DCS 1.2.9 AI MIG-21BIS Discussions

[JG-1_Vogel]

Horray for nukes lol. A shame that the effects aren't quite right, would make for some interesting flights! Makes me think of dropping nukes back in F4:AF and not being quite out of the blast zone when it went off... yeah didn't end well!

[Sceptre]

Reminds me of the B-29 Silverplate in IL-2

[billeinstein]

Shall I edit something to activate the Mig-21? I can add it in ME, but can see nothing when start the mission.

[Winfield_Gold]

 

What happens when AI shut down

[cichlidfan]

O man... :lol:

 

I guess everyone gone frenzy and the next request would be "put more plutonium in that nuke".

 

FYI, nukes can't be properly simulated, and even if they could, it won't be fun at the end.

 

The nukes are fine. Somewhere along the line we are going to need some Napalm, though. :D

[-Rudel-]

Gents I'm very surprised to find out this AI was released so quickly. It is unfinished, and I'm aware of all the errors already. :doh:

[Sceptre]

Still it looks amazing anyway :)

[Gargoyle1]

Rudel please answer

 

 

Cobra talked about a "meatier" update. Can you give us some estimate of when this might be?

[leafer]

...it might be worth running through the mission editor and plonking a few aircraft down.

 

Ok, I did and ...? :music_whistling: I see nothing new and I tried static objects as well.

[Grimes]

FYI, nukes can't be properly simulated, and even if they could, it won't be fun at the end.

 

Slightly curious why it would be an available payload aside for the sake of appearances.

 

Could do some fun with scripting though, get its impact point and create explosions on objects with x radius or turn it into an EMP and shut off all the ground AI in the area. :music_whistling:

[VincentLaw]

Slightly curious why it would be an available payload

I think a better question is why not.

[Dolphin887]

Slightly curious why it would be an available payload aside for the sake of appearances.

 

Could do some fun with scripting though, get its impact point and create explosions on objects with x radius or turn it into an EMP and shut off all the ground AI in the area. :music_whistling:

 

My thoughts are similar when it comes to weapons "realism". In one of my previous post I gave a list of "activated and disabled" weapons for 21 which created a lot of a stir on the forum. I explained that disabled weapons have no satisfying implementation at the moment, hence they do not meet basic ED publishing principles - leaning toward realism. As for the nukes, I significantly improve their previous code, and they still remained below the edge of criteria. I was tempted to rule them out also, but I noticed players want them very bad, so I left them.

 

As for the coding, we - as 3rd P developers - have access to many of game functionalities, but not all. As SDk improves, it is becoming more powerful, and things that are not possible at the moment will be possible soon. Current weapons definitions does not allow defining the weapon that have such "theater - wide" effect like nuke or thermobaric bombs. Best way to define those weapons would be through wind vectors manipulation in weapons effects calculation module (C++ base), since the primary destructive force in this case is a powerful shock wave. EMP effect could be added also following the code base extension. Since these effects are handled by the game engine, we - as 3rd P - cant control it nor modify it, Eagle can if they want.

 

As you know, 21 is still in testing process, se we expect some feedback from testers like you: things might (and most likely will) change until release.

[Vitesse2l]

Ok, I did and ...? I see nothing new and I tried static objects as well.

Hi Leafer - the Mig 21 (and Mig 15 and F86) show up in the normal aircraft list and can be tweaked in the same way as any other AI or player aircraft.

 

If those aircraft are not showing up then perhaps check your version and/or repair?

[Sceptre]

My thoughts are similar when it comes to weapons "realism". In one of my previous post I gave a list of "activated and disabled" weapons for 21 which created a lot of a stir on the forum. I explained that disabled weapons have no satisfying implementation at the moment, hence they do not meet basic ED publishing principles - leaning toward realism. As for the nukes, I significantly improve their previous code, and they still remained below the edge of criteria. I was tempted to rule them out also, but I noticed players want them very bad, so I left them.

 

As for the coding, we - as 3rd P developers - have access to many of game functionalities, but not all. As SDk improves, it is becoming more powerful, and things that are not possible at the moment will be possible soon. Current weapons definitions does not allow defining the weapon that have such "theater - wide" effect like nuke or thermobaric bombs. Best way to define those weapons would be through wind vectors manipulation in weapons effects calculation module (C++ base), since the primary destructive force in this case is a powerful shock wave. EMP effect could be added also following the code base extension. Since these effects are handled by the game engine, we - as 3rd P - cant control it nor modify it, Eagle can if they want.

 

As you know, 21 is still in testing process, se we expect some feedback from testers like you: things might (and most likely will) change until release.

 

Thanks for clearing a lot of stuff up for myself and others, and best of luck!

[Paradox]

My thoughts are similar when it comes to weapons "realism". In one of my previous post I gave a list of "activated and disabled" weapons for 21 which created a lot of a stir on the forum. I explained that disabled weapons have no satisfying implementation at the moment, hence they do not meet basic ED publishing principles - leaning toward realism. As for the nukes, I significantly improve their previous code, and they still remained below the edge of criteria. I was tempted to rule them out also, but I noticed players want them very bad, so I left them.

 

As for the coding, we - as 3rd P developers - have access to many of game functionalities, but not all. As SDk improves, it is becoming more powerful, and things that are not possible at the moment will be possible soon. Current weapons definitions does not allow defining the weapon that have such "theater - wide" effect like nuke or thermobaric bombs. Best way to define those weapons would be through wind vectors manipulation in weapons effects calculation module (C++ base), since the primary destructive force in this case is a powerful shock wave. EMP effect could be added also following the code base extension. Since these effects are handled by the game engine, we - as 3rd P - cant control it nor modify it, Eagle can if they want.

 

As you know, 21 is still in testing process, se we expect some feedback from testers like you: things might (and most likely will) change until release.

 

I think you might as well leave the R-24 and R-28 in. Just because there isn't anything quite like it for other aircraft and because ultimately people have the choice not to use them.

 

I support your decision to rule out things like the GUV-8700 since it kind of doesn't make all that much sense.

 

You're doing good work Dolphin.

[Scrim]

LN, why do you do this to us? Don't you know we're already being mentally tortured waiting for the release? :P

[six.dof]

AI MIG21BIS

 

I hope the DCS MIG21BIS is more realistic than the AI in view of flight performance and damage model.

 

I try to beat the AI in different scenarios, a challenge, seems like the flight performance is similar like the F15C, is impressive that the AI MIG21 can fly so long time on AB, nearly run out the F15C on fuel and speed.:(

 

Interesting is the damage that the AI MIG21 take from direct hits, some AIM9 direct hit the Nozzle, the damm think just continue to fly and fight.

[GaryIKILLYOU]

LN, why do you do this to us? Don't you know we're already being mentally tortured waiting for the release? :P

Hush. :lol:

Dolphin, I did a quick skrim with the MiG-21 and noticed the R-13 was able to track and kill me from a head on aspect in an F-15. Is this correct? Also, the MiG is BEAUTIFUL and I can't thank you guys enough for your hard work. The MiG-21 is by far my favorite aircraft to ever fly in aviation history, and to be able to fight her and soon to yank her stick around just makes my day. :joystick:

Edited July 26, 2014 by GaryIKILLYOU

[theGozr]

Beta...

[Exorcet]

I've not tried the 21 yet, but the MiG-15 has similar reports. It looks like 1.2.9 was just focused with getting these out and making sure they could integrate with the sim correctly. Proper flight/damage model will probably come later.

 

I prefer it this way, if they didn't release it half finished, I wouldn't have as much things to shoot at.

[Buzzles]

To quote -Rudel-

 

Gents I'm very surprised to find out this AI was released so quickly. It is unfinished, and I'm aware of all the errors already.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2128224&postcount=31

 

And that's just talking about the graphical errors I think. It's obviously going to recieve more work.

[ARM505]

Just as a trial run, I set a 4 Ship Mig 15 AI flight against a 4 ship Sabre flight, then a 4 ship F15C flight, then a 4 ship F16D flight (all gun only of course). The Mig 15's won each fight 4 -0.

 

Yay, beta! And AI being odd of course :D

[Dolphin887]

LN, why do you do this to us? Don't you know we're already being mentally tortured waiting for the release? :P

 

This was a bit of a surprise to us also. But we are glad we moved a bit closer to the release. At the end, some public tests will improve implementation and keep you guys entertained a bit until we finish the job behind the curtain.

[Dolphin887]

Hush. :lol:

Dolphin, I did a quick skrim with the MiG-21 and noticed the R-13 was able to track and kill me from a head on aspect in an F-15. Is this correct? Also, the MiG is BEAUTIFUL and I can't thank you guys enough for your hard work. The MiG-21 is by far my favorite aircraft to ever fly in aviation history, and to be able to fight her and soon to yank her stick around just makes my day. :joystick:

 

It should be possible for any IR A-A missile in DCS (some might have special restrictions on IR head definition). IR missiles are simply looking for a good contrast to lock on to. Multi-engined jet aircraft might have reasonably high thermal output, which might be acquired at a certain distance. Turbo-props and piston engined aircraft are - on the other side - extremely hard to lock with any IR missile in DCS (so far).

[Dolphin887]

I hope the DCS MIG21BIS is more realistic than the AI in view of flight performance and damage model.

 

I try to beat the AI in different scenarios, a challenge, seems like the flight performance is similar like the F15C, is impressive that the AI MIG21 can fly so long time on AB, nearly run out the F15C on fuel and speed.:(

 

Interesting is the damage that the AI MIG21 take from direct hits, some AIM9 direct hit the Nozzle, the damm think just continue to fly and fight.

 

MiG-21BIS have no time restriction on normal (1st) afterburner use. You can expect flight time on afterburner to be anything between 12-15 minutes without external fuel. If AI throttles back often (like all AI do in ACM), this time is prolonged.

 

Damage model is WIP. It contains visual, aerodynamic and structural toughness definitions. Current model is not representing the final product.