Multi-crew for one huey implemented or not?

[shagrat]

Let's recapitulate:

 

A module is released with an announced feature to be included. More than 4 years later, still without the feature or any explanation (despite buyers asking) the dev appears and, without showing or releasing or any form of alpha or beta, says that it will be a matter of months IF no showstoppers appear. And for some reason some of you are very grateful for that.

Well, actually they announced a feature that was available on release, the option for multicrew as in switch between multiple crew stations.

With that announcement they said that at a later(!) point they hope to include Multicrew for multiplayer, depending on the multicrew feature being available in DCS and that it is something they need to develop.

 

Now, we finally arrive at a point in time where rudimentary multicrew is supported by DCS in multiplayer, the sync issues being fixed and the overall performance enhanced. They work on implementing a really good working multicrew and try to solve problems like switch positions being set different on multicrew, control switch etc. rather than simply throwing a "move the gun and fire"-is-all-you-can-do multicrew Co-Pilot feature at us...

 

So yes, I am very happy, EDs netcode is improved towards multiplayer-multicrew, and Belsimtek is taking the effort to go for a perfect, rather than a simple solution and invests into improving this feature, currently.

 

And as a bonus, they seem to do a general overhaul and add new features to the Huey for free.

 

Thanks for that Belsimtek.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Post of the weekend.

 

Thanks Shagrat.

[WolfK33]

Belsimtek is taking the effort to go for a perfect, rather than a simple solution

 

And as solution so far we see separation of available commands for pilot and co-pilot with which we are working right now.

 

 

 

Well, I beg to differ a bit on this one. A perfect solution would be that every Pilot/Player could control every switch etc. that he could reach in real life. So both pilots/players sitting in front could for example change radio frequencies.

The above reads more like "Left pilot can control radios, right pilot can control countermeasures" etc., like it is in the Gazelle. While this if it is planned like that is most probably not a "simple" solution it is far from a "perfect" solution.

[Cibit]

Post of the weekend.

 

Thanks Shagrat.

 

Indeed thanks Thomas your way more eloquent than I, even though English is your second language :thumbup:

[shagrat]

Well, I beg to differ a bit on this one. A perfect solution would be that every Pilot/Player could control every switch etc. that he could reach in real life. So both pilots/players sitting in front could for example change radio frequencies.

The above reads more like "Left pilot can control radios, right pilot can control countermeasures" etc., like it is in the Gazelle. While this if it is planned like that is most probably not a "simple" solution it is far from a "perfect" solution.

You are right, but if you read Belsimteks post they seem to work on enhancing this. What we have in the Gazelle is the first iteration of a multicrew support still with flaws and room for improvement.

 

As BST said if they don't hit major obstacles they try to go beyond that...

 

Syncing the pilot control inputs (cyclic, collective, rudder) is the real challenge.

 

If they together with ED can get this working over network connections, that is what I would call perfect.

 

Good, as in good enough for me, would be the option to give control over the switches to your human copilot by pressing a key. E.g. after the copilot fiddled with the radio frequencies, he can press a button and immediately the pilot can control all switches again.

 

This would be necessary only for everything in reach of the subsequent pilot, of course. So mainly pedestal and overhead console...

 

Anyway I am happy that BST takes the time to do it as good as possible in the process, even if I hate to wait for this to come, as I would love to join with a buddy in the same Huey.

[hansangb]

Let's recapitulate:

 

A module is released with an announced feature to be included. More than 4 years later, still without the feature or any explanation (despite buyers asking) the dev appears and, without showing or releasing or any form of alpha or beta, says that it will be a matter of months IF no showstoppers appear. And for some reason some of you are very grateful for that.

 

 

They had to wait for ED to implement so they were at the mercy of ED fixing thecode (as others have pointed out). The product is still in beta - or is GA now? - so there's no reason to release another beta. But they (Belsimtek) have been beyond horrible about communicating things to their customers. Even a "no update this month" would have worked.

 

So I don't fault them except for their lack of communication. That seems to have changed so let's hope it stays that way.

 

But even as is, I *love* flying the Huey. That and A10C are my favorites.

[PeaceSells]

Well, actually they announced a feature that was available on release, the option for multicrew as in switch between multiple crew stations.

With that announcement they said that at a later(!) point they hope to include Multicrew for multiplayer, depending on the multicrew feature being available in DCS and that it is something they need to develop.

 

Now, we finally arrive at a point in time where rudimentary multicrew is supported by DCS in multiplayer, the sync issues being fixed and the overall performance enhanced. They work on implementing a really good working multicrew and try to solve problems like switch positions being set different on multicrew, control switch etc. rather than simply throwing a "move the gun and fire"-is-all-you-can-do multicrew Co-Pilot feature at us...

 

So yes, I am very happy, EDs netcode is improved towards multiplayer-multicrew, and Belsimtek is taking the effort to go for a perfect, rather than a simple solution and invests into improving this feature, currently.

 

And as a bonus, they seem to do a general overhaul and add new features to the Huey for free.

 

Thanks for that Belsimtek.

 

You realize you just thanked them for nothing, right?

 

I believe in giving positive feedback when it's due, and also negative (within limits) when it's also due. Not my intention to argue with other players (they are clients just like me).

 

I have to say though, everyone has the right to be thankful to whatever they think they should, but that's not the way to stimulate good posture from the companies.

[shagrat]

You realize you just thanked them for nothing, right?

.

What people do you think did develop the whole dual-cockpit stuff? The 3rd parties and ED actually work together... and these things are no 15 lines of java code and done with it.

They actually need to develop these things from scratch.

[JLX]

Overdue or not I'm still very grateful for the news! I'm so looking forward to trying multi-crew out.

 

One thing I'm curious about: if you have Combined Arms will the co-pilot/gunner be able to use JTAC binoculars to spot/mark targets?

 

I'd love to be able to use the Huey as a command heli where the copilot could switch between these two roles as I fly. There is a guy in our group who only does JTAC/FAC with some vehicle shooting. Being able to fly around together with him gunning and marking targets would be fantastic!

 

Anybody have any info on this?

 

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk

[shagrat]

Overdue or not I'm still very grateful for the news! I'm so looking forward to trying multi-crew out.

 

One thing I'm curious about: if you have Combined Arms will the co-pilot/gunner be able to use JTAC binoculars to spot/mark targets?

 

I'd love to be able to use the Huey as a command heli where the copilot could switch between these two roles as I fly. There is a guy in our group who only does JTAC/FAC with some vehicle shooting. Being able to fly around together with him gunning and marking targets would be fantastic!

 

Anybody have any info on this?

 

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk

I am speculating now, so no guarantee, but it seems unlikely. But(!) you can already use the "manual recon mode" together with fog of war.

Manual recon is, when you right click the mouse, get a red crosshair and mark a spotted enemy vehicle, it shows on the F10 map...

 

The "zoom" axis could work as binoculars (sure you miss the scale and LRF), but when the FAC in the co-pilot seat would use zoom, observe the lay of the land and pinpoint the target on the F10 map, or use a printed map to get a grid coordinate, that would be very close to 60ies to 80ies FAC in a Helo.

[JLX]

I am speculating now, so no guarantee, but it seems unlikely. But(!) you can already use the "manual recon mode" together with fog of war.

Manual recon is, when you right click the mouse, get a red crosshair and mark a spotted enemy vehicle, it shows on the F10 map...

 

The "zoom" axis could work as binoculars (sure you miss the scale and LRF), but when the FAC in the co-pilot seat would use zoom, observe the lay of the land and pinpoint the target on the F10 map, or use a printed map to get a grid coordinate, that would be very close to 60ies to 80ies FAC in a Helo.

 

I agree that multicrew JTAC unlikely which is a shame. Let's hope we're wrong :-)

 

Thanks for mentioning the visual recon mode as I'd never used it before. While it seems like it was designed specifically for what I was asking about (contributing to a tactical overview for someone in a command role) I found it cumbersome to use.

 

Admittedly I only tried it briefly but when the cursor is pointed below the horizon it disappears! This makes selecting the unit you wish to spot very difficult. Above the horizon, I get fine black crosshairs, but not below. It seems like the intent is to aim in the general direction of the unit and the software will search for a valid target.

 

In my case, there were several units close together and while it did find (and announce) 1, no icon appeared on the tactical map (I have Combined Arms but was in a pilot role at the time). I tried spotting again to declare all the units but was unable to.

 

Regardless, thanks for the info. I'm going to spend a bit more time playing with the feature and see if I can get it to work better for our needs. Cheers.

[shagrat]

I agree that multicrew JTAC unlikely which is a shame. Let's hope we're wrong :-)

 

Thanks for mentioning the visual recon mode as I'd never used it before. While it seems like it was designed specifically for what I was asking about (contributing to a tactical overview for someone in a command role) I found it cumbersome to use.

 

Admittedly I only tried it briefly but when the cursor is pointed below the horizon it disappears! This makes selecting the unit you wish to spot very difficult. Above the horizon, I get fine black crosshairs, but not below. It seems like the intent is to aim in the general direction of the unit and the software will search for a valid target.

 

In my case, there were several units close together and while it did find (and announce) 1, no icon appeared on the tactical map (I have Combined Arms but was in a pilot role at the time). I tried spotting again to declare all the units but was unable to.

 

Regardless, thanks for the info. I'm going to spend a bit more time playing with the feature and see if I can get it to work better for our needs. Cheers.

To make this work, the F10 map needs to be in Fog-of-War mode, as far as I remember.

If you "spot" an enemy unit its icon should appear on the map and stop updating/fade out after a while when you have lost line of sight.

What you can still do is use good old map and terrain comparison and put a marker (the red circle) on the F10 map with "4 T-72B, face N, behind treeline" in the text box, that will pop up on the F10 map for all your coalition...

As it has a default callsign and timestamp added, it gives your side a good idea where to look, and for what enemy. :)

[hannibal]

Hi guys! Multicrew was one of the topics we wanted to roll out as news article, but since you are active here recently, we will address it here.

 

First of all we want to say that we don't want to run from what we said. Multicrew will be done and its progressing. Yes it taking its time and we can only be grateful for your patience! :worthy:

 

Things with helicopter multicrew are not exactly same as in, for instance, L-39. It is because L-39 have two separate cockpits, therefore two clients have each their own accessible controls to fiddle with. But its changing when you have two guys at the same cockpit and both of them have access to whole cockpit, things are getting tricky that way and we tried to dance around those issues we faced. And as solution so far we see separation of available commands for pilot and co-pilot with which we are working right now.

 

As of now we have implementation for multicrew and we are testing it and resolving surfaced issues. Testing process taking its toll, it should go through different testers ours and ED..

 

At this point we think its a matter of months until multicrew patch for Huey will go live, if no critical showstopper issues will appear.

 

Besides that, there is more changes for UH-1H, that are coming even sooner... You will hear about them soon..

 

PLEASE PLEASE HAVE SOME FOCUS FOR THE DOOR GUNNERS!!! I HOPE THAT there will be

1) individual multiplayer slots for doorgunner positions (not just copilot)

2) independent axis commands for the door guns (that would be unrelated to view port)

 

the last time i played the doorgunner in virtual reality, it was like the doorgun was stuck to my face, because the camera view was locked on to the weapon.

the current implementation has not oly that the doorgun stuck to my face, but even worse when you zoom in on the doorgun sights. PLEASE SEPARATE the doorgun from the camera view.

my wish is to:BUILD a door gunner controller!!!! to complete a build of a pit to include heli controls (collective & cyclic) [already built] , and the door gunner is the missing link..

if there was independent axis commands, i would like to naturally look down the sights of the M60D / M134D and control it with a joystick/mouse while freely looking around. (which would be amazing if implemented)

 

 

THANK YOU BELSIMTEK for hearing me out, and making uh-1h possible

Edited November 28, 2017 by hannibal

[Cowboy10uk]

PLEASE PLEASE HAVE SOME FOCUS FOR THE DOOR GUNNERS!!! I HOPE THAT there will be

1) individual multiplayer slots for doorgunner positions (not just copilot)

2) independent axis commands for the door guns (that would be unrelated to view port)

 

the last time i played the doorgunner in virtual reality, it was like the doorgun was stuck to my face, because the camera view was locked on to the weapon.

the current implementation has not oly that the doorgun stuck to my face, but even worse when you zoom in on the doorgun sights. PLEASE SEPARATE the doorgun from the camera view.

my wish is to:BUILD a door gunner controller!!!! to complete a build of a pit to include heli controls (collective & cyclic) [already built] , and the door gunner is the missing link..

if there was independent axis commands, i would like to naturally look down the sights of the M60D / M134D and control it with a joystick/mouse while freely looking around. (which would be amazing if implemented)

 

 

THANK YOU BELSIMTEK for hearing me out, and making uh-1h possible

 

:O wow, now that would be bloody amazing. :thumbup:

[hannibal]

:O wow, now that would be bloody amazing. :thumbup:

 

i hope someone in belsimtek is listening!

Cowboy10uk, would you be my pilot? :yay:

[shagrat]

:O wow, now that would be bloody amazing.

I can't say for VR-Glasses but I can move the view independent from the mouse with trackIR...?

[Shadow KT]

Hopefully the co-pilot gets a better "box" to move his head around and zoom in more. Pretty much make his move box the same as the pilot one, and also make it possible for the pilot to look over the central panel

[Holton181]

I can't say for VR-Glasses but I can move the view independent from the mouse with trackIR...?

Indeed, I did it yesterday with trackIR. But I needed to press RShift+T to go from "head-guning" to "mouse-aming-with-detached-head-movement"

For you VR guys, try this key combination and tell us if it worked.

[hansangb]

I'll be able to test this weekend - unless someone else gives it a shot before then. It's pretty fun shooting with VR and using your head to aim though. Kind of like what Apache guys have! :) (this is for the door guns)

[Cowboy10uk]

i hope someone in belsimtek is listening!

Cowboy10uk, would you be my pilot? :yay:

 

:megalol: you wouldn’t be saying that if you’ve ever seen me fly. :thumbup:

 

Cowboy10uk

[Sandman1330]

So, I noticed something interesting in the 1.5 Open Beta today...

 

I've only recently "upgraded" to the beta for the Harrier. I decided to try flying in the Huey off of the Tarawa.... and look what I found in the options for the Huey in the ME. I'm not sure how long it's been there, but I just noticed it.

 

 

I don't know if it means it's coming soon, but it definitely means it's not dead...

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sandman1330

[hannibal]

going to re-iterate..

 

please! please belsimtek!

1) individual multiplayer slots for doorgunner positions (not just copilot)

2) independent axis commands for the door guns (that would be unrelated to view port)

[hannibal]

I can't say for VR-Glasses but I can move the view independent from the mouse with trackIR...?

 

i am hoping that there will independent axis commands for the door guns in future updates so i can map a joystick with x and y axis

[Holton181]

About aming and viewing, a few posts from the end:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196932

[hannibal]

About aming and viewing, a few posts from the end:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196932

 

We know that u can aim the doorgun with the mouse while looking independently looking around with trackIR.

 

MY QUESTION IS:

Can you map the x and y axis of the doorgun to a joystick AND being able to control the doorgun with a joystick while independently looking around with Oculus Rift/htc vive.