Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[Fri13]

 

Also trimms for me dont do not any notiacble job. The same with alternative timm - with button3 on joy - dont make any change in trimm - i press and hold button move stick then off button - not any noticable change for me ( i got FF stick).

 

I think old Mig29 behave more beliveable to me then new Su27.

 

 

I have Logitech G940 and the trimming works very well, both systems.

 

The normal trimming (up, down, left, right and tailerons) works but it is very small tweaking. You need to hold stick very steady and trim to spot the effect, but it is there.

 

The new trimming is just pure pleasure. FFB effect feels good when you can feel how pneumatics slowly takes the current position as default.

It was easy as after KA-50 where trimming is second nature, the trimmer in Su-27 is similar but just slower instead instant change.

 

Pulling cobra is very easy. Stick needs to be in neutral (new trimmed point) and then S gives smoothly controls and flying so is easy when doing careful moves. Best for me how I use it is I start maneuver and then I disable augmentation to do heavy maneuvers and then I enable it again to let it return plane flight to stable controls.

 

Negative G push happens very easily if either pressing S too early or stick is still little too much forward.

 

I have hard times to get the plane to stall like F-15 that just can't keep in "curves" and wants to dive on the ground.

Su-27 can fly circles around F-15 at any speed and even getting with it [sukhoi] to flat spin there is enough time to recover from it as that plane "floats" down and it is almost faster to get ground with parachute than plane itself

[Pipe]

have to admit that im lovin this thing lol

[Sceptre]

I was playing the campaign and cruising at 1000км/ч when I pressed S by accident... the plane went into a nose dive and crashed...:no_sad:

[NineLine]

I was playing the campaign and cruising at 1000км/ч when I pressed S by accident... the plane went into a nose dive and crashed...:no_sad:

 

Lesson learned right? ;)

[Lizzard]

wow..the Su-27 is now a real challenge to fly..holy...back then when the PFM for the F-15 was introduced I had not that much trouble to keep that bird under control...but the SU-27..man..it enters a flat spin extremly fast..and it is damn hard to recover..so some more flight lessons for me:lol:

[dartuil]

My flanker get its nose high lonely after take-off bug or normal?

I should trim it if normal , right?

[SimFreak]

My flanker get its nose high lonely after take-off bug or normal?

I should trim it if normal , right?

 

Right when you rotate and set desired pitch, your finger should be running trim to relieve force. Any time you change flight parameters, you should be trimming. Bank? trim. Change of power? trim. Climb / descent? Trim.

[dartuil]

Copy.That make me see that I inverse trim down and up.

[Davee]

My flanker get its nose high lonely after take-off bug or normal?

I should trim it if normal , right?

 

I give it nose down trim before starting to roll and that seems to help.

[dartuil]

Will the su-27 have fuel tank like the mig-29?

[Sceptre]

It has very big internal fuel storage

[Fri13]

Well done! Trinkets will be worked and did not diminish what I call a good plane. I'm in love with Su27 again. ;)

 

As for the "S" option, I think it is not intended to be used at high speeds ... but people still use it and we get all these funny things. Maybe we should leave it as it is but only for aerobatic servers. That mean we need ON/OFF option in server settings.

 

As I said: "I'm in love with my Su27!" Again. :)

On/off option to disable Su-27 real functionality?

 

It is a switch that disables flight augmentations and gives pilot a full fly-by-wire control without dampening controls or computer limiting unsafe controls.

 

The many times pasted video:

01:07:30 part to 01:17:00 about implementing the FBW to Su-27.

 

From the 01:25:45 starts the cockpit controls. And at 01:26:30 starts the stick functions (red button is our "S")

 

Building the SU 27 - The Best Fighter Jet in the …:

 

Disabling the augmentation makes the Su-27 dangerous and demanding to fly, and it is "abused" in airshows and combat maneuvers.

 

Disabling that function would only be totally wrong.

 

Just wait that we get G-forces simulated to blow the plane in pieces when they disable dampening and does destructive G-loads.... Some people gave their lives doing so....

[Fri13]

So after many speed runs I still conclude that this thing is too fast, especially high up. Every figure and chart I can find out there shows the F-15C being considerably faster at high altitudes than the Su-27. It was also faster in the SFM, and the F-15 PFM is not much faster than the F-15SFM. If there are heat and stability restrictions on the plane IRL, then they should be reflected in game, as real pilots would not be going that fast. Also, it was stated earlier that the F-15C could go faster (1772mph) with its heat and stability restrictions ignored temporarily, and it cannot come even close to this in game (1696mph) (40K, can only hit 1647mph at 45k, which is odd, because the F-15C pfm page claims a higher speed at 45k vs 40k weird.....)

What is more, I can get some insane speeds under certain conditions. In the track I have posted, I reached 1930 some knots, or 2221+mph(3.3 mach) before the plane stopped accelerating.....because it exploded. Clearly there is something wrong with this aircrafts FM with regards to high speed performance.

I am lucky to even get over 230kph at high altitude (10km only) as even with afterburner by plane wants to drop (empty plane, full fuel, take off from airstrip in 30 degree angle to 10km altitude with 550kph left) and I bleed speed quickly to that range. Weather is default in editor.

 

I highly believe pulling too high angle to up, but even if I lower angle to 15° after 8km because plane starts waving from side to side exactly after 8000m, I can't get higher speed maintained or gained. So I fly below 8km. With a F-15 I can get to 30 000 feet (9.1km) without problems and keep over 250 knots (463kph).

 

These are the word of the advanced beginner on fighters at high altitude.

[Weta43]

Fri13

Starting on the ground with full tanks, but no weapons, if you climb with full AB not at a fixed angle, but so that your speed never goes above, or drops below ~830km/h IAS (if you're too fast, lift the nose, too slow drop the nose), then level out at 10,000m, and see what speed you reach, how do you do ? (either go to BVR mode, or F2 to see TAS if you're interested.)

[dartuil]

Will another fc3 aircraft get PFM?

[Rotorhead]

From the 01:25:45 starts the cockpit controls. And at 01:26:30 starts the stick functions (red button is our "S")

 

Uh, not really I believe. The red button, as I understand it, simply disengages the autopilot - it terminates any A/P mode you might have set earlier (just like it does in MiG-21).

 

Our "S" button is actually a switch located near the throttle.

[mvsgas]

Looking at some of this videos of the SU-27 ( RL)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huXy_9Y8dGc

I was thinking, you guys with force feed back will start looking like Quamire

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp209/ViciousCombover/Quagmire.jpg?t=1258588309

 

I know in the video, the pilots is flying formation and has to constantly adjust, but still

[Lizzard]

Will another fc3 aircraft get PFM?

 

afaik ED said all FC3 Aircraft will get a pfm..but as allways no timeframe:)

[mondo]

I'm enjoying this new flight model. Although it's a little tricky, aerobatics always seem on a knife edge between pulling of a tight maneuver or ending up in a stall or inverted flat spin. Needs allot of trim adjustment through the speed range. It feels like a prop fighter in that respect. It really chews through fuel with afterburner on.

[Fri13]

Uh, not really I believe. The red button, as I understand it, simply disengages the autopilot - it terminates any A/P mode you might have set earlier (just like it does in MiG-21).

 

Our "S" button is actually a switch located near the throttle.

I was wrong, thanks for clarifying that button as I was working based old document I once saw about the FCS.

 

This is the panel (where lights 1-4) that operates Flight-Director. http://i.imgur.com/9MFWE8x.jpg and lights up what axis isn't enabled.

 

The point is, the flight director can be disabled to override flight computer system denying pilot doing control movements that are dangerous at current flight moment.

[Erdem]

I just tried it about half an hour and I'm very frustrated.

 

It's very difficult to handle and tends to stall with engine flame-out very quickly. I'm confused, isn't this plane supposed to handle well? It's the most murderous aircraft I've ever flown in DCS. Especially inverted stalls are irrecoverable since the engines tend to flame out and won't start again in that condition. It just doesn't match up with the reputation of this plane. Even the underpowered and overweight Su-25T feels a lot better than this.

 

It makes flying the F-15C seem like a piece of cake.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Erdem

[NineLine]

I just tried it about half an hour and I'm very frustrated.

 

It's very difficult to handle and tends to stall with engine flame-out very quickly. I'm confused, isn't this plane supposed to handle well? It's the most murderous aircraft I've ever flown in DCS. Especially inverted stalls are irrecoverable since the engines tend to flame out and won't start again in that condition. It just doesn't match up with the reputation of this plane. Even the underpowered and overweight Su-25T feels a lot better than this.

 

It makes flying the F-15C seem like a piece of cake.

 

 

It will take some time to master again, you just need to give yourself some time, go easy, learn to fly it, and work your way up to tougher manoeuvres. Its a whole new beast.

[LJQCN101]

I have not tried the open beta, but for the guys experiencing the flight departures, at what speed are you going? How many negative g? I ask because from what I remember form the translated SU-27SK manual, at ≤300kph, the aircraft is only capable of -.5g, above that it will depart, is that what you guys are seeing?

 

For the guys experiencing lack of control, could you guys be in a deep stall? AFAIK, SU-27, like the F-16 and others, once you enter deep stall it is abit hard to come out off (having AB on or off would not matter)

 

For now, when a departure occurs, the Su-27 can easily enter into an inverted deep stall with constant AOA and no yaw rate. (Yeah, below 300kph.) Some says that it is irrecoverable.

 

Haven't tried the pitch rock technique like in F-16. Maybe it will work I bet.

[plane00]

How shoud I control this aircraft ?

 

Is really this aircraft so unstable?

 

It's like su 27 became another aircraft in this game...

Edited November 12, 2014 by plane00

[NineLine]

Is really this aircraft so unstable?

 

su 27 became another aircraft in this game...

 

It really demands a lot of respect... it really is a completely different aircraft, but once you come to terms with it, she is a lot of fun... by the way I still havent come to terms with her ;)