Ace Combat...more realistic???

[upyr1]

Basically all he's saying though is that in the hog (that he has hundeds of hours in) he knows where everything is, in LOMAC (that he has half an hour in) he couldn't remember the shortcut key combinations & in Ace Combat he didn't have to remember the shortcut keys 'cause the game does everything for you..

By that logic GTR with all the driving aids on is a more realistic sim than with them off.

This sums up the issue in a real hog he knows were every thing is by memory there may be some things he can't rememebr becuse he hasnb't used them in a long time...

[RvETito]

I would say that it's all about how the pilots are looking at their work. If a pilot is satisfied of just pressing buttons by heart and "drive" the damn thing he is nothing more than a driver and his skills are really doubtful and it's not very likely for him to reach skill level above the average. And I believe that many of the pilots, be they civil or military, are of that kind, unfortunately... But if he has open and researchful mind and respects everything concerning his job then he has the opportunity to master the flying.

The system gives equal start to both characters, and it depends on each one of them how much each could take.

[D-Scythe]

If a pilot is satisfied of just pressing buttons by heart and "drive" the damn thing he is nothing more than a driver and his skills are really doubtful and it's not very likely for him to reach skill level above the average.

 

Um, you're wrong. A pilot gifted with situational awareness and good "hands" (or the ability to "drive" the "damn thing" as you put it) would have much higher survivablity than one who knows the technical ins and outs of his own jet (i.e. this is how you access the ADI page on your MFD; the MFD is blah blah blah and is linked to blah blah blah).

 

I agree with the A-10 pilot in the article to a certain extent. The cry for realism lately seems to be centred around how many buttons you can push/MFD pages you can access, when in reality a game (yes, it is a game) like LOMAC or Falcon 4 should focus more on the application of realistic tactics/maneuvers in a (hypothetical) engagement against either other fighters or ground forces.

 

To illustrate, IMO, I think fixing BVR missiles so that higher = more range and chaff = less effective against doppler missiles is much more important than a clickable cockpit. I'd rather lose the pit than see an AMRAAM I launched in its no-escape zone be trashed by a barely evading target. Being able to dance in another's NEZ envelope is not representative of realistic tactics.

[GGTharos]

You need to know everything about your jet, -and- be a good driver.

 

Doing A2A in LOMAC is mostly watching the radar a bit, and looking out the canopy A LOT while avoiding the mistake of flying in a straight line.

[D-Scythe]

You need to know everything about your jet...

 

To an extent. You don't need to know the general principles of how the air conditioning works, or how much thrust the rocket in your ejection seat produces.

[Guest IguanaKing]

AirTito, its called flying on "stem power". "Stem" refers to the brain stem, flying and operating the jet and its systems need to be second nature. This way, the pilot's brain is free to concentrate on the fight and the situation outside his aircraft. I've got lots of hours operating all kinds of different aircraft systems, but I couldn't sit down and explain to you how to operate those systems...that's because I do it all on memory and the cognitive process is no longer involved.

[GGTharos]

To an extent. You don't need to know the general principles of how the air conditioning works, or how much thrust the rocket in your ejection seat produces.

 

Nitpicker ;)

[bflagg]

Most pilots don't know how their planes work, and don't do any maintentance. Some don't even understand why their planes fly.

They are just trained to use them.

 

You need to know how LockOn works, and you need to set everything correctly for yourself. I kinda understand that guy..

 

I had a fighter pilot sittin at my desk and tryin to figure out how to fly in LockOn, and he also didn't like it (to fly actually), so he just watched how I do it. This is the harsh diffrence between real cockpit and toy hotas+keyboard.

 

It seems that A-1o pilot didn't want to waste his time to learn LockOn controls and set everything up, so he fired up his PS2 and played flight sim on gamepad, lol :)

 

A-10 has really bad flight model in LockOn; but less realistic then Ace Combat lol! I think that guy didn't know what he's talking about, really.

 

 

my original posted edited for clarity....

 

why bother?

[D-Scythe]

Nitpicker ;)

 

Haha, well, you did say everything needs to be known about your jet :p

[GGTharos]

Right down to the amount of pressure that goes into putting the bolts on the thing! ;)

[peterj]

Edit: As far as not being able to compare because real pilots cant "feel the aircraft" in a sim. "Feel the aircraft" will get you into more trouble than not. Essentially, pilots ignore what they feel when they fly, rather cross check instruments to make sure the plane is behaving the way its supposed to.

I'm familiar with the risks of relying on what you feel. This was in context visual landings, and what iv'e heard from the pilots at g-kraft.com feeling the aircraft gives useful information, depending on it might not the be right word tho :)

[Hawg11]

On a side note. The graphics are becoming more and more realistic for console games.

Check out the heat blur in this one.

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1286/full-res/1123678122.jpg

Another nice shot:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/651/651836/WorldAirforce_Xbox360_TGS2005_4_1126972501.jpg

[SUBS17]

FCs still better:icon_supe , and BS will no doubt be even better than that.

[airea]

On a side note. The graphics are becoming more and more realistic for console games.

Check out the heat blur in this one.

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1286/full-res/1123678122.jpg

Another nice shot:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/651/651836/WorldAirforce_Xbox360_TGS2005_4_1126972501.jpg

 

 

Were those screenshots??:)

They are amazing...

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

What is it that they say?

 

Takes a Ph.D to design it

Takes a Bachelors degree to build it

Takes 4 years of college to fly it

Takes a High School diploma to fix it...

 

and takes a retard to shoot it down. :p

[nscode]

AirTito, its called flying on "stem power". "Stem" refers to the brain stem, flying and operating the jet and its systems need to be second nature. This way, the pilot's brain is free to concentrate on the fight and the situation outside his aircraft. I've got lots of hours operating all kinds of different aircraft systems, but I couldn't sit down and explain to you how to operate those systems...that's because I do it all on memory and the cognitive process is no longer involved.

 

True storry: Comat situation. F-15 pilot has a SAM goint towords him. He doesn't jettisen fuel tanks becouse he can't find the button in the dark. He forgets to close AB and lights the sky so he's a nice clear target for AAA. With pure luck he lives to tell us the tail.

 

Stem underpower? :horseback

[sumoscouse]

I am sure he does find flying the A10 is simple, much like I find playing complex guitar pieces as simple after over 20 years of practice and training.

 

 

Rastus - I am a budding noobie to the guitar scene (been playing around 2.5 years - I would really appreciate any useful resources or info you have on advancing my technique LOVE THE GUITAR play it everywhere i go - even the loo !!! HA HA HA

 

 

 

 

Cheers Matey

 

 

SumoScouse Out :cool:

[Hawg11]

True storry: Comat situation. F-15 pilot has a SAM goint towords him. He doesn't jettisen fuel tanks becouse he can't find the button in the dark. He forgets to close AB and lights the sky so he's a nice clear target for AAA. With pure luck he lives to tell us the tail.

 

So, where can I read about this story?

[bflagg]

play it everywhere i go - even the loo !!! HA HA HA

 

Cheers Matey

 

SumoScouse Out :cool:

 

I hope your not just plucking your "G" string... ???

 

I play too, but am at a rut on where to go next with it..... I would consider myself a beginner for 5 years...

[Kula66]

nscode ... is that in the book about Strike Eagles in GW1?

Very scary ... they all over-G'ed their planes on the first mission ... made me laugh! A number almost crashed into the ground evading SAMs ... a good read.

 

It prompted a question of mine re: being able to spot SAM launches from 30'000 ... they seem do spot them easily, in LO its not so easy!

[nscode]

So, where can I read about this story?

 

It's on the net somewhere.. Think it was a NATO site, but not sure.. maybe even a site about F-117's, can't remamber now and got no time to find :(

 

nscode ... is that in the book about Strike Eagles in GW1?

 

no.. Serbia, '99.

[Hawg11]

It's on the net somewhere.. Think it was a NATO site, but not sure.. maybe even a site about F-117's, can't remamber now and got no time to find :(

 

K, then.

[yamangman]

I fly professionally, and although i havent flown an A-10 or F-15, i tend to agree with "Beef" Manning.

 

Yet, i also agree with some of you simmers. If the A-10 in Lock On was used in an A-10 Level D sim, he would find it more realistic. But the same could be said for PS2 Ace Combat. Any software used with correct functionality in a Level D will be more realistic than how we use the game presently. That is why most simmers dump thousands on building their home simulators.

 

 

Some things that remind me Lock On is a game, and far from being a sim.

 

NAV functionality definitely needs work. Cant even turn the OBS on the HSI.

 

Fire protection is non-existent. You need to eject with an engine fire. No bottles.

 

F-15C WAY underpowered. Most jets i have flown will accelerate with 100% thrust at gross weight (MTOW non-AB) on climb-out. The F-15C is lucky to get a few degrees pitch up at MTOW (max take off weight) and maintain airspeed above stall (definitely doesnt accelerate). At lower weights, it performs more like a civilian jet (will accelerate in climb).

 

To give you an example, one jet i flew had 34,500 as MTOW and 6000lbs of thrust per side. We could roll that thing back to 15-20 deg pitch up and accelerate. Basically a 1:3 power to weight ratio. At 30,000 lbs, we could roll that thing back to "the cheverons" and climb direct to 10,000 feet off the deck at V2 without breaking a sweat.

 

The F-15C has 23,450lbs per side with MTOW 68,000lbs. Thats almost a 1:1 power to weight ratio. It cant get out of its own way with 20 deg pitch up. Rolling in the AB helps a bit... but sure seems underpowered. I can only imagine what a V1 cut would be like at MTOW... better have enough runway........ lol

 

Still an awesome game, and im addicted....:icon_supe

 

But definitely not a simulator....

 

edited for typos

 

 

Did it not ever strike you that the civ plane you were flying had rather different lift-enhancing wings?

[RvETito]

... A pilot gifted with situational awareness and good "hands" (or the ability to "drive" the "damn thing" as you put it) would have much higher survivablity than one who knows the technical ins and outs of his own jet (i.e. this is how you access the ADI page on your MFD; the MFD is blah blah blah and is linked to blah blah blah)

 

Higher survivability? I dont' think so...

 

I guess I wasn't clear enough. Many pilots don't have good SA and "good hands" as you say, and they are proud to announce themselves being the best. Which is far from the truth. The higher knowledge you mentioned is really not needed for the average pilot. It is required for test pilots, but this is another story.

 

I'll put an example. As other people here I'm also an aircraft engineer(civil aviation) and I have daily contacts with pilots. They all fly very well- making ILS approaches and successful landings in extreme weather when better equipped planes are grounded, they fly overloaded planes, they climb faster than the competition and so on... But I don't think this makes the good pilot. What about if the equipment fails, what about the service life of the aircraft? Not to mention that in most cases they can't determine a malfuntion when it happens. Simply because they are not aware enough of how the systems and equipment works. They have the "good hands", but how could this help'em when there's an emergency situation, not troubleshooted in the flight manual. What decision will make a pilot(who flies like nobody else) in case of emergency when there's a limited and/or contradicting information if he doesn't know how the aircraft work in details?

 

So my point is that to have a good SA and "good hands" one must have a good knowledge, which should be the tool to achieve the goal. And the good knowledge is precious in non-standart situation, it saves life;).

[RvETito]

AirTito, its called flying on "stem power". "Stem" refers to the brain stem, flying and operating the jet and its systems need to be second nature. This way, the pilot's brain is free to concentrate on the fight and the situation outside his aircraft. I've got lots of hours operating all kinds of different aircraft systems, but I couldn't sit down and explain to you how to operate those systems...that's because I do it all on memory and the cognitive process is no longer involved.

 

Same here...

 

I agree that the pilot should constantly have just the basic information about the flight and system parameters in order to ficus on the task but what if a sudden malfunction occurs? Then he'll be glad to have the brains trained.