F-86 smoking exhaust

[Buzpilot]

I see the F-86 bug thread is closed, so I'll report this one here.

 

The F-86 seem to smoke all the time, not just when accelerating, like during takeoff.

It's like it's burning fuel like takeoff all the time.

 

Compared to MiG-15bis

 

 

Just as an example, I have a MiG-29 formation, where the two last MiG's are slightly lagging behind, and also smoke a lot during acceleration.

(In DCS we only see a small puff of black smoke when throttle change)

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buzpilot

[Rammit]

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/O0XLmZNuYBo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

 

If we look at a modern day F-86, it does appear to smoke all the time, I think with modern aircraft (even Soviet/Russian designed) the engine on the whole smokes noticeably with throttle increases

[Buzpilot]

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/O0XLmZNuYBo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

 

If we look at a modern day F-86, it does appear to smoke all the time, I think with modern aircraft (even Soviet/Russian designed) the engine on the whole smokes noticeably with throttle increases

 

If you compare with a privately owned F-86, using cheaper fuel than military, i agree. ( Can't really see your tube link)

And acrobatic turning during a airshow, you technically accelerate to keep the speed constant. Making a turnfight normally smoking.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Buzpilot

[Gladio]

F-86 and Mig.15 were easy recognizable among them due to the black smoke thrown out by the F-86's engine. They (USAF pilots) used to say "'if it smokes, it's one of ours"

[SgtPappy]

This is correct. F-86's were known to smoke in the 1950's just like in the game, and it is a consequence of the engine moreso than of the fuel used.

[Mustang]

(In DCS we only see a small puff of black smoke when throttle change)[/img]

 

This is a bug with nVidia hardware.

[SkateZilla]

[Skulleader]

I possess one Nvidia Graphic Card and with my F-86 no problem.

When I open full my throttle I can see the beautiful black smoke and when my throttle is idle the black smoke disappear...

 

Bye, Skull.

[mr_mojo97]

Just out of curiosity every now and then you see a small puff of white smoke such as in Skates' vid at 2min 01s amongst others. Anyone know what this is? Unburnt fuel perhaps? Ta

[Gladio]

It happens when inverted or in a unusual asset

[Davee]

I grew up with the F86 and it does smoke all the time.

[Buzpilot]

It sure smoke, but not all the time. It's very hard to tell but somwhere between 90-70% it stop smoking, unless it's accelerating.

And this is the F version.

And from 7:00 the smoke seems very faint, indicating it's smoking alot more with partly cold engine parts.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2014 by Buzpilot

[SkateZilla]

The MPEG Artifacting on that video causes shifting which makes the smoke look lighter than it actually is, that plus the lighting and contrast of the sky a the time of filming. and the original 320x240 image being interpolated.

[Buzpilot]

The MPEG Artifacting on that video causes shifting which makes the smoke look lighter than it actually is, that plus the lighting and contrast of the sky a the time of filming. and the original 320x240 image being interpolated.

 

 

If it was that simple, we would hardly see any smoke at all in this video. Flying in front of white shining clouds would in fact show really good, if there was smoke.

Just because you can see one colored blocks of areas, it doesn't mean those 'hide' the smoke . Thats how MPEG works. If there was smoke, the codeks would show smoke at higher resolution.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Buzpilot

[iFoxRomeo]

Here they are side by side @3min31sec

 

[Buzpilot]

Here they are side by side @3min31sec

 

 

I agree, but thats not the F version. I have another link too, two types of F-86, but none are F versions, the shiny one in the middle don't smoke at all during takeoff 1:30, exept for white smoke ,later, I belive is for the show.

 

 

 

From Wikipedia.

F-86F Uprated engine and larger "6–3" wing without leading edge slats, 2,239 built; North American model NA-172 (F-86F-1 through F-15 blocks), NA-176 (F-86F-20 and −25 blocks), NA-191 (F-86F-30 and −35 blocks), NA-193 (F-86F-26 block), NA-202 (F-86F-35 block), NA-227 (first two orders of F-86F-40 blocks comprising 280 aircraft which reverted to leading edge wing slats of an improved design),

Could be the shiny one in the middle is F-40 block, from those 280 wich reverted to leading edge wing slats? ( Anyway, it's a different engine)

 

Edit; Turns out it's a Canadair. NX1F / FU-756 (cn 1461) - Canadair CL-13B Sabre 6

Edited August 27, 2014 by Buzpilot

[Buzpilot]

And some old photoes from F-86F in active service in Norway, no sign of smoke here, or at least almost invisible.

 

Digital Museum in Norway.

 

 

 

 

The last ones here are F-86K, export variant of F-86D, with Radar dome.

 

I know the pictures are old, but it should show that much smoke we see in DCS. If there really was.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Buzpilot

[NeilWillis]

In the old photographs, how do you know if the guy who printed them dodged and burned the sky? Do you know if the colour of the smoke just made it less obvious against the clouds? As an argument for or against smoke, it is just useless.

 

From a practical point of view, how easily can you distinguish between the Mig15 and the F-86? If you ask me, the smoke is a key identifier, and even if it isn't just how the real thing looked at all phases of flight, I think it should be accepted.

 

If it bothers you that much, then just wait for the inevitable mod that some talented member is bound to produce. That way, we'll all be happy.

[Soulres]

Asked a friend who knows a guy (long story short) It burns fuel pretty good,But the higher you go the Clearer it gets cuase it gets more Effiecent.Its why they flew so High.if you look at those pictures, if you squint you can see it barely. Fuel burned worse back in teh day. now its cleaner and more eco friendly.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Soulres

[Buzpilot]

I did find the Norwegean F-86K of F-86D export variant did have a different engine, 25KN instead of 27KN, and that possibly a less tweaked engine was smoking less.

So it's possibly the Norwegean F-86F's also used same engines, for easier maintenance.

 

Wikipedia

J47-GE-27 5,970 pounds-force (27 kN) thrust, powered the North American F-86F Sabre[2]

J47-GE-33 5,550 pounds-force (25 kN) thrust, powered the F-86F & F-86K

 

[SgtPappy]

I'm not sure if anyone's posted this, but this footage is just as old as some of the pictures already posted. There's tonnes of smoke. Watch from 24 minutes about 25:30.

[Buzpilot]

I'm not sure if anyone's posted this, but this footage is just as old as some of the pictures already posted. There's tonnes of smoke. Watch from 24 minutes about 25:30.

 

Really hard to tell, seems it smoke much less higher up, if you look at same video at 41:18, but again in a ground attack very low, 42:08 it smokes.

 

[KLR Rico]

The smoke seems pretty good to me. All the engines from the era (and even modern derivatives) smoke like a mofo. Look at the B-52's and C-130's (particularly E's, with the -7 engines) for similar examples still in active service, and burning "modern fuel".