Multi-crew for one huey implemented or not?

[Holton181]

Then I understand your request.

While you wait for it to be implemented, you can use a software to port a joystick to mouse and make it work hopefully. Just do a search for "joy 2 mouse" or similar.

[WildBillKelsoe]

the gunners at least should be working. If copilot only that would leave alot of potential out of this bird.

[hannibal]

Then I understand your request.

While you wait for it to be implemented, you can use a software to port a joystick to mouse and make it work hopefully. Just do a search for "joy 2 mouse" or similar.

 

i been through my days of trying to jerry rigging joysticks to work for games.

i got tired of using a mapping software to map the W key on the A10A because the A101A did not have brake axis assignments.

 

thanks for the suggestion of using mapping software. Looking for FULL in game support.

I DO NOT plan to build a physical doorgun using joystick hardware just to work around with a mapping software to bind to the mouse.

 

i still AM ASKING (WISH LIST) FOR BELSIMTEK TO ADD AXIS ASSIGMENTS (X & Y) for the DoorGun.

 

Please Please Belsimtek, Make the doorgunner multi seat slot great!

 

 

Holton.. to give you an idea.. this is what i am trying to achieve.

 

 

please! please belsimtek!

1) individual multiplayer slots for doorgunner positions (not just copilot)

2) independent axis commands for the door guns (that would be unrelated to view port)

Edited December 8, 2017 by hannibal

[hannibal]

the gunners at least should be working. If copilot only that would leave alot of potential out of this bird.

 

Agreed. Copilot is cool for trainer purposes. but in COMBAT (digital COMBAT simulator)

the gunner elements are more useful.

 

I feel that in VR, it will be an amazing feature to have doorgunners as a multiseat slot!!

[Zulu]

In the latest Beta, in the mission editor under special options, you can now select control priority for the Huey like you can for other multi-crew aircraft. Good sign...?

[Scrape]

As I'm sure you know. The Huey was made before multicrew, and last I heard the Huey would need to be remade from the ground up to allow for multiple players and switch logic. They would have to start to from scratch.

 

The real question is when they began the rework.

[hannibal]

wishing that my door gunner controller project will see life in 2018, should belsimtek implement multi-seat and joystick support for the door gunners in both the UH1 and Mi8

[shagrat]

Agreed. Copilot is cool for trainer purposes. but in COMBAT (digital COMBAT simulator)

the gunner elements are more useful.

 

I feel that in VR, it will be an amazing feature to have doorgunners as a multiseat slot!!

Hopefully the pilot can find the combat without the navigator's help...

Low level flying, combined with territory only seen on maps, plus a little bad visibility can be challenging, when you need to sort your flight plan, stop watch, and worst case track the map.

 

Nice would be to have all slots in multi-crew, but I am sure the major "rework" is about the pilot controls and switches not so much the door gunners.

 

Yet it would tremendously help in a Huey to have a Navigator, even if he can't fly the Huey in a first implementation.

Edited December 27, 2017 by shagrat

[PeaceSells]

Nice would be to have all slots in multi-crew, but I am sure the major "rework" is about the pilot controls and switches not so much the door gunners.

 

I have a hard time believing it's that hard to allow for human door gunners. Plus I have to agree with the guys, door gunners are a major part in combat with the Huey.

[shagrat]

I have a hard time believing it's that hard to allow for human door gunners. Plus I have to agree with the guys, door gunners are a major part in combat with the Huey.

That is what I said. Door gunners are "relatively easy", the Co-Pilot Mission Commander that needs to be able to operate radios, instruments on his side and on the pedestal and ceiling, plus use the controls to fly the helicopter are difficult.

 

The gunners using seperate axis, may be depending on ED to change basic mouse and VR-view axis controls... That might mean, somewhere after 2.5 relelase.

 

But only BST and ED will know for sure.

 

At least with the pilot controls preference in the Mission Editor it seems they make progress, already.

[hannibal]

The gunners using seperate axis, may be depending on ED to change basic mouse and VR-view axis controls... That might mean, somewhere after 2.5 relelase.

 

But only BST and ED will know for sure.

 

i just want to build a working minigun / doorgun controller working in VR. thats it. most games outthere can not support it- maybe arma, but arma's VR is non-existent. unfortunately iL2 controls are wanky for me to even consider using, let alone the poor VR gunner position support.

hopefully if were to build such controller, i would work on future DCS modules with gunner position...polychop Ju87???

 

i need a new construction project, and a doorgun control has been in my mind for the longest!

 

VR experience as a huey pilot is amazing as it is (with a collective cyclic and torque pedals), hoping that the gunner position receives the same treatment in which i can use a physical controller to use in VR!!!

Edited December 27, 2017 by hannibal

[hannibal]

You'd really think it should work already by default. Without VR the door gunner aiming is controlled by the camera POV tilt/pan angle. It should be the same while in VR, it points where you look. Done.

 

I'm sure they found a way to make what's simple and obvious complex and close to impossible though. :/

 

i have thought about it.

 

im sorry brother, my project requires the door gunner to have analogue x-axis and y-axis assignments because i plan to use pots for my controller in which the pots will map to the x & y axis.

 

i apprieciate that you dont tell me about the mouse just like someone posted earlier, i dont plan to spend time and hard work to build a controller just to map it to the game's already working mouse controls.

 

so, really, not done. not for the work i plan to put into the controller.

 

the problem with the mouse is that there will be drift. lets say you mapped the mouse to flight controls. you start flying along with the mouse already position at one point on your desk. one you start moving your mouse around, the mouse does not necessarily mean that it will result in the in game flight control to be centered to where you started using the mouse.

Edited December 27, 2017 by hannibal

[hannibal]

I dont plan to buy a track ir any time soon.

No. Hardware builder. Not coder

Translating for mouse or trackir, not interested to do either.

But thanks for suggestion

Edited December 28, 2017 by hannibal

[hannibal]

You wouldn't need a Track IR. What we'd do is make your pot encoders interface with DCS through the Track IR API.

 

Let me look into this some more. I might be able to help you. (Looks like I have to ask them for this, it doesn't appear to be openly available. https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/developers/ EDIT: Request sent! We'll see how that goes...)

 

By the way, how were you planning to encode the pots as a joystick? Just wire them into an existing joystick?

 

i super appreciate you offering to help.

im sure i could gerry rig something to work via the mouse.

but i dont want to gerry rig no mouse, let alone do deal with a trackIR or api.

thank you for msging natural point..

i had trackIR back then, i absolutely hated the device. i am surprsingly reluctant to use my oculus rift, because it i generally dont like to wear anything on my head, but oculus rift works, i fly only with that.

 

as mentioned before, if i were to make a physical doorgun, thats work and effort..which i am willing to do if there is in game built in analogue axis support. i dont want to build anything in which i have to deal with work arounds.

 

facepalm, they have an analogue axis assignment for open close canopy for the P-51D.. still wishing for analogue support for the UH1 and Mi8 doorgun controls

Edited December 28, 2017 by hannibal

[hannibal]

(I do agree there's no good reason for them to not offer joystick control of the guns and/or gunner POV, but I have a list a mile long of things in DCS that there's no good reason for. :) )

 

unfortnately, i have to disagree.

Belsimtek SHOULD HAVE joystick support for guns.

for the DOORGUNS..

which is part of the multiseat position.

which is the point of this thread, having multi-crew for the huey.

which possiblity open doors for future modules for multi-crew type aircraft.

especially the AH-1 Cobra with the gunner co-pilot position.

 

it is GOOD reason.

 

have you played DCS in VR? at all?

[hannibal]

That's what I said. There is no good reason to NOT offer joystick control of the guns. Meaning there's no good excuse for not doing it.

 

I'm guessing English is a second language for you?

 

And no, no VR. Can't afford it right now, much less the new GPU I'd need to support it, and I'm not interested in having to peek down my nose to find keys on the keyboard. Seems to kind of void the whole point to me.

 

sorry my brother, mis understood you last post, i read too many negations.

you should really try VR sometime.

it is a game changer..

find a moment to try it at least, if not buying it.

i wait for the day that the Huey will have multicrew support so that i can find more purpose in VR!

[dabomb]

I just don't think I'd like having my face buried in a hot mask, I get sweaty enough as it is in the summer. I imagine VR gear would be unbearable and completely fogged up.)

 

Unless your nose and mouth are located between your eyes, I think you'll be okay as far as fogging goes.

[hansangb]

Yeah, no, I'm on your side and am trying to help.

 

And people who use TrackIR say they can't live without it as well but I've been doing just fine since 1987 without one. At least until I started flying DCS with its poorly implemented keyboard view system. (That also gets interrupted by radio messages! :( )

 

So how do you find the keyboard keys when using VR? That's the paradigm buster, to me. Now, if we had 3D gloves, and the pilot body's hands accurately tracked ours, and there was some kind of haptic feedback to tell you when your finger was over a switch and certain flick actions of your finger to activate/deactivate/turn the control, THEN I'd be interested. But I think that's still a long ways off. And even that has some big problems to solve. What if my real throttle isn't exactly where the virtual one is in 3-space? I'll appear to have a hand floating in the middle of my cockpit where it shouldn't be, getting in the way of my view of instruments and controls. Or perhaps a hand that appears to be going through a cockpit wall.

 

Until then I'll be spending my money on a bigger display. (I'd even consider a 3D one -- do they work with DCS? That plus TrackIR would probably appeal to me a lot more than goggles. I just don't think I'd like having my face buried in a hot mask, I get sweaty enough as it is in the summer. I imagine VR gear would be unbearable and completely fogged up.)

 

Yes, 3D Stereo and (even) projectors work. Icarus, I believe that's the name, makes domes to go with 3D projectors. It uses TrackIR to change the views. But here's the thing. I thought Padlock view in Falcon was da bomb! Then TrackIR happened and it was great. But it still felt a little weak because my brain didn't believe TrackIR. So it was always a hassle to figure out if I was fly west of the hill, and north of the airport after juking and jinking. But with VR, you almost always know where you are because your brain believes you're in the cockpit.

 

And I finally understood what pilots/aviators meant when they say "if you can see it (SAM), you can defeat it" With VR, you can fly the bird while looking at the SAM. You know exactly where you are in 3D space. Again, something you can't do any other way.

 

And peering out to look at the button boxes, keyboards, etc. doesn't break the immersion (not for me, anyway).

 

Add in Vaicom/VoiceAttack and you can interact with JTAC w/o touching your keyboard. It's all, very very very cool. Sure, the resolution could be better, but overall, it's a must buy.

 

And it doesn't help Hannibal at all, but door gunner in VR is fun. As you said, you look at the target and you shoot. More like AH64 guns than boresighted M60s, LOL. I hope Belsimtek implements it. It would be cool to see it in action.

Edited December 29, 2017 by hansangb

[hannibal]

Edited December 29, 2017 by hannibal

[hansangb]

Sorry but the TrackIR people say the same thing. Everybody thinks the way they play is the only way to play. And I don't want or need a padlock view, I see that as cheating. (And we have one already, though most online servers rightly disable it.) --snippage--

 

I guess the TrackIR and 4K monitor folks don't know what they don't know. IT's not the same *at* all, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Padlock etc. can be considered cheating. What is not cheating is being able to look around just as in real life. Hell, checking six is pretty damn hard with VR.

 

Anyway, my job isn't to convince anyone to go to VR. But it is ABSOLUTELY the future sim'ing. It's more of a jump in "realism" than flying with keyboards to using joysticks. More than monochrome and wireframe to CGA/VGA. Anyway, I'm wandering off the thread.

[Flagrum]

unfortnately, i have to disagree.

Belsimtek SHOULD HAVE joystick support for guns.

for the DOORGUNS..

which is part of the multiseat position.

which is the point of this thread, having multi-crew for the huey.

which possiblity open doors for future modules for multi-crew type aircraft.

especially the AH-1 Cobra with the gunner co-pilot position.

 

it is GOOD reason.

 

have you played DCS in VR? at all?

BST added two separate axes (horiz./vert.) for the door gunners quite some time ago. I haven't tried it out, yet, but looks as if you are not limited to TrackIR + Mouse anymore.

[hansangb]

Did you mean "without VR"? Or do you mean that you literally have to turn your head 180 to do it, as opposed to a much smaller movement with TrackIR or no head movement at all with the keyboard/mouse panning? Sometimes less really is more! :)

 

And if I turn my head 180 with VR gear on, I now have a wire wrapped around my neck. No? (I have wireless headphones. Two pairs, actually. I bought them for collaborating on music with another person but two are also nice as one charges while I use the other.)

 

 

It's 1 to 1 in VR. And the Field of View is currently about 110 horizontal. So you have to physically turn your head about 100dec or so? to check six. So it really helps to have something to grab onto to help rotate your body. I can't imagine doing it while pulling 7-9 Gs. And real aviators tell me that you can't really move your head while pulling that many Gs. Funny thing is, you often reach out to grab the cockpit thinking it's really there.

 

The cord doesn't really get in the way. I clip the cord to my shoulder and I can move around in my chair w/o getting hung up. It's not like you're spinning around with the goggles on. I suppose if you use the room scale tracking, the cord could be a pain to walk around with. I only use it for flight sims, so it's not an issue.

 

One other thing, because you can sense the speed and height, and you have a much wider vertical field of view, things like landing the Huey and air refueling becomes much much much easier. The lack of depth on a monitor really makes refueling harder than it is. I used to constantly check my instruments to see how fast I was going, how fast I was descending etc. But now, I can just "feel" it like you would in the real word.

 

I thought it was going to be a novelty. Turns out, I was wrong. I use my 34" Asus monitor for setting up controls, etc. I used to have triple 1920x180 and two 8" MFD monitors. They are all gone now. I gave my TrackIR to someone in the forum. There's just no going back to 2D for me. Even though the resolution could be better (DCS on 4K is very pretty), it's still VR or bust for me. But again, not trying to convince anyone to buy a VR HMD. I'm just trying to explain what VR did for me.

Edited December 30, 2017 by hansangb

[hannibal]

BST added two separate axes (horiz./vert.) for the door gunners quite some time ago. I haven't tried it out, yet, but looks as if you are not limited to TrackIR + Mouse anymore.

 

OMG...

you gave me the best news all dayyyyyy!

 

i havent tried UH-1H in a few months being that there were so many updates, and new aircraft modules..

 

im going to install my UH-1H to confirm.

if this is a good, then i will test to see if my idea will work to build the doorgun controls.

and if it does, i draw up plans.

 

but it wont be until if multi-slot /seat implemented for the UH-1 (like the L39) that i will begin constructing.

(it doesnt make sense for me to build a doorgun control without multiseat because i would have to physically get out of my cyclic collective controls and walk over to the door gun setup.. doorgunner needs to be a dedicate multiplayer slot.. )

[hannibal]

It won't work. Joystick can't be mapped to those parameters. Yet another non-feature.

:doh::cry_2::cry_2:

 

yup.

just found that out.

more investigations.

i feel like those axis commands are tied to mouse or trackIR.

just trying to find the stupid .lua files that includes the actual parameters that should be in the input folder.

installed notepad++..

will check back..

[Holton181]

It won't work. Joystick can't be mapped to those parameters. Yet another non-feature.

Just wondering, wouldn't it be possible to do something like funkyfranky have done for the Viggen?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3031175

Even if his work is for buttons, if we have access to analog mouse axes can't we do something similar to be able to map joystick axis to it?

I'm no LUA coder so I don't know what limitations we got here.