July 2014 Update #1

[NineLine]

The problem isn't to choose any planes. We already paid ED for the P51D outside the KS and now we will received a second useless key and that's called compensation.

 

Its not perfect... there was no perfect solution. Its not to say ED cant make adjustments.

[jinroh]

They could at least impose another aircraft than the P51 on the list for those who can proove they bought the P51 outside the KS.

[tobaschi]

No, if my friend promises you something for $10 and once he gets the money he walks away then you are crazy to believe I'm legally obligated to give you whatever my mate was going to give you.

 

that compare does not match in this case

 

-1

[eekz]

The problem isn't to choose any planes. We already paid ED for the P51D outside the KS and now we will received a second useless key and that's called compensation.

 

And what about people who have already got P-51D keys from Luthier? That would be unfair towards them to give others an option to choose a plane while they did not have such an option for same money.

[tobaschi]

And what about people who have already got P-51D keys from Luthier? That would be unfair towards them to give others an option to choose a plane while they did not have such an option for same money.

 

thats why the people should be free to choose the aircraft ...................

[NineLine]

thats why the people should be free to choose the aircraft ...................

 

He is saying some already received their P-51 key from the KS....

[Dogz]

ED didnt make this mess, they are only trying to make it better the best they can.... far as I can tell with the reward setup they are doin not to bad... again... you are making it sound like all these KS promises were from ED... they were not.

 

Well, I could refer to my football shoe design dream, if somebody seriously says that ED had nothing to do with the project at all. But that is a different story really.

 

The main point is still, why would ED want to slap their customers in the face? Customers that could continue bringing more money for years to come, but now might turn their backs to the developed because they feel mistreated. Especially considering how relatively small amounts we are talking about, compared to the negative PR effect. ED is using the work that has been at least partially done by the money invested by these same people. It will make and keep the profits on the money that was invested by KS backers.

[Jona33]

that compare does not match in this case

 

-1

 

It precisely compares, ED and RRG were mates, they were partners and RRG had been in the game for a while. I doubt that ED had to oversee everything they did. RRG promised something and couldn't deliver. Legally ED could have said "Shame on you suckers" and sodded off. As it happens they didn't.

[tobaschi]

He is saying some already received their P-51 key from the KS....

 

the difference is, they selected that option on the kickstarter campaign, but it seems the majority selected the option to choose which aircraft they wanna, you can see the numbers on the kickstarter site

[tobaschi]

It precisely compares, ED and RRG were mates, they were partners and RRG had been in the game for a while. I doubt that ED had to oversee everything they did. RRG promised something and couldn't deliver. Legally ED could have said "Shame on you suckers" and sodded off. As it happens they didn't.

 

no it does not. ED did benefit directly and indirect from the KS money.

[NineLine]

Well, I could refer to my football shoe design dream, if somebody seriously says that ED had nothing to do with the project at all. But that is a different story really.

 

The main point is still, why would ED want to slap their customers in the face? Customers that could continue bringing more money for years to come, but now might turn their backs to the developed because they feel mistreated. Especially considering how relatively small amounts we are talking about, compared to the negative PR effect. ED is using the work that has been at least partially done by the money invested by these same people. It will make and keep the profits on the money that was invested by KS backers.

 

They are not slapping anyone in the face.. dont be so dramatic... what is the price of your good PR... the money invested by the kickstarter did not cover one aircraft...

[valrond]

Well, I could refer to my football shoe design dream, if somebody seriously says that ED had nothing to do with the project at all. But that is a different story really.

 

The main point is still, why would ED want to slap their customers in the face? Customers that could continue bringing more money for years to come, but now might turn their backs to the developed because they feel mistreated. Especially considering how relatively small amounts we are talking about, compared to the negative PR effect. ED is using the work that has been at least partially done by the money invested by these same people. It will make and keep the profits on the money that was invested by KS backers.

 

Exactly. If this finally is what we will receive, I'm done with DCS and ED. I have most of their products I think, except for the Mi8 and Flaming Cliffs 3. Thank God I didn't buy them in the last sale.

 

But if this is how this company treats their customers, I don't want to have anything to do with it.

[NineLine]

no it does not. ED did benefit directly and indirect from the KS money.

 

How do you know? I see a lot of time and money that still need to be invested to make this project happen...

[tobaschi]

How do you know? I see a lot of time and money that still need to be invested to make this project happen...

 

i've already posted how ED has benefit from the KS money in this thread

[Jona33]

no it does not. ED did benefit directly and indirect from the KS money.

 

Ok then, let's change my analogy. My mate promises something to someone for $10 which is incredibly unrealistic. He realises he can't make it and disappears but before he goes he gives me the money and tells me to make it happen. I'd tell him to go away (out of respect for Sith here I won't use my original words!). I'm now left with a pissed off customer demanding his product so I tell him I can't manage that. He then goes onto the internet and complains about me because he expects me to summon a magic wish fairy.

[chaos]

no it does not. ED did benefit directly and indirect from the KS money.

 

So they 'benefitted' from a situation they themselves did not create. That doesn't make them responsible for what RRG promised. Why is this concept so difficult to understand?

[NineLine]

i've already posted how ED has benefit from the KS money in this thread

 

Well I suggest the costs outweigh the benefits... that is not to say once the project is done they wont see a new larger customer base and the benefits will grow much much more... but there is a lot of work to get there and a lot of money to be spent.

[f-18hornet]

Please stop with comments like this... they are not constructive... you have shared your opinion on how you think things can be improved... thats enough.. I dont want to get all moderator up in here...

 

Can you think about this scenario? Everything which is NOT in your tier now could be purchased with 50% discount so $25 per plane for backers.

[ff4life4]

I think what people mean by ED benefitting is that work had been done by RRG to the modules and map, and ED just acquired them when RRG went down.

[Flagrum]

Well, this person, who also invested $1 towards the development, was originally promised 3 planes. To say to him that you get nothing now is not really fair either. Could at least give one plane, even an over saturated P-51 one that would not sell much any more or that the backer could already have or if he does not have it, gets as an apetizer to build the desire to buy other planes. There were in total about 300 below-$20 backers - certainly not a big loss for ED anyway.

 

Now if this below-$20 backer gets nothing, he certainly feels cheated and might not want to give any more money to ED and spread the word among his friends to stay away from this developer.

ED should reimburse those people then. 200 people get 1 USD back and the other 120 get 10 USD. About 1400 USD for customer satisfaction - could not get any better.

[jinroh]

I won't make any casus belli of it, but I'm disappointed for sure. This is just plain business and minimizing the burden.

 

And for the P51, it's not too difficult to see those who received a key and those who paid ED for it, except if the admin management isn't efficient.

 

Now I stop to argument. I exposed my complain, got an answer, i know how to act next time. :)

[ff4life4]

ED should reimburse those people then. 200 people get 1 USD back and the other 120 get 10 USD. About 1400 USD for customer satisfaction - could not get any better.

 

+1

 

The name will be in the manual, that they wont even get!

[upupandaway]

This has to be the fastest growing thread on the forums ever...

[NineLine]

Can you think about this scenario? Everything which is NOT in your tier now could be purchased with 50% discount so $25 per plane for backers.

 

That is a suggestion they could consider.. but you all know I have no say in that :)

 

But thanks for making a suggestion without all the dramatic flare :)

[Psyrixx]

Something that has been brought up a lot is that the kickstarter "promised" you rewards or that you've already "bought" all the aircraft with your $<insert amount> pledge.

 

People are missing the fundamental point of Kickstarter. Nobody has bought anything by pledging money. No one "owes" or "promised" you anything unless the project is completed successfully as laid out in the original Kickstarter. RRG, the founder of the Kickstarter, has closed up shop. ED has picked up the project themselves and is going to finish it.

 

The moment RRG lost control of DCS: WWII was the moment the Kickstarter failed. ED has no obligation to give anyone anything as, even as a "partner" in whatever extent that may have been, they were not the ones running the Kickstarter.

 

Kickstarter is an investment platform. Not a "buy things for cheaper" platform. The Creator of the Kickstarter was Luthier and RRG Studios. ED was a Partner. Only the Creator is responsible for the fate of the Kickstarter. The Creator, in this instance, failed spectacularly. The Partner, happily enough, decided to assume control of the failed project and continue it. This does not mean that now ED "owes" anyone anything. They could have just as easily said "sorry, DCS WWII has been cancelled due to project mismanagement".

 

You invested. The project failed. Luckily the partner decided to pick up the project and see it through to completion. They even restructured the original Kickstarter rewards in an attempt to provide some sort of return based on the level of financial commitment that each backer originally pledged.

 

That's as simple as this situation is. Apart from a few particulars that have already been discussed to death in this thread, it is a favorable outcome from a horrible situation.

 

Be patient, let ED sort through the thread and if they change their minds for the better then that's fantastic. But everyone should be approaching this as a failed investment first and foremost, not "someone owes me something and is not delivering".