how configurable it is, it's function is to be an internal bug tracker. There have been enough leaks in the past, don't need more due to mistakes. To add to this, just like here, everyone will just be posting about their favorite bug not being addressed.

 

ED needs to make money to survive, so resources are assigned where required to make this happen. Stuff will tend to get left behind when this happens, and them's the breaks. Do they come back and try to fix older things? You bet, but there's limited time/money, and it won't always be the thing that you want fixed.

 

If you want to host your own community bug tracker in the hope that ED will be looking into it, go right ahead but don't expect much - the devs are quite busy. They're not quiet because they're trying to blow you off, they're simply doing work.

 

Such systems are usually widely configurable - this issue should (heh, yeah, assumption :o) be one of the less problematic ones.

Edited May 27, 2014 by GGTharos

[Winfield_Gold]

Do the English speaking ED Testers liaise with their Russian speaking counter parts when it comes to bug reports and testing process?

 

It would be quite confusing if the english testers where working on the bugs in the top half of the ED forums and the Russian counterparts where only working on the bugs reported on their end of the forums.

 

If I download the russian versions of DCS World do I get different updates? maybe the russians already have EDGE and us English people are still coding it. I'm not going to download the Russian version as I don't quite speak or understand 1 word of it, maybe a tester can fill me and others in regarding the difference between Russian and English testers

[NineLine]

Do the English speaking ED Testers liaise with their Russian speaking counter parts when it comes to bug reports and testing process?

 

It would be quite confusing if the english testers where working on the bugs in the top half of the ED forums and the Russian counterparts where only working on the bugs reported on their end of the forums.

 

If I download the russian versions of DCS World do I get different updates? maybe the russians already have EDGE and us English people are still coding it. I'm not going to download the Russian version as I don't quite speak or understand 1 word of it, maybe a tester can fill me and others in regarding the difference between Russian and English testers

 

 

We all test together as one unit, no one has different updates than anyone else.

[Flagrum]

For the reasons that were mentioned, the bug tracker won't be opened up to the public. Period, end of story.

It doesn't matter how configurable it is, it's function is to be an internal bug tracker. There have been enough leaks in the past, don't need more due to mistakes. To add to this, just like here, everyone will just be posting about their favorite bug not being addressed.

 

ED needs to make money to survive, so resources are assigned where required to make this happen. Stuff will tend to get left behind when this happens, and them's the breaks. Do they come back and try to fix older things? You bet, but there's limited time/money, and it won't always be the thing that you want fixed.

 

If you want to host your own community bug tracker in the hope that ED will be looking into it, go right ahead but don't expect much - the devs are quite busy. They're not quiet because they're trying to blow you off, they're simply doing work.

And for counter arguments that were mentioned ... ?

 

But allright, so we won't be seeing all bugs and therefore quickly lose interest in bugs we can't read about ... We won't try to intervene if we think, things are going into a sub-optimal direction.

 

The thing is, basically we all want the same: less (servere) bugs, a better product. What else can we do instead? Or can't we do anything - is the process already the best we can get? :huh:

[159th_Viper]

What else can we do instead? Or can't we do anything - is the process already the best we can get? :huh:

 

Do what you have been asked to do: Report bugs, if you so choose, in the relevant provided for forums, sub-forums and let the mods/testers worry about the rest. ED have been doing this for 20 years already so yes, at this stage and for this particular set of circumstances it is the best that you will get because it is what works for ED.

 

As I mentioned before, without the bigger picture it is very easy for me to see where all these 'arguments' for better access fail at the outset even though they make perfect sense for those arguing without the benefit of the 'bigger picture' (and no, I do not care to elaborate as this will no doubt further fuel a thread that has long ago outlived it's usefulness).

[Flagrum]

(...) its a small team, and that goes for us in Testing and moderation, so we try, but posts like yours are dis-heartening...

Why do you feel that way? I think, no one of us is criticising you or "the testers". We all know that you can do only so much and if there is one thread missing a [tag] then not because you are all a lazy bunch of guys. I think, everyone appreciates your voluntary effords and time investments.

 

All this is rather about the whole process as such and how we all can probably utilize the available tools - and community "manpower" - best.

 

On the other hand, ...

Do what you have been asked to do: Report bugs, if you so choose, in the relevant provided for forums, sub-forums and let the mods/testers worry about the rest. ED have been doing this for 20 years already so yes, at this stage and for this particular set of circumstances it is the best that you will get because it is what works for ED.

... disheartens me a bit: no room for improvement. Sad.

[159th_Viper]

 

... disheartens me a bit: no room for improvement. Sad.

 

And who said that? Certainly not me, but I suppose that that is the inherent danger of the written word capable of being interpreted in a myriad of ways to suite one's particular agenda. Never mind, suffice to say that there's always room for improvement and said improvements are always made/are happening behind the scenes.

 

What is important for you and all the rest to remember is that said improvements and implementation thereof are not going to happen on your say-so/at your behest/according to your timetable.

[Flagrum]

And who said that? Certainly not me, but I suppose that that is the inherent danger of the written word capable of being interpreted in a myriad of ways to suite one's particular agenda. Never mind, suffice to say that there's always room for improvement and said improvements are always made/are happening behind the scenes.

 

What is important for you and all the rest to remember is that said improvements and implementation thereof are not going to happen on your say-so/at your behest/according to your timetable.

"yes, at this stage and for this particular set of circumstances it is the best that you will get" - aka no substancial improvements.

 

Allright, under the "current circumstances" ... but then, this means, we can't even influence the circumstances? If not on our behest (which never anyone meant), then perhaps on considering the communitie's suggestions?

[159th_Viper]

... but then, this means, we can't even influence the circumstances?

 

If this entire debate was original then it would have been a different story. Fact is this argument crops up every year or two with the same submissions by different authors so don't worry, the community's suggestions are always heard.

[Flagrum]

If this entire debate was original then it would have been a different story. Fact is this argument crops up every year or two with the same submissions by different authors so don't worry, the community's suggestions are always heard.

Several people have independently (more or less) the same idea for improving things - to me a sign that they might be up to something ...

 

But anyways, this thread is not only about the "open the bugtracker!" idea - it was just the most obvious. What else could probably be done to get rid of that feeling that reporting bugs is like throwing them into a big black hole?

[159th_Viper]

What else could probably be done to get rid of that feeling that reporting bugs is throwing them into a big black hole?

 

Trust.

 

As simple as that.

 

It's humbling to sit where I am and actually appreciate the shitload of work and effort that goes on behind-the-scenes to stay on top of everything. Also just as unfortunate that others cannot, which would probably have saved us the effort of clawing our way to 12 pages and counting.

 

Nothing more to say really, apart from yet again confirming that reporting bugs as requested really aids in troubleshooting and is appreciated: Definitely no Big Black Hole.

[BIGNEWY]

Trust.

 

As simple as that.

 

It's humbling to sit where I am and actually appreciate the shitload of work and effort that goes on behind-the-scenes to stay on top of everything. Also just as unfortunate that others cannot, which would probably have saved us the effort of clawing our way to 12 pages and counting.

 

Nothing more to say really, apart from yet again confirming that reporting bugs as requested really aids in troubleshooting and is appreciated: Definitely no Big Black Hole.

 

+1 As a new tester, I am amazed by the amount of work that goes on.

[Winfield_Gold]

+1 As a new tester, I am amazed by the amount of work that goes on.

 

Care to give us less fortunate's a run down? As stated in an earlier post, testers mainly test with little more to offer the people behind the scenes.

 

Interested to know why some of these behind the scenes people don't show more of an interested in these forums? Seems the testers and moderators don't offer much insight as to was it being worked on and what is in the process of being fixed.

 

From my perspective, seems VEAO and the mig mob pay more attention to their fans questions and progress logs and they have not yet released a module which is in the paid form. IMO, ED Execs should offer Pman a PR job as he is doing a fine job over on the 3rd party thread. Someone who is "behind the scenes" not a tester or moderator but someone in the "know"

 

ED really needs someone to take this onboard. Be nice to have a progress log of the bugs being reported other than OPEN, REPORTED & CLOSED in the bug threads.

 

Seems reasonable.....

[BIGNEWY]

Care to give us less fortunate's a run down? As stated in an earlier post, testers mainly test with little more to offer the people behind the scenes.

 

Interested to know why some of these behind the scenes people don't show more of an interested in these forums? Seems the testers and moderators don't offer much insight as to was it being worked on and what is in the process of being fixed.

 

From my perspective, seems VEAO and the mig mob pay more attention to their fans questions and progress logs and they have not yet released a module which is in the paid form. IMO, ED Execs should offer Pman a PR job as he is doing a fine job over on the 3rd party thread. Someone who is "behind the scenes" not a tester or moderator but someone in the "know"

 

ED really needs someone to take this onboard. Be nice to have a progress log of the bugs being reported other than OPEN, REPORTED & CLOSED in the bug threads.

 

Seems reasonable.....

 

Honestly, it is not my place to give anyone the low down, I enjoy being a tester helping the ED team and helping the community where I can.

 

As a new guy to the team I can tell you that having signed an NDA with ED I would not want to say anything that would jeopardize my place in the team, which has a knock on effect to my posting frequency on these forums, as they can be a little hostile sometimes.

 

You have to remember the tester's are unpaid volunteers who give a lot of time to DCS, asking them to give more info is a little unfair in my opinion as it is not their role here.

[DAZnBLAST]

This latest 1.2.8 including the latest 1.2.8 beta has managed to break the Vikhr missile targeting system. Laser on, I can see "TA" and distance data to target in the Shkval screen, when I fire, the Vikhr just randomly flies to ground, I fire again and the second hits. Sometimes the first will hit and the next TA it doesn't. The system is intermittent now.

 

IMO the best module is now broken!

[159th_Viper]

This latest 1.2.8 including the latest 1.2.8 beta has managed to break the Vikhr missile targeting system. Laser on, I can see "TA" and distance data to target in the Shkval screen, when I fire, the Vikhr just randomly flies to ground, I fire again and the second hits. Sometimes the first will hit and the next TA it doesn't. The system is intermittent now.

 

IMO the best module is now broken!

 

User error.

 

Post a track and we'll happily assist and inform you where you are erring. Wind is usually a factor but not always.

[DAZnBLAST]

User error? I'm not talking about manual guide here, I'm talking auto with 6.5km - 7.5km distance to target. Never noticed this behaviour in 1.2.7

 

I'll see if I can grab a track with it happening.

[159th_Viper]

User error?

 

Yes.

 

It just means that your aircraft attitude at launch is such that the missile cannot timeously intercept the laser grid/cube and start guiding to target. In the absence of said laser cube it goes ballistic and 'flies to ground'. Point is that it's not random at all - happens for the reason as aforesaid.

[Flagrum]

User error? I'm not talking about manual guide here, I'm talking auto with 6.5km - 7.5km distance to target. Never noticed this behaviour in 1.2.7

 

I'll see if I can grab a track with it happening.

And post it in the proper bugs&problems forum, please. :o)

[sorcer3r]

Several people have independently (more or less) the same idea for improving things - to me a sign that they might be up to something ...

 

But anyways, this thread is not only about the "open the bugtracker!" idea - it was just the most obvious. What else could probably be done to get rid of that feeling that reporting bugs is like throwing them into a big black hole?

 

I won't argue against you but we should not forget that the introduction of the open beta was an improvement.

But IMO it was a failure to finish the 128beta so quick and in a state worse than 1.2.7.

In such a way the open beta is not really needed. So ED could start there to improve the situation and handle the open beta better.

[GGTharos]

No, you can't do anything. ED already reviews how they do things every year, and that is why there have been changes, and there will be in the future. But as far as dealing with bugs, I don't see the bug tracker being opened. It's internal, and that's how it will be.

 

And for counter arguments that were mentioned ... ?

 

But allright, so we won't be seeing all bugs and therefore quickly lose interest in bugs we can't read about ... We won't try to intervene if we think, things are going into a sub-optimal direction.

 

The thing is, basically we all want the same: less (servere) bugs, a better product. What else can we do instead? Or can't we do anything - is the process already the best we can get? :huh:

[Ranger79]

Just by the amount of attention this topic brings will hopefully show ED how the community feels and possibly make changes in the future. I think we can all agree (mods, test team, devs, customer community) that the ultimate goal is a stable platform and the best combat flight sim possible.

[GGTharos]

Yes. This is why the public beta was put in place for example.

 

Like I said, ED always reviews things. There are some things that just won't happen (IMHO, and I think I have a good read on that) like opening the bug tracker, but even without this there is always room for improvement.

 

Just by the amount of attention this topic brings will hopefully show ED how the community feels and possibly make changes in the future. I think we can all agree (mods, test team, devs, customer community) that the ultimate goal is a stable platform and the best combat flight sim possible.