Maximus_Lazarus Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) -elKZvGC6bQ This happens so much. Seems all you need to do is get low, and you become untouchable . :mad: Not to discredit the other pilot btw, because he incredible pilot and 10x better than i am as everybody knows. That is part of the reason i was so angry when i saw the tacview cause i would have LOVED to have shot him :D Edited June 8, 2014 by Maximus_Lazarus [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Maximus_Lazarus Posted June 8, 2014 Author Posted June 8, 2014 0.1 seconds before impact ? Missile tracked all the way, right untill impact. You can still notch when THAT close to missile ? I honestly think there is a problem with low level tracking in general, this happens in all angles not just from the sides unfortunately [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
TAW_Blaze Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Of course you can, however a number of things can be said: 1) AMRAAM in DCS doesn't get any support from your lock post pitbull, this is not true at all IRL. 2) AMRAAM in DCS doesn't fly to last known intercept point once losing lock, this is also not true at all IRL. Instead it'll go ballistic. Common sense would indicate to guide to last known intercept point and then detonate. 3) AMRAAM in DCS seems to never detonate when guidance is lost due to chaff (well, this is most definitely a result of the two above). In this scenario you should: A) be in STT, TWS will lose him due to the lack of radar memory model B) fire an AIM-7/9, I'd recommend the latter because the Sparrow can give away your position and result in you getting spammed to death from a burning wreck. Simulation eh.. Other than that, he used the game mechanics pretty well, you didn't. :)
lunaticfringe Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Not only is it the notch, but that is a huge amount of ground return he's presenting to the weapon. At the point he went perpendicular, he was on a few hundred feet off the ground. The net effect is like filling a letter sized page with 50% gray, and a half inch square in that field somewhere with 49.5% gray, and asking a viewer to find the difference in less than one second. Not going to happen.
winchesterdelta1 Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 This is not even that bad. I have seen AIM-120's and AIM-7's that i shot maneuvre straight into the ground after 2 seconds off tracking while the target itself was in line of sight. And no it was not tracking chaff. Those missiles almost did a 90 degrees turn into the ground for no reason. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
winchesterdelta1 Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 PS that was a real STUGE attack. If you fire at him and you miss you better run :) Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
SFJackBauer Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Not even tried a gun kill? Doing an immelman at that situation is not a good choice either.
Kenan Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 1. I love your in-video comments. :D 2. The guy was lucky. That's pretty much it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commanding Officer of: 2nd Company 1st financial guard battalion "Mrcine" See our squads here and our . Croatian radio chat for DCS World
Frostie Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Getting so close you should have gone for guns or dive into the safety of the mountains for your escape. By climbing high and away you gave him the perfect heat signature for him to lock onto. You had the choice of a perfect exit into the valleys to your right, why you climbed over him I've no idea. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
joey45 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Ground clutter? The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
159th_Viper Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 what's up......... Schooled. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Maximus_Lazarus Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) 1. I love your in-video comments. :D 2. The guy was lucky. That's pretty much it. :D Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words lol If the missile was "notched" , it wasn't on purpose. Me climbing high, well, i was going so fast i couldn't dive, a turn would have took a million years, so as i was stunned with disbelief i just went up hoping he'd try to find me low while i could hopefully make my escape :helpsmilie: Damn you vertical scan mode :mad::D I sure as hell am not confident enough to go guns on a target that has a bunch of IR missiles hanging on his wings, while i myself am completely out of missiles. Also i can't dogfight for cr^p :d Edited June 9, 2014 by Maximus_Lazarus [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
TAW_Blaze Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 If the missile was "notched" , it wasn't on purpose.
Exorcet Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 :D Me climbing high, well, i was going so fast i couldn't dive, a turn would have took a million years, so as i was stunned with disbelief i just went up hoping he'd try to find me low while i could hopefully make my escape :helpsmilie: Try to manage your speed. You probably could have overflown low and made it into the valley past the second set of mountains. Also, the Russian RWR tells you whether you're locked from above or below. I sure as hell am not confident enough to go guns on a target that has a bunch of IR missiles hanging on his wings, while i myself am completely out of missiles. Also i can't dogfight for cr^p :d This might have been a situation where not having missiles wouldn't have hurt very much. At least if you want guns you'd have him in front of you, missiles pointing away from you. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
=Pedro= Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 INDEED!!!:lol: Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Asus TUF OC RTX 4090 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb G2 | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds
USARStarkey Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 No "wat" I agree with Lazarus here. Its unlikely he knew the exact location of that missile in order to notch it. All he does in the video just before the notch is fly straight and the result is a notch when the missile is just about to hit. That missile was tracking right up to the last second, if that was an intentional notch, the stuge was basically hoping that the final intercept vector would be in the notch. Sorry, but I don't think anyone's spacial reasoning skills are so good that he could know with absolute certainty that it would go 90deg just before impact and miss. Its not impossible that he did it on purpose, but I seriously doubt that. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Weed Be gone Needed
TAW_Blaze Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 No "wat" I agree with Lazarus here. Its unlikely he knew the exact location of that missile in order to notch it. All he does in the video just before the notch is fly straight and the result is a notch when the missile is just about to hit. That missile was tracking right up to the last second, if that was an intentional notch, the stuge was basically hoping that the final intercept vector would be in the notch. Sorry, but I don't think anyone's spacial reasoning skills are so good that he could know with absolute certainty that it would go 90deg just before impact and miss. Its not impossible that he did it on purpose, but I seriously doubt that. 1) AMRAAMs are not so difficult to spot visually when the motor is burning at that range. Especially when you know where to look. Below is why that can be easy: 2) He probably knew where it was coming from since the russian RWR is very accurate at this. IIRC it'll also shows pretty well where the missile is. 3) He probably flew straight because he knew where the missile was. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that he /might/ have gotten lucky, but it's not too likely. Honestly, as long as your blaming your mistakes on luck you'll be stuck an awful pilot. That's just how it works. There's n+1 things that he could have done to counter the notch but he did none of it, what is the real point of blaming it on something else? In the end it doesn't matter if he got lucky or not, the point is if you're learning something or not. Making mistakes on top of mistakes and then blaming it all on luck just doesn't cut it.
USARStarkey Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Im not trying to justify any of laz's tactical decision's. I just think that seeing that missile would have been very hard even if you knew where to look because of how this game renders things. Even if he did see it, at that range, he would have to perform a near perfect notch(which he did) and since he just flew straight he was basically hoping it would turn into a notch at the last moment. IE: If that was intentional, then he was making a guess that if he flew straight he might go into the notch relative to the missiles path at the last second. If that was his plan, the that took some balls, because the reverse could just have easily have happened. He would have had no way of knowing if that was going to work until it would have been to late to try something else. Sometimes, tactics like that are whats needed to get the job done. Either way, whether he did it that way on purpose or not, that took a considerable amount of luck. Just to reiterate, Im not defending laz'z flying at all, just commenting on the endgame mechanics regarding that kill. Laz could have done all sorts of things differently. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Weed Be gone Needed
*Rage* Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 It was a good notch. It is possible to do at that range if he knew the bearing of the launch. Also he was very low. No doubt he was lucky to survive the engagement though. He should have been splashed by guns/heaters. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
GGTharos Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) :D Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words lol If the missile was "notched" , it wasn't on purpose. Sure it was. Why not? The first thing you do is go into the notch. Me climbing high, well, i was going so fast i couldn't dive, a turn would have took a million years, so as i was stunned with disbelief i just went up hoping he'd try to find me low while i could hopefully make my escape :helpsmilie:Why were going 'so fast' anyway? Why weren't you ready to hit the brakes when you saw the range collapse and prepare for a merge? Why were you not looking at the bandit when overflying him so you could see and decoy the incoming? Why weren't you throwing out decoys anyway? I sure as hell am not confident enough to go guns on a target that has a bunch of IR missiles hanging on his wings, while i myself am completely out of missiles. Also i can't dogfight for cr^p :dWhat can you do? Start training BFM. Now. Remove all missiles, guns only ALL THE WAY until you get the hang of it and don't even think about doing anything else until you get the hang of it. Then you can start working on WVR with missiles and move out to BVR procedures. Instead of blaming the missiles (they're not blameless, but in this case the problem lies with you), start thinking about how you're going to approach the fight. You only have one missile left? Maybe should not try to close with a bandit so hard if you don't want the merge - in fact, why didn't you turn around and leave after launching the missile? There's no guarantee of hit. Edited June 9, 2014 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Not really. Could've easily gone guns on him if he just carefully pressed the attack. Better if he had sidewinders. PS that was a real STUGE attack. If you fire at him and you miss you better run :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Maximus_Lazarus Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 Honestly, i was just so sure that that missile would hit. The way i saw it, there was no escape for him. I didn't even plan further ahead because of it. Just wanted to get as close as possible and give the missile as much speed as possible , then when i saw him turning i was like "ok he's dead now MUHAHAHA" . Then i was all like :huh:, and then like :joystick: , and then :doh: He was kind enough to send me some tracks of him flying, it's pretty amazing to see , and i'm learning a lot from them (only 2 striker kills , 1 lost credit kill, and 1 guy quit on me after being splashed ) I shall practice BVR intensively for about a month , then move on to WVR . THEN YOU ALL DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! j/k :noexpression: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
blkspade Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 :D Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words lol If the missile was "notched" , it wasn't on purpose. Me climbing high, well, i was going so fast i couldn't dive, a turn would have took a million years, so as i was stunned with disbelief i just went up hoping he'd try to find me low while i could hopefully make my escape :helpsmilie: Damn you vertical scan mode :mad::D I sure as hell am not confident enough to go guns on a target that has a bunch of IR missiles hanging on his wings, while i myself am completely out of missiles. Also i can't dogfight for cr^p :d If your immediate response is to try and turn around inside of 6nm from a flanker once you're out of missiles, you should just eject. In most cases you would have taken an ET trying to get away up there. At the range you were at after you most likely saw your missile hit the hill, you should have just pressed in. Your chances would have been good to get inside of rMin. You'd have had a good advantage, and at least make him earn it as opposed to just bending over. If you ever get that close without receiving any return fire, you eat him for breakfast. I want guys to go for the notch vs a 120 at that range, its the ones that defeat them head on and keep coming at you that are the real problem. Those ones tend to be more susceptible to the Aim-7 oddly enough. http://104thphoenix.com/
Maximus_Lazarus Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 rofl yeah i feel very uncomfortable when getting WVR. Mostly because i can't see crap, other people must have better eyes, i see them looking at something (in tracks for instance) , and even than i just can't see the bandit. Then when i press my face literally against the screen i can make them out :mad: Maybe i should practice WVR against A.I, with labels on, to get an idea of the paths followed after merge , to get a rough idea where an enemy should be after i pass him at a certain angle [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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