Landing MIG-21

[Razorback]

Hi,

 

Since few days I perform a lot of landing mission with the MIG-21 and for sure it´s not always a success story ! :(

 

I respect all the advices during approach and landing:

- speed between 400 and 300 Km/Hr just before landing

- Full flaps

- aircarft nose just under the treshold during the approach

 

But despite all these points and a rate of descend around 5m/s or less, most of my landings are very hard when I touch the runway.

 

Advices or hints and tips are welcome !

 

Thx

Chris

[26-J39]

Decent rate of 5m/s is way too high for my liking, I'd suggest smooth that out to a 1 or 2.

Bear in mind i'm sure the suspension dynamics need to be tweaked..

[DocSigma]

Go a little faster. It also sounds like your pretty steep -being able to get your nose below threshhold - on the landing. I've noticed that in this jet when on the proper PRMG glide slope for landing, I'm pretty shallow and blind on approach - nose blocks my view of the runway. It seems wrong, expecially when moving pretty fast, but the smoothest landings I've been able to make is that way. Anyway, I'm sure i'm doing it wrong, but that seems to work for me, but I'd definitely say that speed on landing in the 21 is your friend here...and the chute! Hope what I said helps a little.

[King_Hrothgar]

I try to touch down at 1-2 m/s and about 300-325km/h. It's still an unsettling experience, but I rarely damage the plane now. What makes it so unsettling to me is the AoA and just how high I have the nose pointed. It's unlike anything else I've played in a CFS. It helps to keep the power on the whole time. I couldn't tell you what my throttle setting is, but it's definitely over 50%. I have yet to dead stick land it without taking damage.

[xxJohnxx]

Also have a look at your fuel (weight).

If you have no external loads 700L of fuel is the most you want to have aboard for a save (within the design limits) landing.

If you carry any external load like two AA-missiles, fuel tanks, etc. the maximum fuel you should have for landing is 500L. This will already be an overweight landing, but doable.

Loads like 2xFAB250, 8xFAB100 have to be jettisoned before attempting to land, because they are just to heavy.

[504smudge]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the wheels don't sit on top of the tarmac, they are clipped just below the runway/taxi way.. i'm wondering if this is causing a lot of the problems with ground handling?

[pj]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the wheels don't sit on top of the tarmac, they are clipped just below the runway/taxi way.. i'm wondering if this is causing a lot of the problems with ground handling?

 

I've noticed this after landing, there's also a nasty grinding sound like something is dragging... like the time my car dropped the muffler!

[xxJohnxx]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the wheels don't sit on top of the tarmac, they are clipped just below the runway/taxi way.. i'm wondering if this is causing a lot of the problems with ground handling?

 

The visible 3D modell has probably very little to do with the ground handling. Not completly sure but I think there is an seperate collision/contact modell that handles that.

 

I've noticed this after landing, there's also a nasty grinding sound like something is dragging... like the time my car dropped the muffler!

 

That sounds like a tail strike that can happen during takeoff and landing if you have high pitch angles close to the ground. During landing that usually means that you are comming in too slow, therfore you will be at a high pitch angle causing your tail to hit the ground. During takeoff that means that you are rotating too fast or at too slow speeds.

[King_Hrothgar]

You can also pop the tires, that will result in a grinding sound too.

[anlq]

Keep the plane flying level above runway at minimum speed and let it lands itself.

 

Good luck !

[Vinny002]

Hi, guys!

 

I'm having a very hard landing the mig-21. When I land I hit the ground too hard, the plane bounce I think about 50 feet into the air, hit the ground, the plane flipped over. How do I set the SAU for the ILS and auto land? And how do I program the 2 buttons on the joystick for the throttle which it will make landing a little easier than now which I have to reach over to the NUM -/NUM + keys to adjust the throttle? Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[Art-J]

You might want to re-read part of the manual related to the autopilot. SAU and PRMG were never designed to auto-land the plane. They can only get you close to the runway treshold, but at about 100 m of altitude (or higher I'd say) you have to take over and land yourself.

 

As for your joystick, well, you now your hardware better than we (especially when you didn't tell us what model you use). If you have a hat-switch on it to spare, you can try to assign throttle +/- to it.

[Razorback]

Mmmmm for my landing training I am starting just near the base with a full fuel of 3000 liters, no weapons.

Maybe am I still too heavy for a soft landing?

I will tried the same mission with 500 liters of fuel.

[xxJohnxx]

Mmmmm for my landing training I am starting just near the base with a full fuel of 3000 liters, no weapons.

Maybe am I still too heavy for a soft landing?

I will tried the same mission with 500 liters of fuel.

 

Yes you are exeeding the maximum landing weight by 2300L of fuel which equals about 1800kgs. That's is way out of safe operating limits.

[TurboHog]

Note speed, AOA, RPM.

 

In fact, I was too heavy for this landing (1800L fuel). Hence touchdown speed was a little high (340 km/h). Anyway, I don't think anyone has ever made a softer touchdown...

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Your approach speed needs to be less than 360km/h as the BLC system doesn't operate above this speed. Otherwise, very nice.

[xxJohnxx]

A real ex-mig pilot suggested to fly the approach with 320-340km/h and touch down with 270-290km/h

[tomcatter]

From my little experience I would say that the most part of us, me for sure, are forgetting the plane´s weight at landing, and having problems because that.

On my first days I didn´t make the maths to land within the weight limits of the aircraft, and I was having troubles with her when landing, I overshoot the runway or bounce all over the place, usually I end exploding on one side of the runway....

After reviewing on the forum some good landings I realize that I was always too heavy, I begin to do some calculations about the fuel and since then all my landings are smooth and without the jumpy-burning thing¡¡¡

Like xxJohnxx said before stick to this and you will be alright:

 

No more than 500L with two AA missiles and empty fuel tanks.

No more than 700L with no external stores.

 

If you are coming with more fuel than that, just establish a pattern near the airfield to burn the extra weight.

[Razorback]

I have just done 4 landings with max 1000 L of fuel and no weapons !

What a difference ! :thumbup:

All landings were smooth and perfect !

 

Thx a lot for your advices gents !!!

Have fun...Chris

[GUMAR]

Classic "school landing" with keeping aircraft on glideslope. On final just before middle marker.

No attempts to land softly, just making it "not hard".

[Vinny002]

Hi, art-j!

 

I'm using the Logictech attack 3 joystick. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[Vinny002]

Hi, guys!

 

Now that I know how to navigate using the RSBN navigation radio. I'm at Krasnodar airbase which is channel 3, I have the RSBN navigation radio on channel 4 because channel 3 doesn't work. To tune the RSBN navigation radio for the ILS landing, I set the RSBN navigation radio channel to 4 and the SAU autopilot will guild me down to around 100 meters or 328 feet, right? Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[DocSigma]

You set the PRMG dial to the proper airfield channel and then move the mode switch ( on the forward cockpit panel) from the nav postion to the landing position in order to pick up the indications on the ADF; I think then SAU will get the glide slope info to fly; but, you have to enable the jet to receive it first for it to work.

[Vinny002]

Hi, DocSigma!

 

Thanks! I'll give a try!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[Tek]

Uff, most of my landings have also been quite heavy. I have been trying to pull up to a 1-2m/s descent just before the ground but then I often end up flying to far down the runway and have to go around.

 

Stupidly I tried to do the PRMG landing instant action mission to practice. That was one of the scariest things i have ever done (yes i have not lived much :P). After the first go around I found myself back in the clouds at 800m, very disorientated I looked down at my instruments to find I was descending at 30m/s and my ground collision warning starts blaring. I look at my AGL to see I'm rapidly approaching 100m.

 

I used instruments to regain some sense of direction (by flapping the stick around in a panic) and managed to get back on the glide slope. Finally out of the clouds I see the runway and bank sharply, airbrake, flaps and gear. I get to first marker on a good line only to find my engine has cut out as I have run out of fuel. Ejected about 30m above the ground. :doh:

 

I'm still cleaning the S%&t from my pants.

 

edit: oh and xxJohnxx thanks a lot for the videos. They have been a massive help.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Tek