July 2014 Update #1

[ishtmail]

We definitely need DCS trading cards on Steam...

 

The comparison was not with Steam but with Star Citizen.

[billeinstein]

When the project is finished... I doubt servers will be empty... but I understand you are trying to make a dramatic point...

My friends and I really DONT want to pay this $12 to buy NOTHING just because we are not in USA.

[NineLine]

I dont know what to say to all this... the project was underestimated by RRG, that is my personal opinion... its quite clear when you lay it all out in front of you and add up the costs... I dont know where RRG was going to get the funds to produce this all... the KS wasnt gonna float it... he hinted at other sources, maybe those fell though... but bottomline is this... for the map example... RRG had plans to offer it for free... RRG is gone now... ED has to do the map. Ed cant do the map for free (except for some of the backers). Its that simple.... might not make people happy... but again.. it is what it is.

 

It depends, are you directly benefiting financially from the product being offered now by ED which was partially funded by the crowdfunding effort? No matter how insignificant, the backers contributed to the project and were encouraged by the fact that EDs name was plastered over the entire endeavor. I personally wouldn't have even considered backing if ED was not involved. So, it's a bit disappointing to see people describe this situation as simple and straightforward.

 

My biggest shock was hearing that the Normandy map was not free at this point. This changes the whole dynamic in my eyes. I am already slated to receive every aircraft and the map, so this is not a gripe about rewards. How will DCS attract newcomers to the WWII theater and aircraft with no way to try it out? (Please don't point out that they can fly a warbird in the Caucasus) It's just not the same, and has stopped plenty of people already from joining the ranks. It's definitely going to be harder to bring people in, and I'm afraid the skies will be far quieter now.

[rubblebeam]

When the project is finished... I doubt servers will be empty... but I understand you are trying to make a dramatic point...

 

I'm not trying to be dramatic. I'm pointing out the realities as I see them right now. Folk are saying they're pretty much done with ed if they dint get to choose their 1 aircraft. Nobody wants the playerbase to drop. How many p51 keys have been sold? How many p51s do you see online in multiplayer? It's not rocket science.

But I understand you're trying to be snide

[upupandaway]

Can you think about this scenario? Everything which is NOT in your tier now could be purchased with 50% discount so $25 per plane for backers.

 

I am also very much pro upgrade!

[upupandaway]

The comparison was not with Steam but with Star Citizen.

 

Ok, I´m not really into Star Citizen, but at its core it´s a similar idea. Also, I wasn´t really being serious. By selling all the junk I got on Steam I have made something like 2,80€ so far...

[Flagrum]

Absolute peanuts. ED isn't going into this to barely break even, the market for these modules is tens of thousands of copies.

 

Also, you're assuming that if 2500 backers didn't receive the Dora at a $20 discount, that they would all buy it at full price. Don't make such assumptions please. RIAA makes such assumptions often, and their assumptions have been disproven.

I am just talking about the costs. If not every backer would buy the Dora at full price - or not at all, then it will take longer to break even. But the costs are still there.

[NineLine]

My friends and I really DONT want to pay this $12 to buy NOTHING just because we are not in USA.

 

I said I would ask about shipping, but my thoughts are it will count towards your pledge.

[greco.bernardi]

I have a P51 airplane....If i can change for another ww2 plane will be great.....

If will be hard to make all people chose your airplanes ED can change automatically to next www2 plane of list that i do not have......

Is it possible?

[billeinstein]

I said I would ask about shipping, but my thoughts are it will count towards your pledge.

 

Thanks

[danvac]

DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

 

What exactly Alpha access means for Dora as it will be released in short time?

 

EDIT: Ah, sorry I probably had brain malfunction during reading. You can delete this post with reply as it is useless.

Edited July 8, 2014 by danvac
I am dumb.

[NineLine]

DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

 

What exactly Alpha access means for Dora as it will be released in short time?

 

They said they are still working it out...

[NineLine]

I have a P51 airplane....If i can change for another ww2 plane will be great.....

If will be hard to make all people chose your airplanes ED can change automatically to next www2 plane of list that i do not have......

Is it possible?

 

Many people have asked about this, but nothing has changed yet.

[Rangi]

 

My friends and I really DONT want to pay this $12 to buy NOTHING just because we are not in USA.

 

 

mmm a rest of the world tax, I didn't think of that:noexpression:

 

Nice work so far Sith, you might just hit 10,000 posts by the time this tread is closed...

[Flagrum]

My friends and I really DONT want to pay this $12 to buy NOTHING just because we are not in USA.

Huh? Did you quote the wrong posting (and have overlooked the answers regarding the shipping fees)? But even then, if you are accounted for 100 USD or 112 USD ... you are in the tier 100-119 - so what's the fuzz here?

[ishtmail]

Ok, I´m not really into Star Citizen, but at its core it´s a similar idea. Also, I wasn´t really being serious. By selling all the junk I got on Steam I have made something like 2,80€ so far...

 

In Star CItizen, things are different. Basic ship costs $30 in a package, and that's really all the investment you need to do: you can earn all the other ships in the game (because of the in-game economy). But backers still fight over buying ships that cost $1250 (400 of them sold out in under a minute), even though technically, you only need to grind for a while (ok, months), and earn enough credits to buy it in the game.

 

There's no way to make an analogy like that in DCS since DCS doesn't have an economy, you don't earn any in-game money for running missions.

 

I am just talking about the costs. If not every backer would buy the Dora at full price - or not at all, then it will take longer to break even. But the costs are still there.

 

From your posts, I understood that you were talking about how much money ED loses by honoring pledges. That's what I was calculating.

 

The 2500 backers mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, where ED sells 10k copies of each airplane.

[NineLine]

mmm a rest of the world tax, I didn't think of that:noexpression:

 

Nice work so far Sith, you might just hit 10,000 posts by the time this tread is closed...

 

I am just trying to pass Wags at this point ;)

[Merlin-27]

I dont know what to say to all this...

 

I'm not blaming you, Sith. Your nose has been bloodied far too much already. (I hope you at least get an extra t-shirt for all of your effort) :D

 

Some of us feel like this is a pivotal moment and most of use have a stake in it in some way and that dream seems to be crumbling a bit. I understand what you are saying about ED "not being able to offer certain things" but we all know compromises can be made to keep high fidelity flight sims alive and well. I am happy that ED did not let this die... but quite honestly, I already expected them to do the right thing in an attempt to retain their existing customers. Our genre is a fairly exclusive one and I'd hope everything that can be done to encourage people to join up will be done.

[NineLine]

I'm not blaming you, Sith. Your nose has been bloodied far too much already. (I hope you at least get an extra t-shirt for all of your effort) :D

 

Some of us feel like this is a pivotal moment and most of use have a stake in it in some way and that dream seems to be crumbling a bit. I understand what you are saying about ED "not being able to offer certain things" but we all know compromises can be made to keep high fidelity flight sims alive and well. I am happy that ED did not let this die... but quite honestly, I already expected them to do the right thing in an attempt to retain their existing customers. Our genre is a fairly exclusive one and I'd hope everything that can be done to encourage people to join up will be done.

 

They are listening... ED cares more than people given them credit for.

[Flagrum]

From your posts, I understood that you were talking about how much money ED loses by honoring pledges. That's what I was calculating.

 

The 2500 backers mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, where ED sells 10k copies of each airplane.

It's all the same, just viewed from different angles. You calculate with reduced prices per piece, I calculated with the whole sum. How you aggregate what over which time period ... depends.

 

If the costs are not covered by the purchases, then something is off. "Loss" or "cost" ... the end result is: ED will have less money available for a certain time for new projects and while they might not get bankrupt ofer 25K or 50K, it could servely impact their future projects.

[billeinstein]

Huh? Did you quote the wrong posting (and have overlooked the answers regarding the shipping fees)? But even then, if you are accounted for 100 USD or 112 USD ... you are in the tier 100-119 - so what's the fuzz here?

 

Yeah, sry for wrong quote.

I was looking for those "hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual".

Now the print-ready PDF manuals are Ok for me. But if I were live in US，I just need to pay $100.

[ishtmail]

It's all the same, just viewed from different angles. You calculate with reduced prices per piece, I calculated with the whole sum. How you aggregate what over which time period ... depends.

 

If the costs are not covered by the purchases, then something is off. "Loss" or "cost" ... the end result is: ED will have less money available for a certain time for new projects and while they might not get bankrupt ofer 25K or 50K, it could servely impact their future projects.

 

Only relevant if sales of the full priced modules aren't good enough.

 

But my bet is that ED has done their research and that they are fully planning to sell MANY licences of the modules.

 

Why do I think that's true?

Simple. Not only has ED taken upon themselves to develop SIX ww2 airplanes, VEAO is now also doing it with other airplanes of the era. This means ED fully realizes the huge potential of the WW2 fanbase. You can rest assured that ED wouldn't dream of developing all the airplanes (or letting VEAO do their stuff) if they had any inclination that the market could become oversaturated and the project could at any point be economically not viable.

[Flagrum]

Yeah, sry for wrong quote.

I was looking for those "hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual".

Now the print-ready PDF manuals are Ok for me. But if I were live in US，I just need to pay $100.

Allright, I see your point now. The hardcopy manuals are not an option any longer - that was part of the "we all have to deal with some losses". And that would include the 12 USD, imo. Or what would be a solution here? Reimbursement of the 12 USD? But with that logic, everyone could demand to get their pledge reduced to the next lower reward tier - sounds somehow not really fair to me, either.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Flagrum

[TaliG]

However, ED is fulfilling backer rewards to the best of their ability as a corporation based on the original amount pledged to the KS and what they perceive to be a fair reward at each pledge tier, out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

They could have just as easily said "RRG Failed, Project Cancelled. Oh but we're starting a new project called DCS: 1942, preorders happen here!"

 

:thumbup:

 

Cmon Psyrixx.

 

ED took all work that was done from backers money and continue to develop it.

BUT they will have the full profit plus more (breaking everything into individual sellable modules) and in return they give us what? a 4 year old product that they stoped making money from plus most if not all of the backers have it or they are not interested to buy it.

That is a clear kick in the... foot.

 

And yes, better say RRG failed project canceled. But also leave the work that was done from backers money until now why take it?

[NineLine]

Cmon Psyrixx.

 

ED took all work that was done from backers money and continue to develop it.

BUT they will have the full profit plus more (breaking everything into individual sellable modules) and in return they give us what? a 4 year old product that they stoped making money from plus most if not all of the backers have it or they are not interested to buy it.

That is a clear kick in the... foot.

 

And yes, better say RRG failed project canceled. But also leave the work that was done from backers money until now why take it?

 

The KS did not even fund one full module...